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Whew/Phew . . . I have my empty nest back.
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<blockquote data-quote="toughlovin" data-source="post: 492537"><p>Several thoughts here. First Kathy I see some real positives in the visit.... and am glad she went back without a problem.</p><p></p><p>Janet I think you are right about the stealing... that describes my difficult child pretty well... he has stolen from us for years, even before the substance abuse but of course that made it much much worse. It is hard for me to imagine ever really trusting him again.... but who knows where he will be in the future.</p><p></p><p>As far as the mood disorder underlying the substance use. I think this is true for many addicts. I think often there is an underlying issue such as depression etc. It certainly complicates things. I know this is true for my son as well... but what I have come to believe is that he needs help on both fronts. I don't think he will be able to conquer his drug addiction without also dealing with the underlying issues of why he feels he needs drugs to numb his feelings or to avoid the world.... but what I have also gotten from his stints in rehab and in psychiatric units is that he can't really deal with underlying mental illness while he is still using and is not sober. You can't really figure out the underlying stuff if you are not sober. So first you have to get sober and then you have to face the reality of what is going on with you.</p><p></p><p>So yeah my son has been told and says the same thing, he is not really an addict, it is his underlying issues that are the problem... and there is some truth to that BUT it does not mean that he can casually use now and then without a problem because he can't. He has to get sober and stay sober before he can deal with the other stuff.</p><p></p><p>So it can be a bit of a catch-22.</p><p></p><p>Also I do consider my son a drug addict. By sigs definiition he is really a substance abuser because as fara s I know he is not phsyically dependent on any drug... I don't believe he has gone through true withdrawel.. he has been in "Detox" but that was a program where everyone who goes there goes through their detox program. However he will use or try anything to get high and has. I think it is has been pure luck and lack of availability that he did not become phsyically addicted. It came up once and I asked him and I think he told me the truth that he has tried snorting heroin twice. We all know how addictive that can be and I think it was just luck that he did not use it more and get addicted to it. I think if he had been able to get it and it was all he could get he would have been hooked on it in a flash. This is what scares me so much I know he is only a small step away from being a full blown heroin addict.</p><p></p><p>So to me although he is not physically addicted he behaves like an addict. He will steal or do whatever he can to get something to get high (including OTC drugs that he can swipe off a drugstore shelf).... and he has been thrown out of one sober house for stealing and then buying spice.... and had to stay longer at one place because someone else used and so he did too...... </p><p></p><p>I am hoping (and seeing some reason for hope) that he is starting to realize himself that he really is an addict.... and i personally don't want to soft pedal it to myself that he is not really an addict becuase he hasn't gone through physical withdrawal. He is an addict and he will only be able to get his life together if he stays sober.... not sure where he is on that realization but at least for now he is sober as far as i know... and we are seeing some signs that he is going in the right direction.</p><p></p><p>It really is a process and we have to look at the positive steps... and maybe early in their recovery they can't see the big picture but really can only see being sober for one day at a time.</p><p></p><p>TL</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="toughlovin, post: 492537"] Several thoughts here. First Kathy I see some real positives in the visit.... and am glad she went back without a problem. Janet I think you are right about the stealing... that describes my difficult child pretty well... he has stolen from us for years, even before the substance abuse but of course that made it much much worse. It is hard for me to imagine ever really trusting him again.... but who knows where he will be in the future. As far as the mood disorder underlying the substance use. I think this is true for many addicts. I think often there is an underlying issue such as depression etc. It certainly complicates things. I know this is true for my son as well... but what I have come to believe is that he needs help on both fronts. I don't think he will be able to conquer his drug addiction without also dealing with the underlying issues of why he feels he needs drugs to numb his feelings or to avoid the world.... but what I have also gotten from his stints in rehab and in psychiatric units is that he can't really deal with underlying mental illness while he is still using and is not sober. You can't really figure out the underlying stuff if you are not sober. So first you have to get sober and then you have to face the reality of what is going on with you. So yeah my son has been told and says the same thing, he is not really an addict, it is his underlying issues that are the problem... and there is some truth to that BUT it does not mean that he can casually use now and then without a problem because he can't. He has to get sober and stay sober before he can deal with the other stuff. So it can be a bit of a catch-22. Also I do consider my son a drug addict. By sigs definiition he is really a substance abuser because as fara s I know he is not phsyically dependent on any drug... I don't believe he has gone through true withdrawel.. he has been in "Detox" but that was a program where everyone who goes there goes through their detox program. However he will use or try anything to get high and has. I think it is has been pure luck and lack of availability that he did not become phsyically addicted. It came up once and I asked him and I think he told me the truth that he has tried snorting heroin twice. We all know how addictive that can be and I think it was just luck that he did not use it more and get addicted to it. I think if he had been able to get it and it was all he could get he would have been hooked on it in a flash. This is what scares me so much I know he is only a small step away from being a full blown heroin addict. So to me although he is not physically addicted he behaves like an addict. He will steal or do whatever he can to get something to get high (including OTC drugs that he can swipe off a drugstore shelf).... and he has been thrown out of one sober house for stealing and then buying spice.... and had to stay longer at one place because someone else used and so he did too...... I am hoping (and seeing some reason for hope) that he is starting to realize himself that he really is an addict.... and i personally don't want to soft pedal it to myself that he is not really an addict becuase he hasn't gone through physical withdrawal. He is an addict and he will only be able to get his life together if he stays sober.... not sure where he is on that realization but at least for now he is sober as far as i know... and we are seeing some signs that he is going in the right direction. It really is a process and we have to look at the positive steps... and maybe early in their recovery they can't see the big picture but really can only see being sober for one day at a time. TL [/QUOTE]
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