which costs more?

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by klmno, Jan 17, 2009.

  1. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Residential Treatment Center (RTC) or state juvy? I can't believe that after what my son did-putting the knives in my face and at my throat that I can't place him in a Residential Treatment Center (RTC) and get county help paying for it. i know I can press charges and he's be turned in to stae juvy (juvy prison) because he's on a suspended sentence for it. But, that was pretty severe for what he's done before. I just wish there was a way to get around this. Shouldn't I have some say-so?
  2. Andy

    Andy Active Member

    Would they charge you (or your insurance) for juvy?

    I know our facility (formerly referred to as Residential Treatment Center (RTC)) for inpatient chemical dependency adolescent unit was about $330 per day. (We just recently dropped the adolescent program and will be adding a pregnant women's program in the new facility).

    Our Residential Treatment Center (RTC) did not have an adolescent mental health unit so I don't know how much it would be. It has been several years since I have been involved in working with the rates of our adult mental health services so I don't know that cost either. For some reason, I am thinking mental health services cost more than the chemical dependency services - but it has been several years and I don't remember for sure.

    You could call the nearest Residential Treatment Center (RTC) and ask for the rate of the adolescent unit(s). That should be public information.
  3. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Thanks, Andy! I wasn't asking because I can afford it- I was asking to saee if maybe that's why the courts would prefer to send difficult child to juvy rather than order Residential Treatment Center (RTC).
  4. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    KLMNO, I've said this before. I follow your trials and tribulations with your son, but very rarely have advice because I just don't know.

    What I DO know, is that there is a special place for you in heaven one day...
  5. Andy

    Andy Active Member

    Maybe another thing to keep in mind is the criteria and purpose of each. Juvy is for criminal purposes and Residential Treatment Center (RTC) is for medical needs. Which area would you like the courts to focus on? I would want to know how far juvy would go to provide the needs of handling difficult child's behavior as a mental health issue.

    I think I have heard that it is hard to get the courts to focus on mental health needs if it is easier to treat things as a crime. We also have learned that difficult children do not respond positively to negative discipline which juvy may well be.

    I don't know which one would be cheaper for the courts if they are footing the bill.

    I am curious though - Do parents of adolescents get charged for juvy?
  6. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member

    k, this is the sad state our difficult children find themselves in when the violence becomes too much. Either they are treated as ill and given help, but most often they are treated as "common" criminals. The deal is that these kids need to be handled in a different manner. Certainly it costs the state less to put a kid in juvy with supervision than it does to place a kid in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) where they are doctors who can address their issues, make recommendations to parents/guardians, adjust medications, and help with a treatment plan when the "gig" is up.

    It must be an incredibly frustrating thing to deal with - after dealing with the frigtening reality that your child really needs help, NOW.

    In our state they are implementing a mental illness court system for, I think, this very reason. I beleive it is a "fallout" from the va tech shooting. If there is a seperate system for folks suffering from mental illness, perhaps these choices won't be so difficult in the future.

    Sorry. I hope the right thing happens for your son.

  7. ML

    ML Guest

    ((((((((((((KLMNO))))))))))) I don't have answers, just tons of support and caring. I am with you in spirit during these difficult times. Love ML
  8. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    BBK: That is so sweet- thank you!

    Andy: My son has been in the county detention center twice which is used for short term stays. I have not been billed. He is already on a suspended sentence to be turned over to state Department of Juvenile Justice, which would place him in a different detention center (basicly, it is juvenile prison). I don't know if they bill parents or not. I think it is up to each jurisdiction.

    I should point out that the "crime spree" that lead him to be in all this trouble was shortly after a doubling of his prozac dosage and is partly what lead to his diagnosis changing from unipolar depression to bipolar. (Att least he experiences mood cycling, whether true BiPolar (BP) or not) The psychiatrist wrote a letter to that effect and it was presented to the judge. It did not matter- he was convicted anyway, however, he was given a suspended sentence so he could come home and receive mental health treatment. I don't think the PO understands that mental issues really exist- I think she believes kids and parents are really in control of it all. In any case, my son has not gotten further legal charges and the PO does not know about the knives- she only knows that he was hospitalized in Dec for sel-injurous behavior and this time for becoming agressive with me. She doesn't care- she's happy that he didn't commit a crime (as in- out in the community) so I am of the position that he needs more mental health treatment now and should not have his suspended sentence revoked because he did not go out in the community and commit another crime. She is of the position that the county isn't going to pay for him to get anything more. But, the county hasn't paid for ANY of this.

    LDM: I am heearing that the cuts in funding in our state for mental health treatment are just making an already bad situation almost impossible. I was shocked to hear about so much cut in this area because I thought our governor had made such a public issue about mental health treatment being needed for thos involved in the corrections systems. Apparently, that was osmehwat of a "show" to justify putting all people with cases like this is the corrections depts. then claiming that they are getting their treatment there, which of course is a joke. When my son was in detention, they gave him wrong dosages half the time and I've heard of kids getting the wrongs medications altogether sometimes, too.

    Thank you for reminding me about the new court that they are trying to establish- it might not hurt for me to bring up that just because it isn't established yet, doesn't mean my son should be punished more for being BiPolar (BP).

    Truthfully, my feeling is that he should feel some sting for his actions with the knives. But, being put into state juvy where he gets basicly no mental health treatment and they are violent and sexually assault each other and have their futures seriously damaged is too extreme. I think a few months in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) working toward therapuetic goals and having extensive services set in place upon return to home not only serves as consequences but also provides mental health treatment.

    I don't feel like I'm asking for anything unreasonable from the county. What would they have in my son 1 or 2 years from now if he spent that time in juvy, then released him? What will they have in him if he gets more extensive services? At least, which option provides the best odds of him turning things around?

    Furthermore, Residential Treatment Center (RTC) would be funded partly by school district, pratly by medicaid or other county funds, and possibly partly by my insurance. I don't feel bad about taking it. We have never had to request or be on any public assistance before and I am only asking now because I have depleted everything I have over all this. A lot of it has cost me twice as much because of things the GAL did and she didn't do what she was assigned to do- which was to help difficult child get more help. Plus, if the school district had done their job and raised a flag, told me what was going on, and paid attention and taken appropritate action when difficult child was sitting in class picking at himself until he bled, staring at the wall, and doing other things that indicated depression (or at least mental anguish) instead of writing him up for it and calling me to complain about him being a behavior problem for doing things like this, they might not be faced with paying for more now.
  9. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Thank you for your continuing support, ML!
  10. 30 and searching

    30 and searching New Member

    My heart goes out to you for everything you and your son our going through right now.

    I fought the county in court to try to get my oldest in a Residential Treatment Center (RTC). This was the reccommendations of the psychiatrists and SW's from the county he was previously being treated in. After several hearings, judge decided he would go and live with- his grandparents! Yes, his grandparents who I often recall saying, "We're gonna break him of his Autism." Ha! Not only is he doing worse, this year has been a complete downword spiral in school, with aggression.

    The reason they decided this, according to the court, and the law, is they need to find the least restrictive environment... this is in the best interest of the child. Ofcourse, we all know our children are not one size fits all, and in some cases, this is not in the best interest.

    The reason, according to a SW who had been working with- my oldest son prior to all this happening, is that Residential Treatment Center (RTC) is way more expensive, and the county doesn't want to pay for it. This SW used to work for the county we live in years back. He was a witness in court, and advocated for my son to be able to be transitioned to Residential Treatment Center (RTC), until stable enough to come back home. I can't believe the judge, it's as if he completly ignored this reccommendation, along with- the same reccommendations coming from the psychiatrists he has worked with.

    I didn't mean to ramble on about my own experience, I just wanted you to know I've been down this road. I have not had to deal with- juvy, my son is too low- functioning, and it is very obvious he has mental health issues. Nonetheless, the aggression is aweful. I was told that I could fight for more services, but the county offered me what they called "Wrap around Services." When we broke it down, these were the exact same services he was currently receiving, with- the exception of respite care, and that was minimal. We had tried respite in the past, but no one ever seemed qualified enough to make me want to leave him alone with- them! They all seemed to inexperienced, and too scared. For this same reason, my son's grandmother will not use the respite, as well. Ugh! What great "services!"

    I share your frustration, and I hope things will work out. Every state is different, and these situations can go many different ways. Keep fighting Warrior mom!

    Peace and Love- Sarah
  11. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Oh gosh, Sarah. I'm so sorry you had to go thru that. Placing my son with another family member is a great fear of mine too. My family had abuse in it and I cringe at the thought- plus, my bro filed for custody last year, but then dropped it after he learned that I was going to reveal the abuse and after difficult child told him point blank that he did not want to live with him. I did testify in court about the abuse at a later hearing, just to take the opportunity to let the judge and everyone else know in order to prevent this being an option if at all possible. Hopefully, that will be enough to keep them from seriously considering it. Plus, the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) proposed by the psychiatric hospital is more of a long term psychiatric hospital with an educational component. So, it is a medical necessaity for medication adjustments more than anything. At least, that's our position (mine and the mental health prof's). I just hope I can get the legal authorities to view it that way.

    I don't doubt for a mintue that they wouldn't prefer to just move difficult child to another home, which would be out of state, and they would make no financial provisions, but have me pay him child support, while being raised to blame all his problems on me.
  12. 30 and searching

    30 and searching New Member

    If you don't mind me asking, why did your brother file for custody? It is so hurtful, and frustrating when other family members think they can do a better job raising your children than, you, the parent. When things come down to crisis situations, this is the last thing we need.

    The thing about my son's grandmother, although she does love him, is that she never questions anything from the school. She just accepts everything they say and suggest. She also lets him eat anything he wants, and a lot of unhealthy stuff, and junk food. He is very overweight right now, andf this was another one of our concerns with- having him live there, which we voiced in court. The judge laughed and said, "Every grandma spoils their grandchildren." He is now 6foot 2, and extremely overweight, SW has warned them about letting him eat everything he wants, but honestly I don't think they're as concerned as we are.

    I do pay child support now. I have no problem doing this, I realize I am legally obligated to do so. The one thing that upsets me about it though, is that I was a single mom with- my son from birth, and I had a child support court order for his bio father. The payments he made were slim to none. He owes over $30,000 in back support, which I will probably never see. If I ever fall behind on a payment, which rarely happens, I am threatened to be put in jail! I think there needs to be some major changes to our system! We do not have a lot of money, live paycheck to paycheck, and I am still paying for lawyer fees, from when this all went down.

    It sounds like you are doing everything you can to try and get your son some help. The PO sounds like a real piece of work. Our kids need all the help and services they can get, I wish and hope that our legal system will begin to start realizing this. I wish you the best of luck.:D

    Peace and Love- Sarah
  13. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    My brother did it for selfish reasons- I'm a single parent and my brother was asking to raise my son from the time I knew I was pregnant (my bro is gay and he has a partner and they cannot adopt because they are gay). He had no grounds, as far as me mistreating my child or neglecting him, but my bro had told me that if he ever had an oppportunity, he would take custody. My bro has entitlement issues- he's a half-bro and we weren't raised together except in very early childhood years. As I say, it was an abusive family and I don't want to get into allk the deatils- I've posted about it before. When my son got into big legal trouble, my bro started calling all over the county trying to convince people that it was because of me, instead of a mental health issue/medications, and filed for custody. It almost worked, but it started looking suspicious when he went so far as to call the school district and try to get info on my son. My bro has never even lived in the same state and he was acting like an irate father regarding my son. My bro has only seen my son on about 10 occassions in his whole life. Still, the legal system could go that route. I pray they don't.

    Right now, I'm in a hurry- sorry- but need to leave for visitation at psychiatric hospital.
  14. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I can totally understand your frustration. It has to make more sense to place him in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) where he can hopefully get the help he needs. You and your are in my daily prayers. Sending supportive hugs your way.
  15. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I wouldn't worry about any judge in this state giving custody to your brother. Remember the case here years ago with the lesbian mother whose mother won custody of her son away from her? (for no reason other than her being a lesbian, *that* made her "unfit" in the courts' eyes... eyeroll). We haven't exactly progressed since then ... I doubt there's a chance of it happening the other way around. So, put that worry out of your head (one less, right?!)
  16. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Yeah- I read about it- but get this- as is par for the course in our situation- this judge had a hearing a year or so ago where she told everyone in court that she didn't care if the mmother (a different case) was a lesbian or not, she was going to try that case on the facts as they stood. Actually, I do agree with that. What worried me about our case is that when my bro showed up in court with a lawyer and custody papers in hand, the judge ordered an out-of-state study be done on him to see if he would qualify as a fit parent without even asking or listening to my attny about whether or not he should even be considered. It's a long story- I really don't want to spend the time writing about it all. Basicly- she ordered without listening to anything else.

    And yes, it can be appealled if a person has time and money to keep pursuing lawyers and courts.
  17. Andy

    Andy Active Member

    I had lunch with a friend of mine. We have another friend whose son is in adolescent juvy. She told me that our friend has to pay for juvy.

    p.s. I unintentionally mislead about banks. Some were open on Monday - my husband (bank examiner - maybe I should have ASKED him?) stated that it was the decision of each individual bank to be open or not. He stated that the federal banks were most likely closed but many state banks may be open. Sorry!
  18. Janna

    Janna New Member

    My oldest son just completed a 6 month Residential Treatment Facility (RTF) stay. He was put in there through court, by his P.O., because of several probation violations (which had nothing to do with home, really - all theft, but his issues here were getting troublesome, too, so I asked, and he went).

    Now, our County is paying for the Residential Treatment Facility (RTF) because probation put him there. But, let me tell you what they do. They file for child support - through Domestic Relations, against the parent. Oh, yes - they do. And, throughout B's stay, I have been charged $400 a month, every month. And, if I can't afford to pay it, I get summoned into court for contempt (and I was...so yes, it happens). Then, they'll be nice and let you go - after you promise to pay. And, if you still cannot continue to pay the child support, then you get another pretty letter, which is a sentencing for the contempt you couldn't pay.

    If you place your child voluntarily into the Residential Treatment Facility (RTF) then I don't know how much that is. My son is on state insurance (we're in PA, so that's Unison), so his entire Residential Treatment Facility (RTF) was paid. He's on this because he gets SSI Disability due to the neurological disorders he has. But, I have heard it can run something crazy, like $2500 a day? LOL! Geez.
  19. Tattwoo1

    Tattwoo1 tattwoo

    Hello - can someone please help me familiarize myself with the acronyms? difficult child? Residential Treatment Center (RTC)? many others. . .. . . . .

    I am trying to salvage my relationship with my stepsons father, but feel like it is just not worth it. He is just 9 and I had a disconcerting meeting with his shrink today who was pleased to tell me that cambo's behavior was not his fault (implying it was mine) and it was due to his "condition". I have been trying to deal with increased problematic and violent behavior for nearly 3 years and I am really over it. I love al, but I am having frustration, resentment and contempt in regard to a child with no sign of improving.
    I have a well adjusted son of my own sharing my frustrations. Should I cut and run despite any love in the relationship?? Does this get better or easier?? I feel like a wuss but I am adult enough to realize that this is not my child and the genetic and substance problems both his parents have are not my issue.
    Any thoughts, comments, suggestions, remarks???