Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Malika, Jul 9, 2011.

  1. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    One of J's behaviours that I find the hardest to put up with is his whining... what I believe is called "negative persistence". It arises often during the day, basically whenever he doesn't get something he wants. Some things I have patience with, but this I find really pushes a button with me - I find it very hard to say "it's not his fault, it's whatever is wrong with him" but just react to him as though he is being a spoilt brat, often... He will just keep on and on and on whining and protesting, which of course makes me all the more impatient and frustrated with him. Which then makes his whining and crying worse, and round we go... Part of me just does not want to give in to this unpleasant behaviour, and of course when I stand firm, he starts really crying loudly, trying to get what he wants...
    To what extent can he "help" this? What do you do with your children when they indulge in this behaviour? Any tips to get round it/prevent it?
  2. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    Really? I've never heard it called anything but whining. Yeah, it's pretty normal, and it pushes my buttons, too. Doesn't matter which kid, I think it's that tone they use why they whine. Affects the brain so you'll do almost anything to make it stop.
  3. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Lol. Actually, it's here on the forum that I've seen "negative persistence" - people sometimes list it as one of the characteristics of their ADHD child...
    You don't tell me how to stop it, HaoZi! Wish you'd share... :)
  4. Ktllc

    Ktllc New Member

    My easy child has a tendency to whining. When he gets frustrated or upset. I do realize he is a easy child, but I ask him to speck in a nice clear voice and then, maybe, I'll consider his request. It has worked pretty well with him. What you could add, since J is difficult child, is the "no, yes, yes" technique (only once he uses a normal voice though).
    "No, yes, yes: no you cannot have a candy, but yes you could have some pecans or yes you could eat a banana". Give him 2 alternate choices so he feels in control.
    Good luck.
  5. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    J will always agree to ask properly and speak in a normal voice when I ask him - but that still leaves the problem of not giving him what he wants. And if he doesn't get that, the whining begins again...
    I like this "no, yes, yes" idea. It must mean you have to think quickly on your feet - of two things the child CAN have in that moment. Certainly the word "no" is one that J finds deeply emotionally upsetting... guaranteed to make him wail and shriek as though he has been shot, his body often writhing in shock... Sometimes it just makes me determined to say it, unwilling to have to tread on these eggshells all the time... Oy vey.
  6. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    Sometimes a reminder that I can't understand her when she talks like that will stop the whining. Other times I just turn up the TV or radio until I can't hear it or she gives up.
  7. nvts

    nvts Active Member

    I've adopted the term "Whinese". It's a language only understood by those that reside in the country "Whiner".

    Basically, I let her go for a bout a minute or so and then tell her that when she's done we can talk. Then I go about my business. Does it always work? Heck no, but even the smallest victory is a win! lol!

  8. shellyd67

    shellyd67 Active Member

    I always used the term negative persistance with my difficult child. That is totally how I viewed his whining/complaining... I learned how (after many years) to tune him out and ignore him or just shut down and keep telling myself he will give up sooner or later ...

    It is one of my biggest issues with him and there is certainly no magic answer, sadly.

    He is currently whining like a baby right now because I said he couldn't have a sleepover (it is currently 10pm here in PA) it is going to be along night but I am going to continue typing and make as if I a busy as a beaver so he will give up quicker (fingers crossed)

    Good Luck Malika and if you do find a technique that works, please share.
  9. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    I do empathise Shelly. Sometimes J just becomes so unpleasant and persistent in his whingeing that it really makes me feel quite violent towards him... I don't indulge those feelings in action, but I nonetheless am tempted. I tell him no for something and he will keep on and on and on and on... his voice becoming more and more insistent and grating and unbearable... Sometimes I feel he must be mentally ill, seriously. Why would someone keep on and on like that?
  10. shellyd67

    shellyd67 Active Member

    I know Malika I have uttered those very words. He must be mentally ill ... Who in the world would behave like this ? It has gotten better with my difficult child with age. When he was younger as your difficult child is now. OH WATCH OUT ! He wore me down to nothing. I was so mentally spent I would put him to bed and then go in my room and cry.

    From experience, the more you feed into it, the longer it will continue...
  11. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Ah Shelly... in fact, your description of your son describes my own to a T (the jury is still out on the social skills and underachievement)...
    Some of it is to do with "space". Today, for example, we were cooped up inside our small house because I am now uncomfortable with J going outside to play with all the complaints and constant gossip about him, etc. And things kind of get very intense and unpleasant, for both of us. Then we went out this afternoon - driving through the green woods hereabouts, up in the mountains, and then finding a playground or two and a stream where we could play "pooh sticks" (as in "Winnie the Pooh"...) and look at insects, etc. And, in the space of the outside, with physical activity, everything becomes calm, normal and manageable again. I feel quite fond of him again :) Do you find that with your son? J is such an outdoors creature and if we had a huge garden or park outside the house for him to play in and our lives would be much better... So some of this is about finding the right environment to contain his hyperactivity and intense energy levels.
  12. Ktllc

    Ktllc New Member

    Malika, I have noticed how much your son's behavior is affected by your nature walks (I get to know your threads! lol)
    How about making a routine out of that? Making sure he gets on a walk everyday if possible. That might be a good coping method.
    I do not know if my difficult child is ADHD (he does jump around, climb furniture, run etc A LOT in the house), but as husband and I were wondering... we agreed on one thing: we are lucky to live in the woods with lots of acreage around us for him to explore, climb and run as much as he wants. difficult child spends hours outside. husband and I asked ourselves how he would be if he was cooped up in a appartment in Paris... SCARY thought!!!!
  13. shellyd67

    shellyd67 Active Member

    I remember keeping my son in the house for fear he would upset or cause chaos with the neighbor kids.

    I used to try and micro manage him playing and it really backfired and strained our relationship.

    His peers have shown him (some gently, some wickedly) that he needed to stop certain behaviors. He was much more receptive with them than with husband or myself.

    He is much older than your son and at 4 years old, you must supervise his outdoor play.

    Roller skating was my son's outlet. He turned into a different kid while rolling around the rink. We used to go every Saturday and it was our little bit of peace.

    My difficult child has calmed down significantly over the last year or so. His negative persistance was daily back then, now it is bi-weekly if not monthly.

    Funny thing is, I was at church this morning and husband did not give him his medications and he was "off the hook" today.

    You are doing a wonderful job. Hang in there. Hopefully the rough days will be a little less often as time goes on ...
  14. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    When I'm subbing and have a persistent whiner, I designate a "no whining" zone. If you have a question, problem, or concern, once you enter the zone, you have to speak clearly and calmly, and when you do that, I'm happy to listen, and we'll fix it as best we can. It works most of the time.

    With Miss KT, I found that she was whining simply to hear the sound of her own voice. I tried the reasoning with her...nope. I tried responding calmly that ABC wasn't going to happen right now, because we had to do XYZ. Nope. Hollered, "Stop whining!" And she stared at me like she had no idea why I had just hollered at her. Finally told her that if she just had to whine, she could whine in her room, and when she was ready to come out and talk to me like a civilized person, I was ready to listen.
  15. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    I think it is quite right that if I "feed into" it, it proliferates. This morning, for example, I told J he had to have bread and chocolate for breakfast (as opposed to just chocolate on a spoon, as he wanted) and he started protesting. I just said very evenly and calmly, in a pleasant tone of voice, "You have to have something in your tummy for breakfast" and he said in the whine tone "But I don't want it!". And then stopped. And ate bread. It was just a whine for form's sake, to save face or satisfy something within him... If I allow it to get to me and stress me, and get angry (because I am human), he becomes a manic whiner, on and on...
    The trouble is, I think, that I need a team of therapists to enable me to deal successfully with my difficult child :) And my difficult child isn't even as difficult as some I read about here. Most of his difficult behaviour rubs me up the wrong way, stresses me, angers me... his answering back and refusing to do simple things, sometimes, just because he has to refuse or to be in control makes me cross, as if he is just being difficult and spoilt. The child psychiatrist said to me "Try to remember that he is not doing these things on purpose, or to annoy you" and of course in the heat of the moment I am unable to remember or focus on that... I do try to be conscious, I do try to be patient, I do try to inject as much fun and laughter and love into our relationship as possible. But... sometimes... I think the stress of dealing with him on my own overwhelms me. Just being very honest here... We are shortly to go to Morocco, where J will spend time with his father and Moroccan family, without me, and we will have a long break from each other. Of course I feel very mixed feelings about that but know I need to rest and recuperate... regroup. I'm quite sure all of you here will understand that.
  16. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Maybe I'm whining too, lol. J works on such different lines to most children - sound familiar? - and I still haven't really accepted that, I think. And I keep getting stressed with his behaviour as though he's doing it on purpose. And maybe some of it he is. And presumably some of it he doesn't exactly choose. Did anyone say it was going to be this perplexing?
  17. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I did find that with girls they whine more. It is the one thing that I dont like as much with my granddaughters as opposed to my sons when they were little. Or maybe my boys just realized that whining wasnt going to work well because we didnt have much money back then so whining for things wasnt gonna get them things and what they really wanted was outdoors play and they had that.

    Keyana whines. Badly. Maybe it is our fault. I have instituted the no whine zone and I simply dont listen to whining. I pretend I cant understand her if she talks in anything other than big girl talk. Whining is for babies. I say it once and then I go about my business. If it persists more than a few minutes, this is the one of the few times that she gets sent to her room to work it out. Normally it will stop and I get an apology fairly fast and she comes to me to snuggle.

    Thing is you have to be consistent. Its not easy. I adore my granddaughter and I want nothing more to do than take her to the store and give in to her every whim. I do. I want to buy her every toy on the market. I want to buy every little pink outfit and all the glittery jeans in town. When she fell in love with Justin Bieber, I ordered her jeans and a shirt custom made with his picture and her name on it! She is my first little girl in my life and I have wanted one forever. Its sooooo hard for me to attempt to stand firm with her and it is doubly hard for her Papa. LOL. Sometimes I am the only one in the house enforcing rules in the house but she still loves us. She adores us. Your son will love you even if you even if you enforce limits.
  18. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Hi Janet. I understand your dilemma with your little grand-daughter :) I am good at sticking to what I have said with J. This does not stop him whining and the whining is also not restricted to things he wants - this is reasonably limited probably because we do not spend so much time around shops, etc. He whines about everything he wants to do that does not happen and everything he does not want to do that does happen... Actually, everything is an exaggeration but it does seem a common phenomenon... I actually wonder whether it is something to do with his mindset or brain or we do not know what. Seeing the glass half empty. That said, he is often joyful and happy, as befits a four year old.