Why must they lie

[dirobb]

Last night difficult child 14ss and I got back home from psychiatrist appointment. (they upped his lithium...his anger and medication are out of control) He asked for a snack. I said no (my daughter was bring dinner-ready-home) I said we will be eating soon. I go to my room to talk to my husband by phone about a letter from the court we just got (see update.sad post)

I come out ..he is shutting the drawer in the kitchen and stepped away quickly. I asked what he was getting. Nothing, he says. He clearly has something in his hand I ask again. I ask what is in his hand . He has almonds. I ask him to throw them out. He opens the trash cabinet. and slams it shut because he is now ******. Well this infuriates me ( i am so tired of broken stuff..tired of finding broken glued back together stuff) So I start yelling, I swatted his arm.

I had called my mom and it had just started ringing as all this transpired . I tried hanging up to deal with difficult child.. She hears yelling and commotion. and calls right back to check on me. (it was pcdd 18th birthday..she was visiting my mom and bring dinner from there) In one sense I am glad because no one understands all we deal with they dont get to see this side of difficult child. He was yelling and screaming. on the other hand I hate that I reacted the way I did. But all this stuff has raised the stress level in our home. Not an excuse.

I sent him to his room. I go in and he is visably shaking because he is mad. I try talking to him he is talking at me through clenched teeth and glaring. Has no clue why I hit him. This is where he is focused. So I go back through what really happened. I ask him is there anything he could have done to change this situation. What choice drove it. I feel like I am talking to no one. He doesnt know why I am talking to him He doesn't have a problem. He doen't like me talking with him calmly, he doesnt want to be corrected in any way shape of form. No one like the yealling. I try not to it accomplishes nothing. I would much rather try to get him refective ato use as a tool to learn differnt techniques to resolve his issues.

Why does he feel like he can do whatever he wants. Why does he feel no remorse. Why must he lie.(even when he is caught with evidence in his hand) Why must he lie about the most absurb, unimportant things.

One of his therapist (the one who dismissed him) syas he sees a budding anti social personality disorder. It feels like a life sentence. I am starting to get frightened that that mey be a literal term for him one day, if he does not make better decisions.

My head, heart hurts. It just makes no sense. I just know his anger has increased and we need to help him control that.

 

[CrazyinVA]

I wish I had an answer to that question, dirobb. My Oldest has always lied a lot. Won't ever admit it, even when caught red-handed. Remorse? No. I've never understood, and stopped trying awhile back. Sometimes, she's talking to me, telling me a story about something or other that happened to her, and I find myself thinking, "ok, which part of this is true and which part is completely made up?" It's impossible to tell any more.

You're not alone.

I think it's a little soon to lable it antisocial personality disorder.

 

[meowbunny]

Let's see -- he was hungry now. You said wait. He didn't want to wait. Got busted. You hit him. You asked him what he could have done differently while he was still angry.

I can't tell you what yours was thinking, I can tell you why mine would have reacted the exact same way. She wouldn't have cared that dinner was on the way -- she was hungry NOW. She still would have eaten any food put in front of her and she wasn't getting a lot of food and it wasn't just empty calories. She would have lied about it because she knows I would have made her put it back or get rid of it. The cabinet door would have been slammed out of frustration and anger. She would have gone to her room but there is no way she would have listened to a single word I would have said at that point.

Now, after going through this a few times, here's what I learned:

1. I would have let know dinner was coming shortly but given her the option of a quick, light, healthy snack if she truly felt she couldn't wait but with the knowledge that I would have expected her to eat all of her dinner.

2. I learned to not ask if I knew the answer. "It would have been a simple please throw whatever is your hand away. Thank you." If you don't ask, it's hard to lie.

3. Save the discussion about how things could have been handled differently until everyone is truly calmed down. I would tell my daughter to come talk to me about an incident when we were both calm. I would also be open to hearing how I could have handled things better, not just putting it all on her behavior.

I'd pretty much dismiss what that therapist said. Remember, the therapist was dismissed for a reason. Now, if he had refused to throw the almonds away, hit you either when you swatted his arm or when he was so angry he was shaking, I'd say you had more to fear. As angry as he was, he did his level best to retain control. That really does say a lot.

Also remember that kids will almost always lie to get out of trouble, especially between the ages of 8-11. If your son is halfway typical, he is immature so is probably doing exactly what an 11 YO boy would do when caught redhanded .. DENY DENY DENY. Who knows? You might even be convinced that you're nuts and didn't see exactly what you saw.

Given his age, Dxes and the stressors in your home, do find time for you. You'll need every ounce of strength you can muster to survive.

 

[dirobb]

Thanks for the replies. He has told us before he does not know why he just lies. So my husband says I think maybe I should start lying to you. He says no your the parent you cant lie to me. Im just a kid.

go figure.

meow...His therapist dismissed him. Said he does not treat ASPD. Discarged him so that he could have better interventions in place. (he is a high risk for becoming a sexual offender) We actually love him.. he is still our therapist.

 

[Star*]

Question: Why must they lie
Answer: Because they have a mouth?

We're to the point with Dude that if he opens his mouth, and we didn't actually witness the event first hand it COULD be a lie. nae - IT IS A LIE. Who are we kidding?

 

[meowbunny]

FYI -- I tried lying to mine. All it did was get her to tell me that she no longer had to trust me, either. Last thing I wanted to have happen.

Honestly, I did see some good at what happened. He did open his hand and show you the almonds. Mine would not have -- I either would have to physically force her or she would have shoved them into her mouth before I could get them. He was really angry at you when you smacked his arm. Rather than hit you, he slammed the cabinet door. He was still angry when you tried to talk to him. Rather than shove you out of his room or worse, he gave you the teen attitude and talked through clenched teeth. I know those may seem small in the scheme of things, but, trust me, they're not -- especially not in a 14 YO male.

 

[TerryJ2]

I agree. He wanted the almonds NOW. He got busted.
You yelled at him, in essence, validating his need to lie in order to eat.

Not the answer you wanted, I'm sure ...

 

[DammitJanet]

I understand your fear of the ASPD because my son has personality disorder not otherwise specified with anti-social and borderline traits. He is basically ASPD light. He does have some empathy but its on his terms, when he wants it to show. He also isnt really violent...more verbally idiotic than physical. Other than that, mine reads like the description. It is scary but the older mine gets, the more he seems to be trying to get a handle on himself. Legal problems have been the norm for him since he was 14. We are hopeful that this latest bout may have been the eye opener for him. I hope you dont have to go through what we have but not all ASPD folks are horrible.

 

[Christy]

difficult children lie to stay out of trouble. difficult children lie so that we won't be disappointed in them. difficult children lie to avoid a lecture. difficult children lie to get what they want. difficult children lie to get other people in trouble. difficult children lie to get people to like them. difficult children lie because it is often easier than admitting the truth. That being said, lying is not exclusive to difficult children. PCs lie and so do grown-ups from time to time.

I understand your frustration and do not at all mean to make light of the situation. You asked him not to do something and he did it anyway, that's frustrating. On the other hand, he was hungry and almonds are a healthy snack. I'm going to do my best Ross Greene impression here and ask, "Was waiting for dinner important enough to endure a meltdown?"

Wishing you a better day tomorrow!
Christy

 

[KarenB]

I have asked myself, my husband, my difficult child this a thousand and one times. Your son sounds just like mine, but I do agree with the positives of the situation. Much easier to see when you're not the one in it, right? Hang in there. Don't forget you are entitled to your feelings, and none of us have always handled these things perfectly, by a long shot.