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Family of Origin
Work and Germany Part II: Abandonment Recovery
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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 673949" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>Hi all,</p><p></p><p>I want to share a really happy thing that happened tonight and briefly a sad and hard thing.</p><p></p><p>First the happy thing: 2 of M's sons called from Mx.</p><p>He is glowing with happiness. I cannot tell you how happy I am for him. It has taken years. For his children to come around. He spoke to 3 of his children tonight. Now, he is in regular contact with 6 of the 9.</p><p></p><p>My son called. It was a hard call, again. I know he is trying to not trespass onto problematic topics, but when he starts in on Israel and the Jews, I have a visceral reaction.</p><p></p><p>He had to start in on how either the USA or Israel ordered Turkey to shoot down the Russian fighter jet. And the stuff about the false flags.</p><p></p><p>Me: Please, J, I do not want to discuss Israel or the Jewish people with you. They are my people and I am not neutral about my people. My mother. My grandmother and grandfather. All of my people before that. I can never not be them. Anyhow, Turkey would not take orders from Israel because Turkey is a Muslim nation.</p><p></p><p>But I am not a person with whom to discuss these things. While I follow national and world events, I am not somebody who cares to debate issues.</p><p></p><p>Him: I am not debating or arguing. These are facts.</p><p></p><p>Me: You and I listen to different founts of information. I listen to NPR and read Intercept. I recommend them both and The Guardian Newspaper from Great Britain. </p><p></p><p>I agree with you that conventional news media is not a reliable source. I listen but for entertainment.</p><p></p><p>Facts do not impress me. Anybody can find facts to support their respective opinions. It is just a question of selecting facts that fit your argument. Everybody cites facts. But their facts differ. </p><p></p><p>Him: No. Facts are facts. They are real. There are only real facts. What I say is TRUE.</p><p></p><p>I do not want to argue about it with you. Anyway, I told you I need to get off the phone at 3:20. It is now 3:20. I need to say goodbye.</p><p></p><p>You can't do that to me, he said.</p><p></p><p>Me: I'm sorry, I have a commitment and I have to go. I love you. Goodbye.</p><p></p><p>I relayed the conversation to M who said this:</p><p></p><p>Tell him that you a Jewish person adopted him and gave him all of your love and care and protection. Does he prefer that you, a Jewish person had not adopted him?</p><p></p><p>What he is saying is racist. It is very rejecting to you.</p><p></p><p>I hate to tell you this, but you needed to stop this a long time ago. He has to give too. Not just you.</p><p></p><p>Are you supposed to listen to his racist views about your people? It is not right of you to continue listening and engaging with him while he speaks in this way.</p><p></p><p>This is what Hitler did and all of the anti-semites before him. Talked about Jewish conspiracies as a way to scapegoat and then attack them. This is not something your son should say to you, and it is not something that you should tolerate.</p><p></p><p>Me: How can I say that? That is going somewhere I do not want to go. I cannot reject him. To bring it down to my adopting him and questioning that, is to go somewhere that I cannot go. My adopting him was the right thing no matter what because I am his mother no matter what. Even if he hates what I am. I am always his mother. Even if he is a racist towards me, I am his mother. I do not want to push him away. But I cannot not defend my people. Right or wrong they are my people. Just as my son is my people.</p><p></p><p>I know I am supposed to stay neutral and just listen to him without commenting when he talks about his garbage.</p><p></p><p>But think about it. My son has decided to scapegoat the very ethnic group to which I belong. A psychoanalyst would say that he was doing it to make psychological distance between us. To separate. To get control over his very strong feelings towards me.... I can understand it. In a psychological sense. But I am a human.</p><p></p><p>I think that the better way to approach it is to tell my son the other part of what M said: J we can talk about subjects that pertain to us both, that we both have an interest in. And very stridently protect that limit. Not allow there to be any conversation about world events.</p><p></p><p>I feel sad. I keep failing. What a nutcase family my son and I are.</p><p>'</p><p>I still feel very happy for M.</p><p></p><p>COPA</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 673949, member: 18958"] Hi all, I want to share a really happy thing that happened tonight and briefly a sad and hard thing. First the happy thing: 2 of M's sons called from Mx. He is glowing with happiness. I cannot tell you how happy I am for him. It has taken years. For his children to come around. He spoke to 3 of his children tonight. Now, he is in regular contact with 6 of the 9. My son called. It was a hard call, again. I know he is trying to not trespass onto problematic topics, but when he starts in on Israel and the Jews, I have a visceral reaction. He had to start in on how either the USA or Israel ordered Turkey to shoot down the Russian fighter jet. And the stuff about the false flags. Me: Please, J, I do not want to discuss Israel or the Jewish people with you. They are my people and I am not neutral about my people. My mother. My grandmother and grandfather. All of my people before that. I can never not be them. Anyhow, Turkey would not take orders from Israel because Turkey is a Muslim nation. But I am not a person with whom to discuss these things. While I follow national and world events, I am not somebody who cares to debate issues. Him: I am not debating or arguing. These are facts. Me: You and I listen to different founts of information. I listen to NPR and read Intercept. I recommend them both and The Guardian Newspaper from Great Britain. I agree with you that conventional news media is not a reliable source. I listen but for entertainment. Facts do not impress me. Anybody can find facts to support their respective opinions. It is just a question of selecting facts that fit your argument. Everybody cites facts. But their facts differ. Him: No. Facts are facts. They are real. There are only real facts. What I say is TRUE. I do not want to argue about it with you. Anyway, I told you I need to get off the phone at 3:20. It is now 3:20. I need to say goodbye. You can't do that to me, he said. Me: I'm sorry, I have a commitment and I have to go. I love you. Goodbye. I relayed the conversation to M who said this: Tell him that you a Jewish person adopted him and gave him all of your love and care and protection. Does he prefer that you, a Jewish person had not adopted him? What he is saying is racist. It is very rejecting to you. I hate to tell you this, but you needed to stop this a long time ago. He has to give too. Not just you. Are you supposed to listen to his racist views about your people? It is not right of you to continue listening and engaging with him while he speaks in this way. This is what Hitler did and all of the anti-semites before him. Talked about Jewish conspiracies as a way to scapegoat and then attack them. This is not something your son should say to you, and it is not something that you should tolerate. Me: How can I say that? That is going somewhere I do not want to go. I cannot reject him. To bring it down to my adopting him and questioning that, is to go somewhere that I cannot go. My adopting him was the right thing no matter what because I am his mother no matter what. Even if he hates what I am. I am always his mother. Even if he is a racist towards me, I am his mother. I do not want to push him away. But I cannot not defend my people. Right or wrong they are my people. Just as my son is my people. I know I am supposed to stay neutral and just listen to him without commenting when he talks about his garbage. But think about it. My son has decided to scapegoat the very ethnic group to which I belong. A psychoanalyst would say that he was doing it to make psychological distance between us. To separate. To get control over his very strong feelings towards me.... I can understand it. In a psychological sense. But I am a human. I think that the better way to approach it is to tell my son the other part of what M said: J we can talk about subjects that pertain to us both, that we both have an interest in. And very stridently protect that limit. Not allow there to be any conversation about world events. I feel sad. I keep failing. What a nutcase family my son and I are. ' I still feel very happy for M. COPA [/QUOTE]
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