Would This Be too Devious?

[Hound dog]

Just got off the phone with katie. (she put the cell phone I brought her yesterday to good use)

Lots of complaining about the shelter. Expected. Some I believe having been there done that......some yeah not so much. Like Evan has lost a ton of weight because he's flat out refusing to eat the shelter food....... Most likely it's she's not making him eat or you know those rotten teeth, but whatever. The kids are enrolled in school.........they hate it there. (this by kayla) Katie and M supposedly looked for work everywhere around the shelter.............sure they did......... She did however get the welfare switched over. And she's sick as a dog with a cold. lol Don't know why that strikes me as funny.......guess I'm getting a mean streak. Shelter is not helping them..........stuff is getting stolen including Evans new winter coat. (that really peeves me off)

Oh and this weekly evaluation crud? It's a "triage to assess their situation" WTH? Katie was there a whole week before they did this to see what sort of help she needed...........then told her the help wasn't available. (ok they supposedly told her it isn't available, have to remember the source)

So I've had a devious thought. Seriously devious. Let them wallow in misery for a bit longer. Then pop up with well you know the grands could come here to stay........that's only 3 not 5 people.......they could eat decent, go back to the school they love, and live without misery until Mom and Dad give off their lazy booties and find work and a place to live. If push came to shove could say well maybe the shelter here would have single openings for her and M........while the grands stayed here. (they do have singles all the time, it was the family deal was the hang up) Of course I'd have katie and M here wanting to see the kids everyday...........Hmmm may have to think on that one a bit more.

Katie says all the kids talk about is me and papa........Evan thinks every white car is papa coming to pick them up. And the grands were devastated when shelter staff wouldn't call and tell them we were there to drop off the mail yesterday so they could see us. (which also peeved me off) I mean come on we're her parents........husband dropped her off........you can take privacy a bit too d*mn far.

Told katie the plan for Tday...........and the plans of easy child's to take the kids for a sleep over so that they can "get xmas gifts for their parents" which is really so we can bake xmas cookies, decorate the tree, ect in peace........and told her the xmas plans that they can all come xmas eve and spend the night so the kids can do santa. She was all for it. So at least that is good. But she doesn't know if Evan will be able to do the sleep over part.......so he may get excluded that time.

She is not a happy camper. lol Oh, well. If you'd done what you should've done here you wouldn't be stuck up there in Dayton. duh

I don't feel sorry for her one bit. But it's taking it's toll on the grands......could hear it when I talked to them.

If I could think of a way for the grands to be here without the parents.............I'd have Katie sign over temp custody/guardianship. Honestly if she really loved them she'd jump at the chance for them to have some stability while their parents get their act together.

Not counting on it being that easy. But seems Katie is already blowing up at staff.......lol I knew she'd not be able to hold it together very long. And she's already talking about trying the Red Cross as someone told her they also have a shelter..................(does red cross do that, I didn't think they did unless for disasters and such?) So I'm guessing she may be looking at cps being called already. You know, the running thing. ugh

Of course the "closest" place for them to find work is 16 miles by foot. OK.....sure. Not.

Well..........that was my entertainment for the evening. Katie sounded odd though.......other than the cold that has her hoarse.........just odd, like a person on the edge sort of odd......not at all like herself. Really hyped up, really hyped up.

Hmmm.

 

[HaoZi]

There are some Red Cross county chapters that do, but on a nationwide whole I don't think it's a common thing, most chapters I'm familiar with in various areas do not have that kind of funding.

Dayton does. I'll PM you their link.

 

[donna723]

Lisa, devious or not, if there's any way you could get temporary custody of those kids, I think you should do it. And like you said, if she loved those kids she would jump at the chance to get them out of that shelter. She knows they're unhappy and she knows that they would much rather be with you in a stable environment. They had just enough of a taste of the "normal" life while they were with you, they're probably even more miserable to be back in a homeless shelter now. Whatever you decide to do, you should probably do it quickly though. If she keeps on having problems with the staff, they could all end up getting booted out of there and then it would be even more difficult for you to take the kids with you but not the parents.

I'm not sure about the legalities though. If she just signs over temporary custody to you to get the kids out of the shelter, would they still be eligible for the govt. assistance they're getting now? If worse comes to worst, you can still go the CPS route and then they would officially be with you as foster children and you would get the same stipend to care for them that other foster parents receive.

 

[HaoZi]

I think most shelters would split up Katie and M to singles areas if they don't have the kids, and her foodstamps benefits would drop a lot without them, too. Whether or not Katie knows that...

 

[donna723]

I was thinking along the lines of, if the kids come to you temporarily, will their food stamps, etc., come with them? Or, if she just signs over temporary custody, will you be responsible for their financial support with no govt. assistance?

 

[HaoZi]

She could apply for emergency benefits (foodstamps and maybe TANF as well) on their behalf, think if CPS was involved it might move faster.

 

[Hound dog]

Katie knows about the foodstamps........she's been milking the system (however poorly) for years.........since she was pregnant with kayla. And she'd loose them completely without the kids probably. Like I've said before the kids are her and M's meal ticket literally, and they both know it. Otherwise they'd have most likely dumped the kids ages ago. Due to the meal ticket thing.........I doubt seriously she'd opt for the kids staying here while they do the shelter thing.

Thanks for the link for the red cross shelter HaoZi, that's pretty cool that they do that........I imagine it's probably not easy to get into. Looks like it would be nice though. Although the one she is in looks nice.......and via the picture of kayla online I can see the interior is also kept nice. Not luxury, but please, it's a homeless shelter.

Almost all shelters spit the parent up into singles even with kids. The shelters are just set up that way as a means to protect all the kids in the shelter. (yeah I know it's sexist, but at least they make an effort) Ours will split them up too.........it's just that instead of one common room Katie would've been in a room of her own with the kids.

For all her complaining about the shelter......................She said that they're having issues applying for jobs because of having to drag Evan out into the cold. *rolls eyes* And I know she isn't looking for work because she started whining about no sitter for Evan. I just told her you set that up after you get the job. (she knows how it works she's used it before)

So, still complaints and excuses. ugh If it were me, I'd be hauling my fanny to get my kids out of there as fast as humanly possible, no matter what it took. Not whining and complaining and making excuses.

 

[HaoZi]

Yes, looks like the Red Cross is very strict on their intake policies and only accept referrals from specific places for applications. They list it on the site where the referrals have to come from. Looks like their family housing is more like small apartments and not a big group shelter type deal.

 

[toughlovin]

I don't think it is devious actually. Tell it like it is, we can't have all of you stay here but i am worried about the kids. If you want us to take the kids while you and M look for work etc. I will be glad too. I wouldn't mention the shelter near you, let them stay where they are but go andn get the kids. I do think if possibly you should take the kids. I believe the shelter staff will have to call CPS if they think there is any neglect going on.

 

[DammitJanet]

I would offer to take the kids with temp custody attached and then file for permanent custody later on. Right now, all you really need is a notarized letter giving you all legal parental rights to them. You can take that and jump it to a temp custody court if needed but it should work just fine for what you need to do.

You can sign up for TANF, food stamps and medicaid for the kids immediately upon getting them.

 

[JJJ]

I would offer to take the kids with temp custody attached and then file for permanent custody later on. Right now, all you really need is a notarized letter giving you all legal parental rights to them. You can take that and jump it to a temp custody court if needed but it should work just fine for what you need to do.

You can sign up for TANF, food stamps and medicaid for the kids immediately upon getting them.

A notarized letter may be enough for some things but it will not prevent the parents from being able to come and get the kids and leave.

I believe if you take temporary guardianship (not custody) through the courts that the kids can keep their eligibility for food stamps. etc. If may be worth one of those cheap consults with an attorney to try and see what options you have.

I'd try and make the court order say something like...Mr. and Mrs. Hounddog are granted temporary legal and physical custody of Kayla, Alex and Evan until such time that Katie and GFGGuy demonstrate to the court that they have (1) stable housing and (2) stable employment. The court will entertain a motion to rescind guardianship only once those conditions have been met for a minimum of 90 consecutive days. At that time, the court will evaluate based on the best interests of the children. Visitation shall be at the discretion of Mrs and Mr. Houndog.

It will be way cheaper if Katie and husband will stipulate to the agreement.

Course, I am not a lawyer and don't even play one on tv -- this is just my own random thoughts on how I'd want to be protected from Katie/husband's whims.

 

[dashcat]

I don't think it's devious. I think it is a very loving thing to do for your grands. Katie needs to face her own choices and it would be nice if she could do so without further subjecting her children to the consequences of what she has chosen.

Have you considered talking to CPS about taking them as a foster placement? You would receive a small amount of support (but that would help) money and Katie and her H would not recieve financial help for the kids - which they are clearly not using wisely.

Those kids are lucky to have you.
Dash

 

[hexemaus2]

In my granddaughter's case, difficult child 1 and hubby had no jobs and no home. Rae was staying on and off with my sister in law. It would start as a "for the weekend" thing, with them not coming to get her for weeks on end. We didn't complain because it meant I got to see Rae (as the Demon Mother of Doom, I wasn't "allowed" to come see Rae when she was with them...but sister in law and I snuck visits when I dropped off diapers, or just "stopped by," not knowing Rae was still there. *cough*) And it meant Rae was in a stable home with food, a bed, and people who took care of her.

However, as things progressed, it became obvious (finally) to DFCS that difficult child 1 & hubby weren't going to get their act together. sister in law had a signed agreement with difficult child 1 and hubby to take care of Rae temporarily. It was made part of DFCS safety plan. Eventually, DFCS gave them the option to either come into court and make it official or DFCS would take them to court and get custody.

The way it worked here, because they voluntarily signed over custody to sister in law, DFCS was only there to facilitate court proceedings. They are not involved with custody any more now, so sister in law didn't get a foster care stipend. (She would only get that if DFCS had custody and placed Rae in her home as a foster child, as opposed to difficult child 1 signing over custody directly to sister in law.) However, she can (and has) applied for state assistance for Rae (food stamps, medicaid, etc.) She gets it regardless of her income, since Rae is considered a "ward" and thus not a legal part of sister in law's family. Now, if difficult child 1 and hubby want to regain custody, they have to file a petition with the court for a hearing and demonstrate stable employment and housing. They can't just go to DFCS any more to get help getting Rae back.

In our situation, DFCS served only as facilitator to get in front of a judge and put pressure on difficult child 1 and hubby. Now that sister in law has legal custody, her only involvement with DFCS is with benefits for a ward (who GA law sees as a separate family unit, thus not subject to the same income limitations that sister in law's kids would be.)

In our situation, this was the smart way to go. It puts up more roadblocks to them regaining custody. Now, not only do they have to get jobs and housing, but hire a lawyer and file a petition. It meant sister in law had to give up the possibility of a stipend, but since I still have control over difficult child 1's trust (what little is left, anyway) I pay child support on difficult child 1's behalf. Technically, I was suppose to cut her a check for the balance when she turned 18, but she knows the $$ goes to Rae and she'd play holy heck if she tried to take me to court over it. (And we all know the likelihood of difficult child 1 actually paying the support herself if I were to turn over the trust. I'd have a better chance of winning the lottery twice in one week.)

It might pay to give a call to DFCS/CPS in your area and ask for their advice in regards to the grands. In our case, DFCS recommended getting a signed agreement first. It was only after that & realizing we (sister in law and I) were right about difficult child 1 that they helped us make it official. Thanks to them, no one had to put out money for an attorney, and DFCS was there to back sister in law up if difficult child 1 and hubby had tried to come take Rae back with only the temp agreement in place. They would have IMMEDIATELY filed for custody and removed Rae to foster care had difficult child 1 tried to void the agreement. (Hence making it a part of difficult child 1's safety plan, so they could document need for immediate placement if need be.)

 

[1905]

Or If they won't agree to anything, maybe you could call CPS yourself. You can add what the shelter staff doesn't know- that one kid has rotten teeth, another child has needed glasses for a year(!). You could present yourself to them right off the bat as wanting the kids, but you would need their benefits to take care of them.

I'm sure CPS would investigate and the shelter staff has their own opinions to add by now.

These 2 don't make any progress, but they do lie a lot. In reality, even if they both got jobs they wouldn't be making much. And they would never even save anything, look what happened to the 900. It all went to stupid stuff. At this point, the kids need care, they need to be safe. The parents aren't capable.

 

[FlowerGarden]

If you can, talk to a lawyer to see how to go about it first. I agree the grandkids shouldn't have to suffer. I think they will be so happy to be with you and they will be so much healthier.

 

[Mattsmom277]

I don't think whatever you do if you do take the grands in to stay, would be devious. I would have given an arm, a leg, my first born even, to have had someone in my family do something to take my brother and I in. My mother was incapable of child raising and she never "learned". We paid the price for her life choices. Foster care was the end result for my brother and I, a round robin of cycled foster placements with brief periods where my mother was given a "chance" over and over.

I don't hold it against any family members for NOT taking my brother and I in to their homes, there is a lot of consideration into things like this and it can't be an easy decision. I know they loved us, it wasn't a lack of love that prevented them from stepping in. HOWEVER, had any of them been able to/in a position to take us in, I can only wonder why our lives might have been like.

So, if it is in you and husband's hearts and in your capabilities, those kids can only benefit. I'm not at all "for" taking kids from the custody of their bio parents. BUT when parents choices harm their kids, its always going to be in the best interests of the kids to be loved in a home by others with stability than to be harmed over and over. And emotional harm, psychological damage from moving around, shelters, different schools, no money, no food, no independence, etc is often more scarring than even physical harm.

If you decide that this is the right step for you and husband to take, perhaps first give the option to difficult child and her s/o to do right and sign voluntarily and to make terms with you that YOU can live with in terms of their visiting, what must happen for kids to go back to them etc. And if they can't/won't agree, I'd not hesitate to call CPS. It isn't about punishing difficult child and s/o about their poor choices if you are forced to contact CPS to have the grands placed in your care. It would be about protecting the children from the poor choices of the 2 adults who continously put their own selfish wants and needs before the crucial foundations required for raising healthy balanced secure feeling children.

I just want to say I admire you for even considering taking the grands in. I know it isn't an easy decision to make, and I admire you regardless of how you end up handling this. If they come to you I can see things improving for the kids. But something tells me with gramma on the scene, even if they don't come live with you, you will make good decisions to influence what does go on with them to hopefully minimize the impact their parents choices have on them.

You're a great mother and a great grandmother.