What IS it lately w/mental illness and shooters?

[TerryJ2]

Sheesh!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...6pLid%3D192149

[Star*]

And I have to ask ---------WHY guns on others? I mean if you are TRULY mentally ill and don't want to around people- there are lots of ways to be alone. If these jokers and that was not a play on words either for that man in Aurora - I do NOT believe he is mentally ill - but if these people are given "mental" insanity pleas - This country is going to get VERY TOUGH on gun law - even for hunters.

[Hound dog]

Star, I'm with you. Ok, if you really wanna do yourself in........then IMO that is your business and have at it. But I will never understand why on earth you would feel the need to take someone else with you, most especially a group of strangers.

Sadly, gun laws won't do a blasted thing to help. Because there will always be a criminal element dealing in guns. Laws only makes it more profitable. It gives the public a false sense of security. Because even an insane person doing this type of thing is not going to stop and worry about a gun law, they'll find a way to get one and do it anyway or simply choose another method which could easily be worse. Only thing gun laws do is make society less apt to protect themselves in a world of ever increasing violence.

[witzend]

They think that they're going to be famous.

[TerryJ2]

Could be, Witz.

In regard to taking others w/you, that's exactly what his mother said.

[InsaneCdn]

But I will never understand why on earth you would feel the need to take someone else with you, most especially a group of strangers.



Read more: http://www.conductdisorders.com/foru...#ixzz23aIIje6K

Well... I can relate on some level to "feeling the need to take someone else with you".

Workplace shootings, school shootings... where the person has been mistreated (not always is that the case, but often is)... it seems like the intent is to inflict as much pain on "everyone else" as they have had to deal with in life, before they "leave". It's a way of lashing back at those who have hurt you. No, it's not the best answer. But... that could have been my kid. I can see the kind of path, the kind of experiences, that could result in this.

But... mass killings of random strangers? That part I don't get.

[SuZir]

Well... I can relate on some level to "feeling the need to take someone else with you".

Workplace shootings, school shootings... where the person has been mistreated (not always is that the case, but often is)... it seems like the intent is to inflict as much pain on "everyone else" as they have had to deal with in life, before they "leave". It's a way of lashing back at those who have hurt you. No, it's not the best answer. But... that could have been my kid. I can see the kind of path, the kind of experiences, that could result in this.

But... mass killings of random strangers? That part I don't get.

It could had been my kid too. So I do kind of get it. Even mass killing random strangers. It seems that in that point, everyone is 'one of those', it doesn't matter any more if they are those same people who wronged you, it is enough they are people. School and workplace shootings seem to be about revenge and many of those who kill random strangers still seem to profile the same. For example just few days ago they published this big report about Breivik-case (he is that Norweigian guy who set up a bomb near government building (8 dead) and after that proceed to kill 69 people (mostly kids) who were in political affiliated camp in the island.) He too psychologically profiles like a school shooter, being ostracised on the young age, radicalising through internet, hate for humanity etc. I'm not sure if they have the report fully out in English, but part of his background was interesting. And kind of chilling.

And then there are of course those who are acutely mentally ill. We had a case like that few years ago. There was this well educate, smart professional woman with good job. In short time she fell very badly ill with paranoid schizophrenia and before people even really got that she was really that ill, she killed several people while thinking she was part of some intelligence agency secret war or something. She thought she was only protecting herself or justice.

For the first type of shooters police can do something. taking threats seriously, actively monitoring more extreme webpages, gun laws etc. For really mentally ill the options are in the health care. I have not yet seen the country there mental health is well treated in the system. There is a lot to be done in that area.

And then there is of course also prevention of those wrongfulnesses. Work against bullying, making schools safe and caring places for kids etc. One can always dream.

[Dammit Janet]

Star I would love to know why you dont think the Aurora shooter is mentally ill. I fully believe he is severely mentally ill. He has all the classic signs of a slide straight into paranoid schizophrenia. He was an extremely brilliant young man all his life from all accounts and then in his late teens/early 20's all that fell apart and it became overwhelming to him. That is often the classic time for schizophrenia to rear its head in adults. They can appear somewhat normal but maybe just a bit eccentric but people expect that from brilliant people. While I wish this had something to do with an insanity plea, it really doesnt because he most likely did know right from wrong. I think that is a stupid way to measure the insanity plea. I think a true diagnosis and if someone has had ongoing treatment for a disorder is a better way to measure it. You can tell now with brain scans and such.

I do believe with medications he can be controlled in a forensic psychiatric hospital. I dont believe he belongs in a regular prison setting. I dont believe he will get the adequate help he needs. He needs ongoing long term psychiatric care. No I dont think he should ever get out but I think he should be in the forensic hospital instead of jail.

Oh, and most of these shooters have never gotten treatment as children and teens. That is one thing that is almost universal among them all. None of them have been in treatment like the parents here have done. While some of us have worried about things like this, I dont think its a real worry because I have yet to hear of one of these shooters who have been in long term psychiatric care from childhood.

[Hound dog]

Aurora? Is that the Co one? (sorry my memory thing)

If so, I agree with you Janet. After living with my Mom........well, let's just say it was so obvious that was ridiculous......... to me, to anyone really familiar with paranoid schizo. I had to do my own background research on my Mom. My biodad confirmed it. (he had no clue the info I was actually looking for) He'd known / dated my mom since she was like 13/14 yrs old (he's only 2 yrs older). They married young, she was just 18 and he was 20. He came home one day when she was about 21-22 (ages of kids at the time tells me how old she is) and he said it was like walking in on a complete stranger. It only got worse from there. Oh, there would be good days where she was more normalish.....but they grew fewer and farther between until eventually the marriage fell apart. He didn't completely blame her either. He said he should've done something, found out what was wrong, but he didn't. Her symptoms showed up in the classic time frame, well the full blown symptom anyway. Many pdocs believe strongly that symptoms appear throughout life but at a younger age they are much more mild ect and can often be over looked. Adding in the info I got from biodad to things I already knew about her in association with family members, neighbors, co workers, ect.......there just was no doubt. It was there all along but didn't kick in full blown until her early 20's.

And more the most part, Mom can maintain as far as the general public is concerned. You'd probably not suspect a thing, especially if not familiar with mental illness or schizo....unless it was a pretty bad day or you saw her all of the time. I worked in a hospital with my mom before I married dh. I floated all over the hospital to work, so I often worked on her floor. Her co workers thought her strange and tended to avoid her, most especially avoid her "bad side". kwim? They noticed it far more than anyone else outside of the family.

Problem is, when most people think schizo......they think of people who believe themselves to be Jesus or George Washington or whatever......But not many (at least in my experience) are like that. It's a stereotype, not the real deal. So the public looks at this guy and say he's faking to get off. Trust me, you might be able to fake a lot of dxes, but I really think it would be tough, if not impossible, to fake schizo. You'd have to be one hellova actor.

[slsh]

IMHO - *this* is the problem: "A forensic psychiatrist who interviewed Sparks recently called him "imminently dangerous" and said his psychosis is directed intently at Crow."

So they've got this psychotic dangerous guy making death threats against Sheryl Crow and Harvey Weinstein, and - woo-hoo - they were able to get a restraining order. Sorry, but that's just pathetic. It sure wouldn't help me to sleep any better at night. At best, they can get the guy arrested (arrested, not treated) if/when he violates RO - but then you're left praying that *all* he does is violate RO.

It's probably not politically correct, but if there are folks out there who are dangerous and throwing up red flags to professionals (a la Arizona and Colorado), there needs to be a more concrete system to ensure that they are not given the opportunity to commit dangerous acts. I don't know if the law is still in effect, but when we lived in WA state, if a predator served his time but was considered still highly likely to reoffend, he could be locked up in a mental health facility until he was deemed to no longer be a threat, even after his prison sentence was served. Again, I may get slammed for thinking this, but what is the difference between a predator and a mentally ill person who is "imminently dangerous"?

We lock up folks w/ TB when they refuse treatment - is mental illness, in some cases, any less of a public safety issue?

Seems to me the holes in the MH system keep getting bigger and bigger, and everyone is passing the buck.