Thank you Chris Cuomo for saying outloud that parents can't force help on adult kids+

[Signorina]

I am not sure if my link will work - but Chris Cuomo was on The View today and - like every other media outlet - the question was raised about James Holmes (CO shooter) parents culpability in their son's downfall. The View asked nicely and for that I am grateful - but he answered succinctly that a parent can't force help on a child once they become an adult...

I am especially sensitive about this - after being at PC's College orientation this weekend and being fed a lot of "they are adults now that they're 18, we can't release information, we can't control them, we can't take your calls, you need to let go and let them be independent, blah blah blah" while at the same time being told it was up to us to instill values and have conversations about morals and behavior standards and watch for depression warning signs, out of control spending, declining grade (only after the adult child has willingly shared them) etc, etc, etc - totally an oxymoron. And of course I was way sensitive to begin with - after my experience with gfg's college dean. You love nurture, raise this kid for 17 years and 364 days and at 18 years - society says you no longer have a vested interest in the well being of your son or daughter. It's almost a hostile suspicion that you are simply a control freak, overbearing or helicoptering. Yet - if the kid fails in a blazing fashion - the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the parents.

Anyway, if you're bored and my link worked - it's nice to hear his response...

http://theview.abc.go.com/blog/legal...t-james-holmes

[pinevalley]

Yes, your link worked, and I am glad that Chris Cuomo stated emphatically that you can not force help on anyone when they are over 18 years old. It sounds like he is also very concerned about the stigma and suffering caused by mental illness, and that is a conversation that really needs to happen now. There are too many people who have mental issues but who refuse to get help because that are ashamed to have the stigma of a mental illness.

Thanks for sharing this link.

[Calamity Jane]

Very good clip, Sig. Thanks. I liked how Cuomo kept bringing the topic around to mental illness and its stigma, and the over 18 thing. He also is right when he says these mass shootings occur far too frequently and there becomes a "sameness" about them. Unfortunately, I agree.
If you contrast what Cuomo says about guns/mental illness with what NYC mayor Bloomberg says, it's interesting. Cuomo says there are plenty of laws on the books about guns, but mental illness is always going to trump laws. Mentally ill are underserved, and these kinds of mass shootings are almost always done by mentally ill. If I'm paraphrasing him correctly, Bloomberg says that there's statistically the equivalent number of mentally ill people in Europe as there are in US, but the mentally ill in Europe have a much harder time getting access to guns than they do here in America. Bloomberg is very anti-gun and makes no bones about it.
However, if that's true, then what about that guy in Norway who killed something like 30 people last year? IDK.....

[StepTo2]

I can't see the link from work, but kudos to him for saying it in a public forum.

As for "these kinds of mass shootings are almost always done by the mentally ill"... OK, I suffer from depression and PTSD, my kid is bipolar, my entire family has major Aspie traits, one BFF is BPD and sometimes suicidal - but I still cannot see a "normal" person doing something like this. (Now define normal. Go ahead. Whatever your normal is, it won't be mine. And mine won't be the same as the jury that tries Holmes.) I do believe that he had severe MH issues. I also believe he hid it very, very well - if Onyxx can hide hers (mostly), and she is only 17---? But, OTOH, the seeming premeditation, to me, tosses the insanity plea right out the door.

But then again, there was a time when I firmly believed Onyxx might try to do something like this. So her now and her then don't match. I can sympathize with Holmes' mother when she said they had the right guy. Because even before they are an adult - here at age 14, unless they are on probation, you can't force MH help on them.

[InsaneCdn]

Bloomberg says that there's statistically the equivalent number of mentally ill people in Europe as there are in US, but the mentally ill in Europe have a much harder time getting access to guns than they do here in America. Bloomberg is very anti-gun and makes no bones about it.
However, if that's true, then what about that guy in Norway who killed something like 30 people last year? IDK.....

Statistics don't work at the detail level.
There are far fewer gun-based rampages in Europe, but that doesn't make them impossible. Canada is somewhere between the US and Europe in terms of statistics. Here, they say that guns do not increase the incidence of violence, just the degree of carnage.

Once a person reaches insanity, any pre-meditation to the behavior is not rational either.

[StepTo2]

Once a person reaches insanity, any pre-meditation to the behavior is not rational either.

Very true - however - there has to be some calculation. And the insanity plea says otherwise (though that's not necessarily what is true.)

[InsaneCdn]

An insane person is capable of thought, logic, and pre-meditated behavior. But none of it is rooted in reality, nor controlled by social norms or conscience. "Insane" doesn't mean "incapable"... It is almost as though the "human" part of their brain is lost.

[StepTo2]

IC, you're completely correct. But "not guilty by reason of insanity" is for heat-of-the-moment, not prepared and "rational"...

[InsaneCdn]

Maybe a US/Canada difference? Here... heat-of-the-moment isn't necessarily insanity, but it would reduce the charges - from murder to manslaughter, for example. And insanity isn't necessarily heat-of-the-moment.

Spltting hairs, really. Sad truth is... if we had the resources to deal with the MH/MI problems before it came to this... there would be far less. Not zero - we are not guaranteed to even find everyone who needs help - but significant reduction.

[Kathy813]

I read a newspaper article that said that the mother's statement was not reported correctly. She was asked if she was the mother of of the shooter and she said, "You have the right person" meaning herself. At that point, I don't think she even knew what they were calling about.

As far as the shootings that happen in other places like Norway, I think you have to consider the number of mass shootings in countries with strict gun control laws and the US. Yes, they happen there, too, but not as frequently.

I almost laugh out loud when I read comments about forcing GFG adults to get mental health treatment. These probably are the same people who are against the affordable health care act. Who is going to pay for the expensive mental health treatment even if we could force adult GFGs into treatment?

~Kathy