Waiting for the rain to start....

[mom_in_training]

Good for you Mikey [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/9-07bravo.gif[/img] Your taking your house back.... I told my gfg the same thing, Let your Homies take care of you. That is what she called them. Druggys, Homies, all the same to me. Good for you Dad!!!!!

[Ephchap]

Mikey,

I apologize for not responding to many of your posts lately. I've been knee deep in family chaos.

Congrats on getting thicker skinned, and in realizing that your son is doing everything he can to get away with whatever he can.

I do agree that we all have to do what works for us and what we can live with, but I am a bit amazed that you know he's out drugging, getting stoned, but your line in the sand seems to be his curfew. Talk of prom and helping pay for it, knowing he's out there drugging is something I couldn't/wouldn't tolerate - but again, you need to do what you feel you and your wife can life with.

Drugs was my line in the sand. No living in my house while drugging - and no, that did not necessarily mean my son was bringing the drugs home or getting high in my house - but I would not allow him to live there - and we did basically "force" inpatient RTC treament twice, once at age 14 and the next time just after his 17th birthday. It was just something I was not going to live with.

I hope your son turns things around before he does reach adult status. Again, I applaud that you and your wife are on the same page now and that you are working the Do to Get theory, but I still question the knowing he's out getting stoned, and you're still pondering helping him pay for prom. Again, it's all about what you are willing to tolerate.

Hang in there.

Deb

[Mikey]

Hi Deb. Thanks for the reply, and I hope your recent chaos has calmed down a bit.

I have more info since the last time I posted to this thread. GFG UA tests came back. As expected, positive for THC, negative for everything else. Random, unexpected check, so I doubt he had time to "prepare" for it. THC levels were low, just above threshold for a positive reading. So, I guess the good thing from that is he hasn't replaced his pot "smoking" with anything other than another way to get THC into his system.

Didn't get the exact numbers, but doc says the level wasn't that "high" (sorry for the pun, but I couldn't resist [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img] )

On another note, both DW and I (and my son) are starting to realize some things. He's had mono for the last week, and been stuck in the house. How many of his stoner friends came to see him? Zero. How many came to see him when he nearly died from asthma? 2, and only for a couple of minutes. When he's not actively seeking out their company, they don't seem to miss him a bit. And frankly, he doesn't seem to miss them much, either.

So, he's been pot-free for nearly two weeks, and while he's been more pleasant to be around, he hasn't gone off the deep end from pot withdrawal.

All this seems to reinforce his therapist's belief that drugs aren't the issue, only a symptom. DW, therapist and I think that gfg actively seeks out that group and culture as a place to hide, not because he's a druggie. His tests never bear out his boasts as a "major pothead", he doesn't really miss his friends when he can't see them (and they don't seem to miss him, either), and both his behaviour and schoolwork have improved dramatically with a change in schools (still acting out, not as much). We're thinking that the change in schools put him in a position to succeed, so stress went down and need to "escape" went down as well.

So, DW and I are very hesitant to approach gfg problems from the standpoint of "drugs first". In all honesty, I'm starting to think that gfg originally sought that crowd out because of our frequent moves earlier in his life. That group doesn't ask anything of you, nor does anyone else ask (or expect) anything from a bunch of potheads.

It's a quiet, dark cave where he can hide from the world; nobody expects anything from him, he doesn't have to form any attachments (which can lead to pain), and he doesn't have to accomplish anything. Instant companionship without attachment.

Now, that's not to say that he doesn't like pot. I like booze - still do. But I've been sober for many, many years, by my own choice. He likes pot, but not in the same way as the crowd he hangs with: they live for pot, they do everything they can to ensure the availabiliity of next joint/bowl, and they have no ambition or desire to be anything but what they are.

GFG is different - he has goals, he has desires, he does NOT live for pot (even though he enjoys it), and while he has lost many of his hobbies and other interests, he has yet to degenerate into the typical pothead basement-dwelling couch potato. In fact, while the rest of his friends are continuing to sink, he's started to float upwards a bit (or at least not sink any lower).

Okay, that's a long, long way to say that pot is a problem, but not the problem we're working with him on. Our current thought is that if we can keep his usage from getting worse (and the docs are doing a good job scaring him into that), we can work on the other issues that make him seek out that group and lifestyle.

He's shown he's capable of change. He's made a decent start. We're going to try and encourage and support him as long as he makes progress. BUT - if he starts to slide again, or if he starts becoming more defiant and acting out more, then it'll be time to bring out the big guns. Until then, Xanax is my friend, and I'll try to be patient and see if he continues to make progress at his own pace (rather than force the issue - and deal with the conflict I KNOW will follow).

Okay, time to tell me how deluded I am...

Thanks,

Mikey

[Ephchap]

LOL, Mikey, I don't know that deluded is the term I was going to use. What I was going to mention is that "most", and obviously that isn't "all" kids to turn to drugs as a way of self-medicating. Getting to the root cause is the best way to help stop the addiction. That being said, drugging is still drugging.

My son self-medicated as well. Pot wasn't the main issue, but he was smoking pot, which is drugging. He had been diagnosed with ADHD at about age 7, then OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) at age 13. Add some depression in there (which IMHO, stemmed from the pot smoking), and there was trouble. If he was getting high all the time, he couldn't get up to go to school, his moods were all over the place. He wasn't very pleasant to live with.

This is why I always suggested dual-diagnostic treatment facilities to people. Just dealing with the addiction usually isn't enough. You need to deal with the underlying cause and the substance abuse separately, and ultimately, together.

As I said, we all do what we can live with. I just wouldn't accept drugging. That was a huge issue for me - perhaps because I'd watched my mom enable my older alcoholic brother for so many years. I knew that I was not willing to live like that, and therefore, would not tolerate my son doing what he was doing. If I couldn't stop my son from going out and getting high while living in my home, then we made other arrangements - the two RTC stays. He wasn't really given a choice in the matter.

Many of our kids on here had/have goals also. My son, like many on here, has a gifted IQ. That doesn't mean squat in the real world if you're going to go out and drug and break the law. He never finished high school because of all the absences and because of changing schools 3 times in an effort to make things better. He lost too many credits. He did go for his GED a year after he should have graduated, which is the earliest you can take it here in Michigan (I think they don't want kids to leave high school and taking the GED instead, so they make them wait). He was also a vey gifted hockey player, but threw that all away too. Now when he sees some of his old teammates playing in the NHL, he shakes his head and realizes what he threw away. Goals and dreams came and went because of drugs.

Trust me, I'm certainly not passing any judgements. As I've repeated over and over, every person is different, and every scenario is different. We all do what we feel is best for our situation. I am also pulling for your son to turn things around and fully support your efforts.

Deb

[jbrain]

Hi,
Mikey, I think I agree with you on this. Sounds like your son isn't really a "pothead" so to speak. My oldest (son) lives at our house but works about 50 or more hrs per week and basically takes care of himself (I don't do his laundry, he eats leftovers or makes his own food, buys much of his own food, etc.) and I'm pretty sure he smokes pot (mostly because gfg1 has told me he does). I don't really care as long as he is working, functioning, not doing it at my house, and I really wouldn't know he is doing it except for gfg1 always giving me info I'd rather remain ignorant about! Of course he is 22 yrs old so I am not responsible for him but I see the difference between him and gfg1 when she was living for drugs and couldn't go to school, was living on the streets, etc. There is a huge difference between the two. Also, I was a pretty regular pot smoker myself for several years--I think I was lazier because of it but still was a responsible person. I wasn't living to get high, it was a recreational thing.

Okay, fire your guns everyone!

Jane

[KFld]

Glad his thc levels were low and nothing else showed up. Sounds like he's making some effort to move forward and hopefully he will realize how many of his friends haven't missed him and he will continue to move foward.

[mom_in_training]

"In fact, while the rest of his friends are continuing to sink, he's started to float upwards a bit (or at least not sink any lower)."

And what do you wanna bet that the parents of those kiddos are doing nothing to pull their kids back in the hopes that they will travel down a different path.(A good path).

Wow, I have to say Mikey your gfg certainly puts you through hoops.... Wow, Mono? Geeze, What next. I'm glad to hear that his thc levels were low and it would be even better if in a few weeks that he has none in his system at all. I know your pulling good (Low levels) out of the bad (Illegal drug use) knowing that it could be worse and I think that its awesome that he is showing improvement along with no evidence of any other drugs in his system. Hopefully this trend will lead him to becoming totally drug free. It is true about the friends, They could care less. They tend to only stay in tune to the buddys that are participating along with them otherwise they just forget about ya.

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mom_in_training</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"...And what do you wanna bet that the parents of those kiddos are doing nothing to pull their kids back in the hopes that they will travel down a different path.(A good path)...</div></div>

Hmmm... Let's see:

Friend #1 (F1): Parents were crackheads, dad probably still smokes pot. F1 broke his wrist skateboarding - I bandaged it up and told him to get to the hospital. Went to his house the next day, Dad said "well, it didn't seem to be bothering him, so I didn't take him. He's out boarding now, so I guess it's okay..." F1 has broken several bones, never been to a doctor, parent's don't care. Probably never notices the pain because he's stoned day and night.

Friend #2 (F2): Dropout, works, but stays stoned all the time. Comes and goes when he wants (he's 17), comes in drunk and nobody cares. Stays out all night and nobody cares.

Friend #3 (F3): Dad is still toking; F3 lived in basement, and got a joint thrown down the stairs to her by dear old dad whenever she flicked the stairway lights. Was the local pothead hangout until F3 moved somewhere else (probably because her dad heard that the cops were going to be called for letting kids smoke and cook hash oil in his house).

Friend #4 (F4): Divorced parents, goes to same alternative school. Parents don't care what she does. Her house was the local pothead hangout (in the parking lot, anyway) until F3 came along. Nice girl, major league pothead, got sent to alt ed school as "last chance" because of drug and other problems.

Friend #5 (F5) Especially sad. Mom got preggers at 16 to spite her parents, married a rich local man (lots of those in this county). Kid is spoiled rotten, money to burn, parents financed his Mustang Cobra for him, lets him come in late at night with no questions asked. Often lets his friends hang out overnight to dry out or come down. Is a drunk himself. Funny enough, F5's mom built a new million-dollar house out in "the country" to get F5 out of their neighborhood - it seems that there were several parents nearby who put on booze parties for their teens, and she didn't want her son influenced by "those people".

Former Friend #6 (F6): Tourette's, other disorders, severe ADD. Stays stoned day and night, parents let him toke up because he's easier to manage stoned than sober. His dad once rolled him "the best joint he ever smoked". No longer a friend because he didn't invite my son over one night when he was toking up with someone else - lied and said he was grounded (sheesh - can you imagine someone getting angry because you lied to them about when you were smoking a joint?)

Friend #7 (F7): On house arrest for posession of pot and drug paraphanalia. All three sons smoke cigs in/around the house, and cause their parents lots of grief. My gfg son is F7's current chauffeur to/from the few places allowed by house arrest. Unfortunately, F7's sister is my PC daughter's best friend.

Need I go on? I could, but it's too depressing. The only thing they all have in common, though, is that the parents are either too defeated, too busy, too sympathetic towards drugs, too ovewhelmed, or simply too ****ed ignorant to care.

And how, oh how, did my kid ever wander into this swamp? Granted, it was partly because I wasn't looking, but how did he ever end up with such a wonderful group of "friends"? With friends like that, it's a wonder he can make any progress at all.

Pardon me while I go barf and eat some more Xanax...

[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/faint.gif[/img]

Mikey

[KFld]

The key is staying away from those type of friends, but at his age it is so hard. I remember being a teenager and if my parents ever said, you can't hang around with x,y and z anymore, I would have said, YEAH RIGHT!!! I remember trying that with my gfg when I felt a few of his friends were bad influences, and all it did was cause him to lie about where he was going.

Hopefully your son will find some different, more positive friends, because as long as he's hanging with the same ones, it will be very difficult for him to not participate in whatever they are doing.

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KFld</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The key is staying away from those type of friends, but at his age it is so hard. I remember being a teenager and if my parents ever said, you can't hang around with x,y and z anymore, I would have said, YEAH RIGHT!!! I remember trying that with my gfg when I felt a few of his friends were bad influences, and all it did was cause him to lie about where he was going.

Hopefully your son will find some different, more positive friends, because as long as he's hanging with the same ones, it will be very difficult for him to not participate in whatever they are doing. </div></div>

That's been my experience. He blatantly admitted that he'd spend "hours" dreaming up elaborate schemes to hang out with these people in ways that we wouldn't suspect. Finally came clean when he got busted a few times for these lies. Stopped lying when I told him I'd prefer that he defiantly tell me what he's doing and run off rather than lie, in which case we have NO idea who he's with or where he is.

So far, I've gotten pretty much exactly what I've asked for...
[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/1010hammer.gif[/img]
But knowing what he's doing, and who he's with is better (for me) than not knowing - even if I don't like it or agree with it. And it works both ways. Beforehand, he would concoct these lies and become indignant if we didn't believe him (or followed up on him, which is how he got busted). Now, if he chooses to act out against our wishes, we also have the license to be nosy, aggravating, stalking parents, and he doesn't have a leg to stand on and complain. He can't have it both ways, and found that out a few weeks ago (I see that now, with the help of the good folks here on CD).

So no, I can't pick his friends, nor can I keep him from hanging with them unless I'm willing to have him locked up or kick him out of the house. Unless I'm missing something, the only thing I can do is continue to patiently work with him and his therapist to help him see his life for what it truly is. Then, he'll either see the need for change, or he won't. I agree that forcing the issue will only make the matter worse.

Don't know what the "final" answer is, but this is the only one we have at the moment that's shown any hope of success. Until something better comes along, or things get worse....

Mikey