I think we need to define TT versus GFG

[hearts and roses]

Keep in mind that there are other support sites where TT means Troubled Teen.

When I'm here, I understand that we're referring to a TypicalTeen as in self absorbed and kind of obnoxious but not over the top.

It's very VERY difficult to differentiate between TT behavior and GFG behavior, but most of the time, if you learn to read your kid well, you will know which is which. At least, after a while, maybe.

[LittleDudesMom]

I think Janet's description is a good one. But I also believe that you really have to take it case by case. There are many things that my gfg does, or does not do, that are tt things and things I might have seen pc do. Then there are other things he does that pc would never do but I wouldn't necessarily say they gfg things, just personality quirks or traits that are his alone. His gfgness is not to blame, it's just who he is.

If the behavior becomes dangerous, threatens family stability or is very self absorbing, it's probably gfg related.

Sharon

[lmf64]

TT whose parent is unemployed deals with the unemployment without calling home from school screaming at parent about the unemployed parent being at fault for everything in their life. GFG calls home 6 times in 30 minutes to repreat the it's all your fault mantra.

[jbrain]

A TT recognizes the parent as an authority figure. A gfg does not. Let's say you ground your teenage kid. A TT will make you miserable but a gfg will either make you miserable or just sneak out. And, a TT seems capable of learning from his/her mistakes. A gfg just keeps making them over and over--maybe because it is someone else's fault all the time.

This is an interesting thread!

Jane

[MidwestMom]

I am raising a TT right now and one of my older sons was a TT.

TT's may challenge your authority, but they will accept it. They do not like to lose their privileges and eventually may sulk, but accept the consequences and, like Janet says, they don't kick the wall or punch you.

TT's don't break the law for fun or become intrigued with the "bad" kids. My daughter thinks the bad kids are losers. TT's often talk to their parents about their lives and it's pleasantly not always a list of why their life is so rotten. They also usually have a lot of positive friends and interests. My daughter is a big girl jock.

TT's imo don't start sex at 12 and 13. They think before they act and are not overly impulsive to the point that trouble follows them. They don't WANT to get into trouble and they are able to control themselves. GFG's either can't control it or dont' control it. They certainly act before they think.

TT's get into trouble and make bad choices, but they learn from them and don't keep repeating them.

TT's tend to have better self-esteem than gfgs. They also tend to have good social skills so they don't alienate people. They understand social norms.

My oldest daughter, the ex-drug addict, had a liable temperament, was overly sensitive, felt like an outcast at school (that is what started the drug use...to fit in), took bold, scary chances, cut herself, had many tantrums, and put up a few bogus suicide attempts. This is NOT a typical teen...lol.

There is quite a difference. N., my thirteen year old, is a lot of fun. By 13, J. was already into drugs and collecting a hodge-podge of misfits as friends.
J. was no fun at all as a teenager!

[KTMom91]

Interesting thread!

My only experience with a TT was while Son #2 lived with us, and he was night and day different from Miss KT. When he decided he didn't want to be part of the family, it took less than 24 hours of our ignoring him, not calling him to dinner, etc. before he decided he was better off in the family. Miss KT just didn't care.

[susiestar]

Excellent discussion. I have begun to see many disturbing things written off as TT. Mostly because no one wants to deal with it, at least that is what I am seeing.

Jess developed way early. Bras in 4th and 5th grade early. When she went to middle school the boys would use crowded hallways to grope her. Full on grab and feel her up. NOT "just" bra strap snapping, actual molestation.

The school principal and her homeroom teacher told me that this was TT behavior and to be "expected". They "couldn't do anything" because the halls were too crowded. The homeroom teacher was fresh out of college, not even 22 and flatter than a pancake. She actually SAID that Jessie should wrap ace bandages around her chest to flatten her and if jessie didn't then she "WANTED" the boys to feel her up.

THAT is ABUSE. NOT TT. So many many things are now said to be "TT" that would have meant "JUVIE" when I was a teen.

TT, IMO, means dramatic, self absorbed, loves phone and friends and hates school and rules. But mostly follows the rules, is involved in things, and often has a smart mouth but is rarely outright defiant w/o actual provocation.

That is my opinion, and I agree with Janet's description.

TT has become too easy a way to not deal with unacceptable behavior, IMO.

[Marguerite]

I think we have different ideas of what makes a TT. But then - what IS normal, in our household, anyway?

I described my eldest as PC. But some of her behaviours would definitely have fallen into GFG territory.

* Incredibly egocentric. "Where's mine?" was her frequent cry, especially if she came home from a party (having been eating party food, very special) to find we'd eaten a meal that was also a favourite of hers. She wasn't in need of food, just didn't want us to have anything she hadn't, even if she had had stuff we hadn't.

* a catalyst for fighting between household members - she would come home from uni (she lived with grandma during the week) and within minutes of her arrival home, people would be screaming at one another. Every freakin' time. And remember, I said 'uni'. She was legally an adult at this time.

* at times loudly defiant and aggressive. She did draw te line at physical attack, however. But then - so did PC2/GFG2.

* Even now in her late 20s, she can have serious anxiety problems. They were appalling when she was in her teens.

* capable of being sneaky and dishonest, was the earliest of my kids to become sexually active at about 15 or 16 (although not promiscuous - is now married to her first and only sexual partner). And lied about it, until her first UTI caught her out.

Whenever I've used the term "TT" what I've been trying to say, is that sometimes even a PC can be a big handful, epseically in their teens and especially if they have psychological damage to deal with. PC was molested at the age of 5, by an older boy (and I tihnk some oters) in the school playground. Just because it was "just another kid" doesn't mean it was any less damaging to her. She took two years to tell us anything, and then clammed up and refused to cooperate with therapy. Now she's an adult she wangts to deal with it but has buried it so deep she only knows it happened intellectually. But the damage continues, I believe.

I believe like a lot of other factors, TT is a spectrum. For PC, life hasn't been easy. She's grown up in a dysfunctional family. She's the only child to really remember me when I was not disabled and I beleive has resented me for becoming disabled. She then is angry at herself for being unfair and again, this becomes buried. Not healthy.

When I look back at some of the battles we had with PC, when I think of the things she told us about allegedly TT girls we all knew (who were using drugs and sleeping around in their early teens and their parents never knew, still don't know) then perhaps my concept of TT is more elastic than for many of you.

So when does the label change to become a GFG one? For me, it is when the problems become so great that they require intervention of some sort, either meds, or therapy or a serious modificaiton of parenting methods. When a disability is diagnosed and treatment put in place. When the parents have to go to further lengths than normal, to support that child towards the goal of a normal, healthy, independent and happy adult life.

Marg

[tiredmommy]

I don't have a teen but I'd have to hazard a guess that TT behavior is mostly not dangerous and/or will be grown out of by the teen given a reasonable period of time w/out outside interventions. A TT may dress, for example, in a way that is distasteful to his parents or other elders but quickly figures out how to dress appropriately when looking for a part time job. Even if they hate it! The kid with the purple hair that has a shot of getting into a good college most likely will take the interview seriously enough to dye her hair back au natural. They do enough school work to at least pass a class even if they're capable of excelling. They might be perpetually angry with their parents but reach out when they need them.

A gfg tends to take things to extreme and push the limits consistently. They either don't care about consequences or aren't capable of meeting expectations. They spite themselves and hurt those they love... and sometimes feel horrible about it. They are often slaves to their impulses and insecurities. They often resent authority because, IMHO, not measuring up makes them feel inadequate especially as their peers are beginning to find their way in the world.

[DazedandConfused]

I made a comment a couple of weeks ago that Wm had an element of typical teen because he didn't want his goals to be "boring". I hear that a lot from TTs and it stuck me when you wrote that about Wm.

Is he TT? No way.