My kicked-around Kindergartener

[Running_for_the_shelter]

We had a very poor day yesterday. The executive summary is that my gfg (Kindergarten) got pushed to the ground and kicked around by four boys which would have been enough drama for one day, but he went and topped this after school by poking his sister in the eye with a pencil. We're told we're lucky she didn't need surgery. If gfg were a little older and the lead boy not so troubled, I'd know what to do. As it is, I can only be grateful DH volunteers at his class 2 days a week.

Gfg, despite his many authority and impulse issues, is a happy, social animal. Every place he's attended (and there have been a few), he's always become part of a clique of 4-5 boys who race around and are kind of obnoxious. He's been at this school for a month and a half and has a variety of friends. Now, there is also a cub in his class whom I consider deeply troubled. "Charlie" has a history of trying to seriously hurt smaller children. The stories about him chill your blood. Some consider him to be the next Charles Manson and figure they'll be reading about him in the paper in the future. Of course, gfg wants to play with him.

It is not clear what happened. These playground incidents seldom are because they happen so fast. Apparently, gfg wanted to play with this group of four boys which included Charlie. The other boys were not his usual friends. This pack didn't want to play with him and the next thing anyone knows, gfg is on the ground being kicked by them. DH (who was 100 ft away) believes that Charlie was the leader.

I don't think the school district has a clue of this boy's history. How would they know? It's Kindergarten and this could well be his first incident. I highly doubt his parents (very nice people, by the way) told them anything about his desire to harm others, destroy property or steal money. [Yeah, a Kindergartener. You expect that out of a teenager, don't you?] I also doubt his parents would ever have been told of the incident, but DH saw Charlie's mum that afternoon and enlightened her. She was not surprised in the least.

I told gfg that I didn't want him playing with Charlie because Charlie was mean. If gfg were older, I'd tell him that you never start a fight, but you finish it, and exactly what to say to Charlie after getting him alone some place to ensure that Charlie fully expects to be hospitalized if he or his friends ever lay a hand on gfg again. Problem is, that works for the usual bully but what do you do with the neighborhood psychopath-to-be? People believe Charlie could be one of those 8-year-olds who kill someone so it's not good to define yourself as a true threat to him. But that's all academic because gfg wouldn't even grasp the concepts at play here. I asked DH if he could let his teacher know that Charlie has some long-standing problems and considering this incident, we'd prefer that he not be partnered with gfg if it can be avoided.

This would have been enough, having my Kindergartener kicked around by a pack on the playground, but no. Gfg and PC were sitting at the table doing homework. PC pesters the life out of gfg and he'll eventually respond. Gfg is also in his 4-5 week cycle of aggression and impulsivity, and I'm sure that getting kicked around didn't help him control either. DH stepped out of the room but was brought back quickly by the screaming. Gfg had poked PC in the inside corner of the eye with a pencil. There's blood, there's tears, there's a huge fuss. DH takes her to the doctor (gfg in tow of course) who declared her lucky to not have needed emergency surgery. She looks awful and has to use anti-biotic drops for a while. Gfg was very repentant. PC insists he did it on purpose but although I have no doubt he was behaving inappropriately with a pencil, he doesn't have Charlie's desire to really hurt someone and was so, so sorry afterwards.

So that was our rotten day. Any advice on dealing with the budding neighborhood psychopath is appreciated. [Yeah, yeah, I know he's someone's gfg and all that, but I'm still pretty P.O.'d right now and venting a bit.]

[Janna]

Big *sigh* [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/9-07tears.gif[/img]

Dylan's in this Emotional Support class with all "behaviorally challenged" kids that do alot of things I don't like (although one of them was MY kid too at one point), although they are always monitored.

He hasn't been a target (yet) of any type of abuse. I'm absolutely appalled at what happened to gfg. All four boys should be in severe trouble, not just "Charlie". Absolutely unbelievable.

I have no advice, but wanted you to know I read and sympathize. Poor PC [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/9-07tears.gif[/img] I just know if four kids were kicking Dylan, I would be in that school, in that principals face, and want them all standing in front of my son apologizing, at LEAST. I'd be livid, but I honestly don't know what I'd do.

Hugs, lady.

[MidwestMom]

In our school district, even in kindergarten, all those bullies would have been in serious trouble. My guess is that before Charlie turns into a Manson, he'll have been removed from mainstream school and be put into an alternative placement. If he is a serious threat to other kids, parents are going to be dogging the school to get him away from their kids. At your son's age, I would simply refuse to let him play with the child. I'd even go to school and tell them that XXX is NOT allowed to play with OOOO. We have control when they are still so young. Why ask for trouble?

[totoro]

I am sorry- I worry about the same things my gfg is a girl yet she seems to hook up with the troubled boys and she is in pre-school. but has always attached herself to the ones that were worse than her... sigh.
We had to go and sit in a couple of times to figure out why she was biting SO much 2 years back, we found out her "friends" were cornering her and punching her until she would freak out and start biting!!! But of course the only thing that was witnessed was the biting! Until we saw it firsthand. It was hard to see, our baby getting hit.
Kids are so cruel to each other...even to friends...

hope your day gets better

sorry

[tiredmommy]

[ QUOTE ]
I asked DH if he could let his teacher know that Charlie has some long-standing problems and considering this incident, we'd prefer that he not be partnered with gfg if it can be avoided.

[/ QUOTE ]

RFS,
With all due respect I think you need to insist that Gfg not be paired or left unsupervised with Charlie or his cohorts. Put it in writing. It sounds like Gfg already is targeted by Charlie. I would be at that school tomorrow at 9am asking the teacher and principal how they planned to keep Charlie and the other bullies away from Gfg so that Gfg is safe and gets his education. You are looking for the bullies recess time to be changed, no unsupervised time in the hall or bathroom for Gfg and all four sets of parents being notified.
This was an attack on your son. He was singled out because of his eagerness to fit in with the group. These boys pushed him to the ground and stood around him and kicked him repeatedly. How horrendous. And it's chilling to think that they did this with your Dh standing 100 feet away. What is going to happen to Gfg when Dh (or the teacher) isn't there? I fear this won't be the last attack, especially if this attack isn't addressed.
This attack needs to be fully addressed with the school. Check out your district's bullying policy, most have zero tolerance.
Here's some info on bullying:
http://www.cyh.com/HealthTopics/Heal...41&id=1734

Bullying (which is also called harassment) is a form of cruelty that affects not just the bullies and victims, but those who witness the behaviour and the distress of the victim. Bullying is widespread and most commonly found in schools. A very competitive school environment can contribute to bullying. Schools have a responsibility to create an environment where children feel safe and in recent years schools have taken steps to develop policies against bullying.

However children can be bullied anywhere, and adults can be bullies. Bullying can have a very bad effect on the child who is being bullied and on the child who is allowed to go on bullying.

Bullying needs to be taken seriously by adults.


What is bullying?
Bullying is deliberate. It is the desire to hurt, threaten or frighten someone. It can be with words or actions. It can be by one person or more, and can vary in the degree of severity. It can be a 'one-off' incident, but usually involves repeated actions by a child or children. The differences in power make bullying possible.

Bullying can include threatening, teasing, name calling, excluding, ganging up, preventing others from going where they want to, or taking away their belongings. It can be pushing, shoving or hitting and all forms of physical abuse. It includes sending hurtful or scary messages on phone calls, SMS text or e-mails. It can be one or a number of these, however verbal abuse is the most common form of bullying.

It happens at school - in toilets, change rooms, locker rooms and playgrounds. It happens outside school - at bus stops and train stations, on transport, in parks, walking home, at sporting clubs, in fun parlours and at home.

As long as the bullying gives satisfaction and no-one does something about it, the bullying will continue.


Children who bully
There are many reasons. Children who bully may:

pick on just anyone, or choose their victim
find that bullying pays (get what they want or get admired by others)
be aggressive and impulsive
enjoy feeling powerful over others
not be affected by the distress of the victim
believe that some kinds of people deserve to be bullied
see it as fun
have been influenced by aggressive ‘models’ (in real life and/or in movies/or on TV)
often have a violent family background
see their behaviour as ‘pay-back’ for some unfair treatment
be or have been victims themselves.
Children who bully are more likely to grow up to bully their partners and their own children.


Children who are bullied
Any child can get bullied. Sometimes children who are popular, smarter or attractive can be victims of bullying but bullies may pick on children who seem easy to hurt. Children can be picked on who:

look different or are different
are stressed, either at home or at school
have a disability
struggle with schoolwork
are not good at sport
lack social confidence
are anxious
are unable to hold their own because of being smaller or weaker or younger.
Occasionally children provoke other children to bully them by teasing first.

Being bullied is very distressing for the victim and needs to be dealt with.


Signs of being bullied
Children who are being bullied may not always tell adults. They may be afraid or ashamed. They may think it is their fault. They may think it is ‘dobbing’. They may have been threatened with something worse if they tell.

Some signs of being bullied may be:

not wanting to go to school
finding excuses for not going to school, eg feeling sick or being sick
wanting to go to school a different way, eg changing the route, or being driven instead of catching a bus
being very tense, tearful and unhappy before or after school
talking about hating school or other children
showing bruises or scratches
damage to or loss of personal belongings
showing problems with sleeping, eg not sleeping, nightmares, bedwetting
not having any friends
refusing to talk about what happens at school.
These signs may not necessarily mean your child is being bullied, but you need to check out what is worrying your child.


The effects of bullying
Being bullied can damage lives. The effects of ongoing bullying can be long-term, with the harm to the health and well-being of the bullied person lasting into adult life. It damages self-esteem, increases anxiety and can cause serious depression. Bullies are more likely to continue with the aggressive behaviour and engage in delinquency and violence.

Bullying can make children feel afraid, petrified, lonely, angry, distressed or physically ill. Children who are always 'on guard' are always checking where the bully is and wondering when it will happen again. When children are ‘on alert’ like this, they are less likely to concentrate or to learn. Their friendships may suffer as they are often worried and not ready to have fun.

Children may begin to feel they deserve the treatment and become withdrawn, isolated, and feel less able to fit into their world.


What parents' can do
Listen to your child and take seriously her feelings and fears.
Try not to take everything into your own hands, unless it is an emergency, because this is likely to make your child feel less in control. In extreme cases action must be taken without your child’s approval.
Help your child to work out what ideas she has about coping with the problem. Write them down. Include a few of your own to get started. Then talk with her about which ones might help or not help and why. Choose an idea that she would like to try and then check out how it works.
Don’t call your child names, eg. "weak" or "a sook" and don’t let anyone else do so.
If the bullying is verbal teasing you may be able to help your child to learn to ignore it, so the child who is doing it does not get any satisfaction out of it. You could practise at home ways to help your child gain confidence, eg the way to walk past with her head up.
Help your child think of ways to avoid the situation, eg. by going a different way home, or staying with a group (your child needs to feel safe, but should not have to change her life to avoid being bullied).
Some children are helped by imagining a special wall around them to protect them from the hard words that will bounce off.
Work on improving your child’s confidence by concentrating on the things she can do well.
Find out about 'assertiveness training' which may be useful. When victims can solve the problem unaided there is a great rise in self-esteem.
If your child has been traumatised she may need professional help.
Most importantly, if the bullying is happening at school, contact your school.
Be very careful that your child does not feel that being bullied is her fault. It is the bully who needs to change and stop her behaviour, not the child who is being bullied. Do not bully the bully.


Talking to the school
When bullying happens at school you will need to talk to the school about it. Most schools in South Australia have policies that deal with bullying.

Make a list of the things that have happened to your child. Be clear and be firm about his suffering. Be prepared to name the children who bully. If bullying persists, write down WHO, WHAT, WHERE and WHEN.
Talk to the Principal about the school’s way of dealing with bullying and what steps the school will take to prevent it happening again to your child.
Talk to the teacher about what can be done to help your child.
Keep in contact until the problem is sorted out.
If you find it difficult to talk about this with the school, take another adult with you.
It is important to get professional support if:
this is an ongoing problem rather than an occasional one for your child
it happens to your child a lot, in different situations and with different children. Research has shown that one in six Australian students are bullied every week, and that those children are three times more likely to develop depressive illnesses.

Being harassed/bullied on the phone or by email
This type of harassment is becoming wide spread.
Children might be sent frightening SMS or e-mails.
While the sender might be known, these messages can be sent anonymously which is very scary to children and their families.
Be careful who knows phone numbers and e-mail addresses.
If this is happening at school, notify the school principal or IT manager.
Contact your phone and e-mail providers to see what can be done to prevent calls.
Changing phone numbers and e-mail addresses may help.

Reminders
Let your child know that bullying is wrong.
Take your child's fears and feelings seriously.
Reassure your child that being bullied is not his fault, and that something can be done about it.
Let your child know that he is not the only one who is bullied. It happens to lots of children but it should be stopped.
Help your child as far as possible to work out his own ways of dealing with the problem.
Protect your child - involve the school or club or wherever it is happening. Don't give up until it stops.
Help your child to feel good about the other things in his life

[dreamer]

UG and <sigh> sounds awful
as for the eye, be very grateful, but if the pencil DID touch the eyeball, make absolutely sure the doc who examined it the first time knew exactly what he was looking at! My son almost one year ago exactly hurt his eye- the ER told me he was fine. He wasn't.....he wound up with a 9 hour immediate surgery a week later, and after a couple months that surgery "failed" and had to be repeated-----with an even worse outcome and now he has not had vision in that eye since March and the eye is very ugly, and now we found out this week there are even MORE complications.

But- the first ER doc said it was "just fine"
(I posted on the watercooler forum just today about it.....the subject of the thread is prayers for little boy)

[dreamer]

PS. yes our ER DID stain the eye and look at it thru a special instrument and with special lights etc.....and still said it was fine.....
Turns out the sooner it is properly treated the better the prognosis and outcome. My sons eyeball slowly leaked out it's vireous and gerw massive scar tissue out of control in the week after the injury and the scar tissue pulled his retina and macula off.....and then the eyeball began to.....um...deflate? Collapse?
Yes, our ER told us how lucky we were.....truth is our ER did not have the first clue what he was looking at or seeing. It took a retina super specialist. AT a major university teaching hospital...5 hours from home.....<sigh> and it has been a horrible time intensive problem now for a full year.
Oh and......my son had NO pain and no loss of vision originally.so pain and vision are not accurate ways to know how serious the injury is.

[Andrea Danielle]

Poor You! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/9-07tears.gif[/img]
That is awful. How sad for all of you.
I have no advice but wanted to send big hugs your way!

Hang in there!
Andrea

[Marguerite]

BUllying is a HUGE issue. And yet so often, especially in really young kids, it's not taken seriously enough. A good friend of ours, an otherwise almost over-protective parent, shrugs off the negative consequewnces of bullying with, "Shes young, she's resilient, she will forget all about it and it won't affect her." And I HATE that word "resilient" and especially it's manufactured sibling, "resiliency". It's a word that is being used by educators to justify not intervening when bullying is going on. "let the kids sort it out for themselves." Didn't they read "Lord of the Flies"?

"Charlie" doesn't sound like a psychopath-to-be - he sounds like he already IS a psychopath. Hey, it happens. And you CAN intervene, or at least try to. A true sociopath simply doesn't care about other people - no natural empathy. They can learn some level of empaty. A lot of them also learn that it is inconvenient to them if they are caught breaking the law, so they can grow up to become law-abiding sociopaths and psychopaths - blending in to society, holding down jobs, often rising to the top. It's not pleasant to work with one (I know!) but your life is not necessarily in danger. That is, if they grow up being taught, clinically, to follow certain rules of society for their own convenience.

A Kindergarten kid behaving like this - a huge concern. Were there any consequences for them? Even at our local, very lazy, school, they would have been severely reprimanded. Most of our schools would have suspended them for three days.

Our local school has often let this sort ofthing slide. They are scared to call parents in to say, "your child is bullying others," because often the parents are the bullies and the teachers are scared of them. As a result, the bullies learn quickly that they can get away with this sort of behaviour. It escalates into protection rackets and a higher level of bullying. It then follows the victims home from school.

We had one local teacher, who when asked to keep a child away from another who was bullying her, actually put the two girls together to work on a project. I think the teacher thought to make a point to the complaining parent. The teacher victimised the victim, praised the bully and totally undermined school discipline. The principal, when complained to, said, "Nobody else has complained about that teacher." Other parents HAD complained but in the face of the denial, shrank away from continuing to insist on action.

If the school will not respond and ensure your child is safe and these bullies are appropriately discipline, then I recommend you begin to make yourself unpopular. Your own popularity rating is far less important than the safety of your children. If you do not get satisfaction, NEVER back down, or the school then becoomes the bully also.

We live in a town which, thanks to a lazy school, now has bullying in the streets. We can go to the city and let GFG3 stroll among total strangers knowing he is safe from bullying. But in the streets at home, he is a target. Unprovoked attacks happen EVERY TIME we have a community public event.

Take action now, stop this happening. Don't let Charlie get away with intimidating you as well. Also, make sure you keep GFG safe, even if you have to escort him everywhere if this kids continuesto make trouble. If GFG complains, tell him that it's the only way you can be sure that Charlie will not hassle him. Playing with Charlie is NOT desirable - Charlie is NOT a good friend. GFG needs to have a written list of "What is a friend?" as a checklist. You need to role play with him, frequently, what to do in certain situations. Role play various friendship and control scenarios and slowly build his interpersonal skills. I had to do this with all my kids. I saw goodresults early with PC, it took GFG 1 until his mid-teens. But now those two are adults I can see what happened to the bullies in their lives. In almost every case, the bully has grown up into a confused, unhappy individual making a real mess of life. Several now have criminal records or are associating with people with criminal records.

A good family home is not enough. One of these former friends of GFG 1 has very dedicated, very caring parents. Their main fault was in not seeing the problems soon enough even when the problems were right under their noses. This lad is heading for more trouble - I've personally witnessed him dealing drugs and other contraband in the school grounds after hours. He's mixing with some very bad people. And because GFG1 cut him loose as a friend long ago, I know that GFG1 is well out of it.

You CAN have very young psychopaths and sociopaths. Sometimes they are kids who are victims themselves; sometimes they're just born that way. PC was only five when she was attacked by a seven-year-old in the school playground, who molested her and terrified her. I don't think he was alone but he was the main attacker. She's 24 and still dealing with the damage. She took two years to tell me. The perpetrator - she had known him since infancy. I knew him too, from the child care centre they both attended before they went to the same school. He was a weird kid, always sitting in a corner staring at you. Sullen, stubborn, determined. And sneaky. Very cold and unemotional. No empathy.

Please, rescue your child. Especially with GsFG, when things like this can cause such disruption in their progress, you need to make sure he is safe. I would go so far as to change schools if necessary, stating why. I wouldn't leave PC at the school with a kid like that either. However, if the school takes appropriate action, stick it out. The experience can have an eventual positive outcome, if GFG is believed and kept safe. HE needs to know that this sort of behaviour has consequences for the bullies.

Marg

[BonnieJean]

<font color="purple">Okay, first, thanks tm for bringing me here...next RFS I have a few comments. I want to start by saying how feeling sick to my stomach. OMG...To have a FIVE year old pushed to the ground and then kicked by not one but FOUR other kids is so sickening. Kids, even five year olds are fully able to understand what bullying is. Trust me on this! I have a Great-nephew who is 4 and he is very cognitive of what it is.</font>

<font color="purple">Was there only one teacher on duty for someone not to see that there was more than Charlie doing this? I mean, first of all, I have red flags just a bouncing around my head when you said the mother was not surprised in the least!?! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/916wildone.gif[/img] I'd be like what the h-e-l-l?! So, I suspect there were problems BEFORE school or the other option of thinking is, this is not the first bullying/aggressive act by Charlie. ~shrugs~</font>

<font color="purple">Make a formal request about Charlie NOT being in close proximity as possible with your GFG. If Charlie cannot control himself and at this young age is showing severe signs of being a bullying and becoming something worse, then I would also petition not only the Playground Supervisor, but the teacher(s) and Principal. I would NOT let this go under any circumstances.</font>

<font color="purple">It terrifies me that your child is bringing home the aggression. Ugh! And he's mad as h-e-l-l and is obviously displacing his anger. My pc son did that as well. He, for years, literally, got his head banged on the bus windows, got things thrown at him, made fun of, laughed at for falling after being tripped deliberately among other things....day in day out, for over 4 years. I found out one day when my now GFG and his sister A came home one day and told me. I sat PC down and we had a very long talk.</font>

<font color="purple">My PC, I suspect has a form of autism(?) not sure tho' as there is no dx. Regardless, he never stood up for himself, ever! So I had too. I went to the school, but b/c it was the last week, not much could be done. The Native TAs took at the native kids into the Resource room and asked if anyone was getting bullied if they would stand up then and there. Now, of course my PC would not stand up, did they think he was stupid or something? Anyways, fast forward to the first week of the next school year....PC gets pushed out of line by bully who was a girl in the group...he pushed back, teacher saw him, he got suspended, I took a fit, cuz they both should have...but...he lived through that last year...well, not entirely perfect.</font>

<font color="purple">Then one day, PC wanted to use my computer. He had been rude to me previously, so I said no...I was trying to help J install a program on the puter and having a hard time. Well, one thing led to another and b/c I wouldn't let him have the pc, he and I got into a fight, literally. I was hit repeatedly in the head. It was terrible. The other three kids saw everything. They saw me lying on the kitchen floor crying. Not good!</font>

<font color="purple">Now, this was not the first time...previously he had busted a glass tumbler over his sister Js head. It shattered! For this, he was taken out of our house for a week and returned by CFS. But with the second incident, I asked DEX to leave and take PC with him. DEX told PC that it was my fault anyways, and that I should have just let him have the computer and everything would have been fine. It wasn't though....</font>

<font color="purple">How do you get this to stop...I would call a case conference with the school officials. Ask other parents in the meantime who live close to this family if they've witnessed any odd behaviours or incidents. Keep meticulous notes. Make any requests formal, in writing so that you always have a copy on file.</font>

<font color="purple">I am still having problems with the boys who bullied both of my boys...I recall an argument I had with an RCMP officer who tried to tell me that bullying in the school is similiar to bullying in our community, (which for me is a Native reserve)...I tried to tell him that you can't compare when you have parents who seem to think their kids could do no wrong etc...in a school setting, HOPEFULLY, the bully(ies) can be targeted and removed. In a community such as mine, that might be more impossible.</font>

<font color="purple">I wish you the best of luck....remember, make a list of what questions you want answered. You can demand, but do so in a formal "adult" way. If you go into the school, you must follow protocol, even if you get angry. Bullying is something that should not be tolerated NO MATTER WHAT!</font>

<font color="purple">So, make a list of questions, make a list of formal requests in writing and make sure you double check things. Make sure you ask around to see what other people think in the area of this family and this boy. He's very young, but does he have siblings and if so, what are they like?</font>

<font color="purple">A bad home life might explain alot, but it doesn't make the ALOT okay...nor should it!</font>

<font color="purple">BonnieJean</font>
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