Ped. says let's give it 6 more weeks- new Psychologist suggesting Risperdal...

[MidwestMom]

Only problem is if he has any PDD--which include PDD-NOS, Aspergers and classic autism--(PDD alone is not a diagnosis) then the early you start interventions the better t he child can do in adulthood, so if you even suspect he may have it, get him into early childhood intervention because it has a lot to do with his eventual outcome. Bipolar doesn't require these interventions, but the interventions won't hurt any child. They are hard to get without some PDD dx., but necessary if it's there. The symptoms may overlap, but the treatment is very different. There are no meds for ASD, only some ASD kids take meds simply for the symptoms--they still need interventions to improve to their maximum and, yes, they can rage a good one, just like bpers. Make sure the psych understands ASD as much as bipolar. Good luck.

[totoro]

MIdwestmom-
I see why you have concerns, you obviously have a history...unfortunately. The new psych we are seeing is the guy that treats almost all of the PDD in the area ( she was possible PDD-NOS to clear it up) and he is the second one saying maybe??? He IS going to start treatment with pdd-nos dx and all other dx, while still eval'ing her.

My point was if you think she has all of these things or it may be a possibility, lets start working on them while watching and evaling. I just want to wait on the meds for awhile while we try some treatments. I am by no means denying/or not seeing any of the dx's I am just trying to get someone competent and with some knowledge to justify the dx's. So far the OT has been able to show me why she truly believes gfg has SID and severe ADHD. other than that????

He and I both know and agree that the earlier the treatment the better, especialy for pdd-nos. All treatment will help her at this point. like you said it can't hurt.

Thanks for the insight.

[Janna]

Hi totoro,

We've been through the rigamarole, too, of "is it PDD, is it BP" - Dylan's been through a slew of dx'es over his short life. He was ADHD. Then ADHD/ODD. Then we moved on to "Intermittent Explosive Disorder" (huh?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!), Mood Disorder, NOS, then PDD-NOS (alone). Then back to ADHD/ODD LOL! What the ?!?!?!?!

17 medication trials, 19 including the 2 he's on now. 7 years worth. Stimulants, atypical antipsychotics, mood stabilizers, the works. It's frustrating, to say the least.

Unlike you, I do tend to think the dx is important. Yes, treating the symptoms is just as good, however, if you've got a Bipolar child, ADHD meds won't work. PDD kids aren't usually prescribed medications, so if you've got a BP'er, again, getting tons of PDD interventions (which could help your BP'er anyway) with no meds, well, IMO, I don't see how much success you'll get from that.

My son has both, Bipolar and PDD. Let me say, that we have done every form of behavioral mod and had more interventions/services in school than anyone I know. Unfortunately, with the Bipolar, none of them were successful without the appropriate medications. So, at this point, IF your child IS Bipolar (and finding out is indeed a long haul), medication, IMO, is a must. I can tell you this because my out of control son is now almost a PC because of the meds. It's made a 110% difference in his life thus far (although it's still early lol).

So, it sounds like you're really busting your tail to find out what is going on with gfg, which is super. However, I wouldn't shun the medication route either. If your child is emotionally unstable, meds may just be what you need to get gfg on track.

Hugs to you [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/warrior.gif[/img]

[totoro]

Janna
It isn't that I don't think the dx isn't important it is that we have everyone arguing over wether it is pdd-nos or eobp. With little actual treatment, so I just want to start some treament and see what comes to surface as treatment is on going...

After our apt. this morning everyone now agrees with us. they all want to wait 6 more weeks and see what surfaces. I think like your gfg janna, she has a lot of things going on and she is only 5 so they feel the pdd will only get better if we start treatment.
As for the eobp- they want to wait and see how she reacts to treatment and then in the future meds. I think we are all in agreement that we are going to have to medicate this child one day but everyone would like a little clearer picture as to what we are dealing with.

The child therapist who treats all of the pdd in are area wants to make pdd-nos here primary dx as of now. He is contacting her ped. today. He feels we will have to medicate her for the severe adhd down the road, and then see what and where we are at.

I am ok with all of this. I just don't really know what to expect with the pdd, how does the future look for these children... I believe she is mild at this point. He also said he thinks you really see how good/bad the pdd is when they hit about 3rd grade as far as development??? Has anyone seen this.
He also said they usually would medicate for her other disorders, like the adhd. But pdd by itself is usually not medicated,right???

With your son Janna when did you know he was bp, did he become manic or was he dx'd before mania occured. Our gfg seems to cycle, but they say that can be the pdd or the adhd/sid.... sigh...

Anyway I just feel slightly overwhelmed somedays, and just want to do what is best for gfg. I just don't think a little person should have this much torment.... I am sure you all can remember back in the begining, you feel like you want to protect your gfg's and all you want to do is not f' any thing up for them, yet you feel like that is happening over and over....

Thanks for everyone's support and wisdom yet again!!!

[Katie H]

Hi Totoro,

I have a five year old daughter too! Her diagnosis is Asperger's. It is hard to get a diagnosis at this age, I can totally relate. We had to go through many professionals who just said "immature" "wait and see", etc, before we found a good developmental pediatrician who finally figured it out. (((hugs))) to you, you sound like you are doing great at advocating for your daughter!

Anyway, I can't really comment on some of your questions about bipolar because I don't have experience with that, but did want to chime in on some of the spectrum questions. First, regarding some of the interventions/therapies. I think they can be great for ANY child, even if your daughter does not turn out to be on the spectrum. My daughter's social skills group is the best - they teach how to be a good friend, how to be a good sport, how to listen and ask appropriate questions in converstation, how to give and receive compliments, etc. Any of my friends who know about this group say they wish their NT (neurotypical) children had something like this. Overall, this group and her work with a speech therapist (doing pragmatics - social speech) has helped her so much at school with making and keeping friends.

You mentioned 3rd or 4th grade as a turning point for children on the spectrum and I have heard this too. Supposedly there are two factors. One, the learning moves away from the rote memorization stuff that many spectrum children excell at. Suddenly, children who had always been academic stars may begin to struggle with reading comprehension, more difficult math etc. The second is that most children make a leap socially around this time. They begin to make friendships built around common interests. For a child on the spectrum whose interests may be a bit unusual, they may find themselves left out. Children on the spectrum may continue to enjoy certain "pretend play" type games that their peers outgrow at this point. This is what I have heard at least, I have no first hand experience. I will let you know in three or four years (lol!).

Finally, the future question. This one depresses me. The statistics aren't really that good. I think Midwest Mom actually posted an article on the main board about autistic adults recently. My hope is that because of more awareness, early interventions, etc, the future can be bright for children on the spectrum. But, you cannot really predict. I still contribute to my daughter's college fund and hope she will use it someday, and find a career, marry, etc. But, I am also prepared to support her and take care of her if that is the way things turn out. If it makes you feel any better my family has several undiagnosed aspergerish people - including an engineer/physicist, a lawyer and a psychiatrist.

I think the more you can do for your daughter now, the better chance you will give her. For my daughter she has improved so much sometimes I think - who is this child. But, I don't for a second stop or think that we do not have a long road.

Whew, sorry this became such a novel! Hope some of that helped!

Take care,

Katie

[SRL]

My son who has Autistic traits that lean in the direction of AS is now in 4th grade. He had his worst year in first due to school anxiety and has made steady progress in all areas, including the social realm, since then. I was told by an experienced Autism consultant that 4th grade was often the turning point socially because social demands increase at his time--more subtle, more nonverbals, more abstract, etc and that a lot of kids can't keep up. The year is young for my kiddo yet but I can say happily that even though he is a little edgy my son has really good friendships with two boys in his class plus gets along well with a few of the girls as well. When I say good friendships I mean they look exactly like you would hope--they go back and forth on playdates, talk on the phone, not to mention fight like brothers :-) for which the three of them did time in the principals office on the last day of school last year. No one, and I mean no one, who assessed my son along the way ever gave us any hope that he'd be at this point socially today.

Academically I have seen a HUGE leap in expectations between 3rd and 4th based on a magical ;-) developmental leap all students have made over the summer. We're talking jumping from having to be responsible for one page of math homework 4 nights a week to having to remember to bring home any number of the 10 various items in the desk depending on what wasn't finished during the day. Far more is required in terms of writing and supplying more developed answers and the upshot so far is that my son has dropped from almost all A's to almost all B's.

Just this past week I checked what adults with AS were saying about their worst years in school and many cited 5th, 7th and junior year in HS.

The moral is to take what those with expertise have learned as a caution and as motivation to work on these issues with your child but don't count the outcomes until you've arrived. Yesterday I was in a school meeting with about 3 inches of paperwork from various evaluations, reports, IEPs, etc. sitting in front of me and what I heard from both the teachers and the new principal is that had they not known or been aware of my son's past history or diagnosis there's no possible way they would have been able to pick up on his differences because they are so miniscule. We're talking about a kid who 3 years ago refused to go to school and whose every issue he'd ever had was at record high levels.

Have hope, moms, and never underestimate your children or yourselves because you just never know what lies ahead. Indeed many adults with this disorder have significant struggles but keep your eye fixed on today.
SRL

PS. PDD itself is not medicated for but many PDD individuals do use meds at least somewhere along the way to help with various issues such as anxiety.

[totoro]

Thanks Katie and SRL-
Very good info. I do believe in my heart that she will grow up to be a fine person and happy. We will keep working towards this goal- no matter what.


We are also trying to gleam as much info as we can about experiences because we will probably be entering the public school system next year, I want to be as well equiped as possible...

thanks [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/warrior.gif[/img]