1st time poster /long time listener

[Star*]

HI all -

I picked up a book today about kids in the juvenille prison systems and Anti-Social personality Disorder. My son (Dude) is a budding ASPD.

In this book - basically about vitamins, minerals and the like had more pages devoted to this study about taking the most violent inmates in prisons and DJJ's and changing their diets. The doctor believed that children of today are like they are because of additives in the food, refined sugars, and junk food on a whole.

She took the worst of the worst in places like TX, VA, MA, CA and FL - and divided them into 3 groups. The first group took placebos, and had a dietary change. The second took mega doses of vitamin C (ascorbic acid) like 8500mg, and mega doses of Vit. B complex /B5, and Zinc with a diet change high in B vitamins and Citrus. The third got the meds but not the diet.

In 6 weeks - the results were astounding. Group one had 29% improvement but it was largely believed that most of the kids in that group were only affected by someone paying them attention and therapy. THe second group did a whopping 48% decrease in violent behaviors, hyperactivity, aggression towards staff and peers, and theft. They also reported being more focused, able to hear the rules and function because they were able to pay attention, and had no reoccurrances of violence. The third group also did amazingly well - with or without the diet high in B vits - they also had a 42% decrease in violent and repeat violent behavior. They also reported getting a good nights sleep and not having upset stomach and lessened anxiety.

So I'm reading this - and thinking - MY WORD - what if -

It says for the first month - 8500 mg vit. c (ascorbic acid)
and 1000 mg twice a day of Vit B 5, then reduce to 100 mg 2x day after a month
And a mineral complex with zinc and other essential nutrients

My questions:

Has anyone ever heard of this? Is it quackery?

I am friends with someone who works at a compound pharmacy - could this be put in a capsule/compound?

I know vit. c leaves the body quickly with peeing - and the things that Bvit does are astounding - I'm even looking at this concoction for a list of symptoms they listed in the book - all of which I have from migraines to PMS -

Just wanted another view.
Thanks for reading
Star

[Hope]

I have seen a similar study with fish oil in a prison population with positive results.

I don't know if it's quackery. I'm sure you could find many doctors who would say it is. I tend to believe diet and nutrition does play a part.

My own mood has improved by changing my diet. My GFG's behaviour and mood have greatly improved from diet to the point where most days, she isn't even a GFG any more.

My mother was feeling kind of mentally off and realized her diet was lacking in the B vitamins. I'm not sure if she started taking a multivitamin or a B vitamin but she says it helped her.

[Lothlorien]

Star, Vitamin B complex is a destress vitamin, among various other benefits. The B vitamins are not largely in quantity in a lot of the foods that we eat, especially for those in areas where the crime rate and violence is very high. This doesn't surprise me in the least.

[standswithcourage]

Are you talking about Vitamin B12 too? I have some of that but never take it.

[trinityroyal]

Star,

I don't think it's quackery at all. There are so many things that we don't yet understand about how the body works.

I know that when I follow the GI diet, and take daily vitamin supplement and fish oil, I feel better all over. PMS symptoms decrease sharply or disappear entirely, I don't fall into low moods or depressions, things just tick along.

We recently started GFG on a program of vitamin supplements and melatonin at the RTC. He takes a daily multivitamin, Vit C 1000 mg, fish oil, and 9 mg of melatonin each night before bed. And the difference in him is astonishing. He doesn't seem nearly so manic, nor aggressive. RTC staff have said that he doesn't seem driven to break things the way he used to.

He still has issues, but the vitamin therapy seems to be doing wonders for him. I figure that if it's working, quackery or not, I will keep up with it.

(This is my first time posting in this forum as well)

Trinity

[Nomad]

I don't think it is quakery at all!
What is the name of the book?
I have had wonderful results with my vitamins.
The B vitamins in particular have given me more energy and coping ability.
I'm now experimenting with Butterbur for migraines...and it has been helpful. However, there is some "talk" that Butterbar can have some long term negative side effects.
My guess is that there are certain very powerful forces out there that would rather not study, or would rather not publicize or not fully reveal the benefits of supplementation.
IMHO, its entirely possible that supplementation of natural supplements in some cases can minimize the need for prescription medications.
I wish wish wish wish that our dau would take vitamins...although she is starting to show a slight interest of late. My son ahd DH have been so blown away by my improvement with the B's that they are BOTH taking a B50 tablet daily.

[Star*]

2 B or not 2 B....

B12, B complex, B5, B6 = I'm Bcoming more and more interested in this B vitamin - but does B complex cover them all or do you give MORE B - #?

Nomad -

I have had migraines almost every day for years - I was on HUGE amounts of Topamax and Frova, taking 4 Bayer aspirin every day has helped and staying away from stress and cigarette smoke - I ALMOST had it on the no stress until Dude came home.

As far as Butterfew - there IS a study being done at a Georgia university - cant remember which one - I had considered taking it vs. the "said" side effects - but Bayer was considerably cheaper. lol. How long have you been on it? Have the headaches lessened?

I started taking the Bcomplex because all of the symptoms listed in this book - describe SO many disorders/diseases - and it's almost like we go to the doc and get lumped into "WHATEVER" - I begged my doc for alternatives and now I'm seeking out a local Chinese herbologist - he's one of the top guys in the country. Dr. Skeleton.

Can you elaborate ANYONE on the B vitamin and
NOMAD - how about that Butterfew? I'm very interested.

Thanks
Star
(trinity - you're so cute -you get a bell ring for also being first time poster)

[Nomad]

Okay, this is the deal....I'm out of town, so I don't have my good resources at hand, and as you know, my memory has been dampened by the Dopamax...but I'll do my best.

BTW...very sorry to hear about the headaches (hugs)

One of the B vitamins seems to possibly help with headaches. There has been all sorts of talk about B6 helping with depression. Also, talk that most folks are not getting enough B12 in their diets. I was surprised when I looked up B12 that many of the foods that had the most B12 in them, were not foods that I commonly ate or did not eat alot of these things. Red meat and seaweed come to mind.

My doc and a friend of mine (a retired pharmasist, who has a great chemistry background), tells me that almost everyone over 40 and this goes double time if you are under stress or taking a lot of medication for health concerns is shy in B12. To make matters more interesting, many health professionals feel that the USA requirements for B12 are a little too low. This is why most docs do not pick up on the notion that a patient can be deficient in B12. Other countries have higher requirements. Although there is a cap on the amount of B6 you should ingest, there is no cap on the abount of B12. Yet, if you are even slightly deficient in B12...chances are you will feel it.

For a variety of reasons, I take a B50 Tablet and additional B12. I take the "Methyl" type. I am abbreviating this word. This is the best in terms of absorption. I take a huge amount of B12, because a blood test showed that I was a little "low." DH is taking a B50 (which has a moderate amount of all the Bs in it) and and additional 1000 mcg of B12. This is probably a more typical situation. Our son is just taking a B50 tablet.

I lowered my Topamax dosage recently and replaced some of it with a product from IHERB. It has Butterbur and Feverfew mixed in it. Feverfew alone never helped me one bit, but there seems to be something to the Butterbur. I did see a study on PubMed with teens who suffered from migraines. A high percentage using Butterbur (note ending of 'bur') received over 50% improvement using this supplement. However, the root of Butterbur (according to WebMD) might cause cancer...the jury is still out.

I hate Topamax so badly, I'm beginning to get a little desperate.

Anyway, I do greatly believe in the B Vitamins. I take the B50 tablet, cause it is a moderate dosage of all the Bs and I don't want to take too much of B6.,...a very high dosage of this can become toxic. I don't concern myself with over taking B12. Since taking these B vitamins and getting in some exercise...I have almost rid myself of depression and I am a total believer.

Did you recall the name of the book that talked about helping folks behaviorally through vitamin therapy? What was it called?

Hope this is of some help. Keep me posted with reference to your plans and progress.

[FlowerGarden]

You might like to look at this site. http://hriptc.org/research_studies.html

The link is to the Health Research Center. It has links pertaining to this issue. I found books to read about the subject from checking out all the links on the site.

I am trying to get my gfg to go to a doctor that specializes in treating mood disorders with vitamins and minerals. She is supposed to be very good but he is refusing to go to another doctor right now. I met with her about him. She said that her course of treatment starts with a physical and doing more extensive blood tests, etc. She keeps the patient on the meds he is already on and then slowly will wean him off as progress is made with the various levels.

[Shari]

I had heard about b vitamins helping autism aggression and stress. I went to a local GNC and the people there actually seemed to know a lot about what each b vitamin helped with (was suprisingly impressed). I haven't tried anything beyond a typical multi-vitamin, but have been reading more about it since last week's appt and thinking about trying it again.