how do you dicipline when no consequences work??

[superthor1022]

It totally makes sense. I agree that he starts with a deficit every day. He was Dx'd by Fraser. They are suppose to be one of the best in MN for ASD and such. However, I feel like we were very rushed through and then it took them about 6 months to finally get us our reports. They couldn't find them. I am really trying to build my knowledge so that when we do have him restested I can be armed with the right questions to ask.

[InsaneCdn]

While you're doing that... get a private, full-scale OT eval done. The OT has therapies, accommodations and interventions that help for sensory overload... and that has just GOT to be ONE of the issues... KWIM?

There's a challenge with the autism spectrum... a kid can have a couple of KEY items, and be definitely ASD/Asperger's. Or... a kid can have all sorts of ASD-ish traits and issues... and NOT meet the criteria for ASD/Asperger's (i.e. my GFG). Sensory issues often go with ASD... but you can have sensory issues, and not have ASD. Ditto for motor skills issues (DCD is the dx if you don't have ASD but have ASD-ish motor skills problems). I don't know where the cut-off is for all of the other 'traits'. But I do know that an OT eval is worth paying for, if there is any hint of either sensory or motor skills issues.

OT therapy (and the interventions and accomodations they recommend) may help reduce some of that "overload" even while you search for a more comprehensive answer.

How is he around noisy environments? (separate, additional line of thought...)

[MidwestMom]

I would take him to a neuropsych who works or once worked at Mayo Clinic. We got a ten hour evaluation that rocked from some neuropsych who had been at Mayo then moved to Wisconsin. I can't imagine any better place for a neuropsych to get his internship than there. There will probably be a long waiting list for any decent neuropsych...they are very much in demand because they are such good/through diagnosticians.

I am not sure he is ASD or neurologically impaired at all though. He could have a mental illness too. It is not the norm for any child to threaten to kill somebody. I would want to make sure a psychiatrist (maybe also trained at Mayo) is also involved. Most likely, your child will need medication. I'm not always pro-med, but you want to keep your wife safe...you don't know if he's blowing smoke or if he means what he is saying.

Good luck and keep us posted

[InsaneCdn]

Have you read "The Explosive Child" (by R. Greene)? That has some interesting info that changed our approach to parenting and help some.

[Wiped Out]

Welcome to our corner of the world. Your gfg sounds a lot like mine at that age (he used to threaten to kill me and would be much worse to me than my dh-even though he has come a long way he still is much more respectful to my dh). I would definitely have him evaluated by a multi-disciplinary team (child pyschologist, child psychiatrist, and a neuropsych). They can give you a much broader picture. I would be sure to document what you see and how often it occurs (of course, when my gfg was 8 I would have needed to be documenting 24/7).

Consequences when my son was that age didn't mean anything to him. We tried to keep them as natural as possible but we also couldn't consequence everything. We did use a lot of the ideas from The Explosive Child.

[TeDo]

Hello ST. Have you journaled what he's DOING before you make the request that sets him off? That was my key with gfg1. If he was in the middle of something when I made the demand, he'd rage. But I really started to pay attention to what he was doing and giving him a "time warning" like "when the next commercial comes on you need to ..." or "when you are done with that level in the game, you need to ..." or "when you're finished doing _________, you need to ...". Those really helped. He cannot switch gears like most kids can.

As for the discipline, I decided not to punish for things said in a rage. Gfg1 would spew some of the most hurtful things when he was in the rage that he wouldn't even think of when in a "normal" frame of mind. And as someone else said, the consequences need to logical to HIM. Hole in the wall - fix the whole, throw something - pick it up, etc but not until the rage is completely over (for gfg1 that can be up to a half hour later).

I am going to Private Message you the name/location of the neuropsych we used in the Cities. He was wonderful and totally "right on the nose". ODD is not helpful at all and can even be damaging if the school deals with that like ours did. Also, an OT eval is definitely called for.

Glad you're sticking around. You'll love this place!!!

[Liahona]

My gfg1's bio-dad is also a sociopath. I think with gfg1 we are battling some of the mental illness that turned his dad into what he is. It has been a very hard road but with lots of therapy, meds, and work on my part gfg1 is more emotionally mature than his bio-dad. I think gfg1 will not turn out like his bio-dad. He does not enjoy hurting people. I am still working with gfg1. What I have found to work best as consequences are pointing out natural consequences. "If you are not nice the other kids won't want to play with you." "If you don't shower. You will stink and the other kids will make fun of you." "If you hurt your brother I can't trust you and you can't be alone with him." "If you threaten to hurt me you can't be with me." I have been very blunt, very strict, and its not fun. (My DH thinks I need to be stricter, too.) We have also had a time out room where gfg1 could go to rage safely.

The others have given you great advice about testing. Good luck and welcome.

[Dammit Janet]

Welcome to the board. Im going to tell you what my son who is now 26 has told me about his behavior when he was a kid. He has said that while we did everything we could do...and he fully realizes he was a total pain in the rear, nothing we could have done was going to drastically alter his behavior because that was simply how he wanted to act. He knows now that he was an idiot and ruined his life and if he could do things over again he would behave so much better but he cant. He really screwed the pooch for himself. I had him in every kind of therapy from the time he was 4 until I just gave up at 17.

The best things we did were to make him responsible for his own actions. That is mighty hard at 8. I would think he needs to be on some kind of medication at least for the ADD and probably something for calming down his rages. I would bet my left arm that he has some form of impulse control disorder. He may have temper dysregulation disorder. You do have to discipline him somehow though. Some people have an issue with discipline but that means to teach. You need to work on teaching him better ways. It may mean plenty of doing the same thing over and over. He calls his mom bad names, he goes into the bathroom and says the bad names to the mirror for 15 minutes. He keeps doing it, next time its 30 minutes. He throws things, he loses the things he throws.

Dr Phil talks about Commando Parenting in one of his books and this is something you have to go into and your child cannot win this war. Take everything out of his room except for his mattress, blankets and pillows, a couple of changes of clothes and a few stuffed animals. Everything else is in another room. You have to be able to control him. Check out Dr Phils book that has this in it. I think its Family First but you can probably get the info on his website. I also like The Defiant Child by Doug Riley.

[MidwestMom]

What is the background story of your child? If he had a very chaotic infancy/toddlerhood, he could well be on the attachment disorder spectrum and, yes, many of them act like little anti-social children who have no consciences. They need help from a therapist who understands attachment problems (no, most of them do not). I have read that a child with a psychopathic parent is at higher risk to have the personality traits (genetics) to become one himself/herself. Can this be reversed? I think so. We adopted another child whose birthmother was a total drug addict putting him at huge risk to also become one...it never happened.

The more you tell us, the more we can help. ((((Hugs)))) from all of us. Especially me. I know what it's like to have a child who responds to absolutely nothing. He is no longer with us because he hurt our pets and our two younger adopted children. Do you have other kids and how are they doing regarding his behavior?

PS--Ok, duh, I missed the post about birth adoptions and open adoptions (I doubt the open part has anything to do with the behavior). You still need to take the genetics into account. Do you know anything at all about this sociopathic father's other children, if he has any? Do THEY have issues too? Did birthmother use drugs or drink during her pregnancy? This is also huge. That affects the developing brain.

[superthor1022]

@midwestmom- GFG was adopted from birth (we were at the hospital when he was born.) Birth mom is 'normal'. She may have ADD but is undiagnosed. Birthfather is out of the picture but is described to us as a sociopath. Has some obvoius mental health concerns. I have no idea what they are though. My other children are also adopted (both from a very young infancy.) Both are very well rounded and do very well with helping to calm, re-direct, etc. GFG.