20 yo still at home, no job - desperate mother!
- Thread starter Hilli
- Start date
Thank you all for your support and guidance. And, I need you all today!! Today is the deadline for my son to pay the money he owes me. This is the first of the hard deadlines we established. I asked him about it this morning and he said he'd have it by tomorrow. I reminded him that was not the agreement and it needed to be to me today. I've told him previously that he would have to move out if he doesn't meet the deadline. Can I extend it one day at this point without enabling him? What if he pays me part of it and then can and does pay the rest tomorrow? Or do I need to be as black and white as having him move out even if he partially pays? Help!!!!
How do YOU feel about him delaying the payment to you Hilli?
Is this the very first agreement on your list? Do you believe him when he says he will have it tomorrow?
If he agreed to have the money by today just a week ago, what could have occurred to miss this deadline?
This is a hard call Hilli. You and he made the agreements and already he is waffling. Our kids excel at not keeping their word, they are used to us caving in.
I don't know what the right thing to do is, only you know that. If you allow him to slide on this one and wait on the entire amount until tomorrow, I think he will have used up any leeway on this agreement already and from here on out, he has to keep ALL the rest of the agreements. And, you should let him know that. If you decide that the agreement holds, then you might offer him a list of the local shelters and food banks as you escort him to the door.
These are the difficult decisions our kids place on us, there is really no right answer Hilli, only what you can live with. I think if it were me, I would give him a few more hours to come up with the money and then state unequivocally that this is the last time you will waver......so if he is testing you, this will be the last test because there are no more next times, next time he is evicted.
Is this the very first agreement on your list? Do you believe him when he says he will have it tomorrow?
If he agreed to have the money by today just a week ago, what could have occurred to miss this deadline?
This is a hard call Hilli. You and he made the agreements and already he is waffling. Our kids excel at not keeping their word, they are used to us caving in.
I don't know what the right thing to do is, only you know that. If you allow him to slide on this one and wait on the entire amount until tomorrow, I think he will have used up any leeway on this agreement already and from here on out, he has to keep ALL the rest of the agreements. And, you should let him know that. If you decide that the agreement holds, then you might offer him a list of the local shelters and food banks as you escort him to the door.
These are the difficult decisions our kids place on us, there is really no right answer Hilli, only what you can live with. I think if it were me, I would give him a few more hours to come up with the money and then state unequivocally that this is the last time you will waver......so if he is testing you, this will be the last test because there are no more next times, next time he is evicted.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Hilli. With just a few words changed here and there, you could be me, and I could be you. I am big on agreements and conditions. To which my son pays lip service. He loves the lists. Because the lists always have a due date a week or a month into the future--and he lives only for today.
He uses the conditions to manipulate more time. And always banks on the idea that he will deal with the final date as it comes. Or he believes I will fold. Who knows what he believes?
To me, conditions, and agreements and lists are a joke. Because there is never commitment. Just resistance, and the wanting to take advantage. The belief on his part that he can sabotage and take advantage and impose his own terms over me.
I believe it does not matter what you do. What matters is your coming to terms with the idea that nothing you do or do not do will help your son. He has to help himself.
The only thing you can do is to protect yourself and live your life, and to restrict contact with him to that which is protected for you. That may be a phone call now and then, where you listen, restricted to a day and a time that is convenient for you.
This is the brutal land in which we live, here. There are some of us who are able to achieve more of a relationship with our children, but it is never when we wish, and never on our terms. But theirs. The only terms and power we have, is how much contact we allow, where it occurs and when.
I would not kick him out with the expectation he will learn or change. He could get worse. My own son did. Do not let him stay with the expectation that this will help him. It may some. But will it be worth the degradation of your own spirit? And how good is that for him, to see his mother degraded and submitting herself to be her own child's victim?
This is not your problem, really. It is his. A dad sometimes posts and his viewpoint is always realistic and pragmatic: he needs to move out and get a job. He can decide how to do it. Any job. He could work in the fields, he could deliver papers. If he cannot or will not, then he needs to apply for government aid. Like my son did.
Except my own son wants to use all his government aid to smoke marijuana and buy special food. And I seem to feel compelled to save him. Never understanding that my son is choosing his life. The life he wants to have.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Keeping your son at home a day or more won't change anything. Nothing will unless he decides to change. And nothing will stop him from changing for the better if he wants to.
Often we forget that our adult kids are not us and, if rebellious, are not interested in a conventional life. We can't force it. If your son doesn't want to work, no deadline will make him comply. If he decides on his own one day that life is horrible and he wants a job, likely he will find a more sustainable one than delivering papers. Once the will is there, the desire to do better kicks in...they are not just pacifying Mom. It always feels better if a person does something for himself
Being on the streets is no guarantee of success but I have been on this forum many years and many of our adult kids DO decide to get it together on the streets.
If you set up boundaries, I do think it's best to follow through, but I think dates can be flexible by a few days.
Wishing you the strength and courage you will need and hoping for the best.
Often we forget that our adult kids are not us and, if rebellious, are not interested in a conventional life. We can't force it. If your son doesn't want to work, no deadline will make him comply. If he decides on his own one day that life is horrible and he wants a job, likely he will find a more sustainable one than delivering papers. Once the will is there, the desire to do better kicks in...they are not just pacifying Mom. It always feels better if a person does something for himself
Being on the streets is no guarantee of success but I have been on this forum many years and many of our adult kids DO decide to get it together on the streets.
If you set up boundaries, I do think it's best to follow through, but I think dates can be flexible by a few days.
Wishing you the strength and courage you will need and hoping for the best.
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I told him he had to move out today. I am devastated and heartbroken. I do not know if this is the right answer. There is no good answer. Either way feels wrong. Letting him stay feels like a betrayal on my own convictions and just another way for him to have a couple more months of more of the same. But sending him out the door feels like a betrayal on my love for him, like I am giving up on him. I am truly sick about it! Paralyzed and heartbroken!!
Hilli, I am so, so sorry.
What a devastating choice.
However, you made the choice that felt right to you and I support your choice. You're right, letting him stay feels like a betrayal of your own convictions, I applaud your sense of integrity under such an enormous weight of responsibility and love for him......
And Hilli you didn't betray him or give up on him, he did that all by himself. Now he can make a different choice for himself because you had the courage and the strength to give him that choice.
Your son is a grown man, men his age are carrying a gun and risking their lives in wars in other countries. Our kids are resilient and clever and your son will land on his feet. You've broken an unhealthy pattern with him and now his life is up to him, where the onus should be.
I made similar choices with my daughter, allowing her to be homeless, allowing her to be in unsafe situations of her choosing.....it was the hardest thing I have EVER done.......and I did it a couple of times.......and each time, she got to figure it out on her own without any of my interference or help. In a relatively short time she figured out I wasn't going to help and she found alternatives pretty quickly. Once we get out of the way, it can be pretty remarkable how our kids find their own way.
In the meantime Hillli, while your heart is aching and hurting, be very kind and nurturing to yourself. You made a choice. In my opinion, you made a good choice. Now go do something for YOU. Take a drive, go out to lunch with a girlfriend, have your nails done, take a bath, go for a walk, make cookies, whatever brings you peace of mind. Don't sit around and ruminate about your choice, take action for YOU.
Sending you prayers for both you and your son. Sending you a big, warm hug........hang in there Hilli......
Thank you for your kind words. I can't get out of bed so doing something nice for myself feels like a long ways away. I called my dad and told him. My parents do not understand. I am fearful their lack of understanding and support will cause me to cave. How do I explain it to them when I am so weak myself right now.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
I am right there with you in bed. Just a few miles a way, I think, but there with you. Literally. I have been bed again for 2 days.
I see it a little differently. I see letting him stay, is giving up on him.
Fearing that you have to accept his terms, because he is too impaired or too stuck or far gone, to change. After all, what you are seeking is that he stand up for himself and live a better life.
To let him do what he wants in your own space, disregarding his commitments to you which he freely made, allowing him to transgress your limits--is in effect, to betray him. You have acted in the best faith. Not just to protect yourself, but to protect him, in the only way you still can. To say: Here, there will be honor. Here, there will be accountability. With me, there will be a bottom line.
Honestly, at this moment, in these circumstances, do you think you had any other option, that would have maintained your own integrity, and allowed him the possibility to regain his own?
As far as your parents not understanding...what does that have to do with anything? You are responsible for you. Let them think what they want. Parents and other family members, friends, often undermine us. They do not know the entire story. And even if they did, this is your story, not theirs.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
I feel this way, too.
My son like your own decided over and over again to not meet his commitments. He knew what the terms were. He believed that by manipulating and lying to us the goal posts would keep moving back and back, to accommodate his choices and desires and convenience, and not ours. Even though for us the commitments were all for him, that he improve his life. There was nothing to benefit us. Finally, M the man I live with said, NO. No more. *This was about the drug test. And I backed him up.
My son had to leave (a property we control.) I would not let him even negotiate a return to get his little bit of stuff. That was one week ago, today. He had been here with us for 10 months, after being away over 4 years.
My decision felt devastating. He has not called. I drive around our small city looking at him. When a neighbor of another property told me that a homeless person was staying outside, I drove there, and felt crushed that it was not him.
This stuff is hard. There is nothing more to say. Just hard.
Oh Hilli, many, many people don't understand the choices we have to make here. I'm sorry your parents don't understand, that is often how this plays out, we are alone in our convictions. Being alone in our convictions doesn't mean that our convictions are incorrect, it does mean however, that if we feel we are right in our convictions then we have to stand strong.
Your parents may never understand, they may always question your choices, but they are not living in your shoes......you are......we are.....around here we are forced to make choices that are often misunderstood or railed against. Stand up for yourself Hilli. You know in your heart what the correct thing to do is, do not allow others to dissuade you from your path. This is very, very hard, but you are doing it.
You don't have to explain it any further to your parents, you can let it go for now.....they have the right to disagree and you have the right to allow them to disagree without caving.
Doing the "right" thing is often an unpopular choice, however, when others disagree it can also be the catalyst that increases the strength we require to make the hard choices. You're changing an unhealthy pattern here with your son, as you stand strong, you give him the opportunity to learn his own strengths, you give him the chance to learn he can live his own life. You've pushed the young bird out of the nest, now allow him to learn to fly with his own wings.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Hilli your parents don't live with him. I'm sorry they are not supportive. My own recommendation, which helped me when I needed support, is to find an Al Anon group. Those folks will support you. They understand. NAMI is also good. So is private therapy.
Please do get put of bed or you gave up on you. Its not healtjy and a poor exampleexample to yoir othet kids. Many times our difficult kids suck all the oxygen out of a family unit. No one family mber should dictate the well being of all. Please...force yourself to be good to you.
Your parents will get it if they step in to interfere and allow your son to live with them. That's often the only way people learn. You are not a child and don't need to please them. There are other ways to get support. Would they have tolerated it if you had behaved like your son while living with them?
in my opinion you did what you had to do. Nobody can "give up" on somebody else any more than we can control somebody else. Only the person can give up on himself or control himsrlf
We can't change others. Big hugs and sorry for your hurting heart.
Please do get put of bed or you gave up on you. Its not healtjy and a poor exampleexample to yoir othet kids. Many times our difficult kids suck all the oxygen out of a family unit. No one family mber should dictate the well being of all. Please...force yourself to be good to you.
Your parents will get it if they step in to interfere and allow your son to live with them. That's often the only way people learn. You are not a child and don't need to please them. There are other ways to get support. Would they have tolerated it if you had behaved like your son while living with them?
in my opinion you did what you had to do. Nobody can "give up" on somebody else any more than we can control somebody else. Only the person can give up on himself or control himsrlf
We can't change others. Big hugs and sorry for your hurting heart.
It's just such a horrible thing to have to kick your own son or daughter out of the only home they have ever known. I feel very badly for you and Copa.
We have all done it, and we have all survived. Maybe that will be a small consolation to you. These kids are remarkably resilient, and they often find someone or somewhere to put themselves up.
As for your parents, I hope you can gently educate them on the dangers of enabling. That generation, especially if they are kind, generous people, are less likely to understand these things. At least, that has been my personal experience.
Thank you all for your kind words and encouragement. I sat down with my son, parents, and live-in boyfriend and we all agreed to allow him to stay until Jan 2. I feel good about this decision as I know have an understanding and agreement from all involved. Although I do appreciate the fact that I do not need them to agree with my decision. I feel like there was a breakthrough with my son. My dad was able to talk with him about being a "man." I hope that he can live up to his end of the deal this time. I'm cautiously optimistic. So many of you have been through this and I know my son enough to get that he may not succeed. It is hard but I feel at peace with this decision. I've showered and even went to dinner with my honey. Thank you all for being there for me in my time of need. This forum has truly been a blessing.
You need to check your local laws. Where I live, you have to go through an eviction process even if your adult son or daughter is not paying any rent. We had to get a TPO from family court to get our daughter out. The judge granted the request when he heard that she was bringing heroin into our house. He sent deputies to our house right then and told her that she had to leave. At that point, she agreed to go out of state to a 3-month inpatient rehab.
~Kathy
~Kathy
Echolette
Well-Known Member
Well, all these posts happened after you decided to stick to the line of your contract...but now you have decided to pause. And I think that is OK...probably most people here do too. You are very clear that this feels right to you, and that is the goal. You have gathered support from those around you, which will certainly be helpful if things go awry on January 2nd.
The quotes above still apply though...at some point holding him to expectations is a form of respect. Unfortunately making this choice has never helped my son...he continues to sink through the strata of society, finding levels lower than I ever knew existed...when I think he is finally on bottom he finds somewhere lower. No, my sticking to the contract didn't ever help him. But nor did keeping him at home, or offering help, or sending him to therapy, or to programs. Nothing I did helped him. Because it is his life to live, not mine. I can't make his life happen.
But you can make your own life happen, and in doing that be a resource for those around you..your boyfriend, parents, friends, family, even your son. Try to avoid the enticement of bed when things go wrong. Work on strenthening yourself..meditation, exercise, posting here...in case things get hard again.
Good luck to you. I think you are doing really well!
Echo
Thank you for your kind words. I am sorry to hear of your own struggles with your son. It is a sad story and one that I am hoping to avoid. However, I do know that they have to make the decision and the boundaries are really only for us to feel some semblance of control over a crazy situation! Take care and I'll keep you posted.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
One thing about this forum that helps us, is that here we confront the full range of options and of possibilities.
There are as many options as there are parents, and kids. Most of us have tried all kinds of things. Out. Back. In. Out. If up and down, helped I would try that. My son left a week ago *asked to, and my heart was broken. A week later, I am much better. Still I do not know where he is.
We never know what is the right thing to do. Never. I am a follower, and I often to listen to what people tell me. But I have found that nobody knows what will work, whether they say they do or not.
I think you got your son's attention for now, that the same old game was no longer working. But our experience has shown we cannot force change. You know that, already. That is a hard lesson for me. I fight this.
I hope you stay with us and keep posting. And keep us in the loop as to what transpires next.
Take care.
Tell him to submit on writing an explanation of why he will be late and that he agrees to pay it tomorrow. Explain that you are granting him a 24-hr. extension because he told you he will have it tomorrow.
Later in the thread I posted that we changed his time to get a job from Feb 1 to Jan 2 because he did not have the $ on Saturday. This was a very tough and heartfelt conversation with my parents and boyfriend. In that conversation I admitted that he didn't even have half the money. So, he gets another pass but not another after this and I believe he gets that now.
