34 year old son is killing my soul

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by beebz, Oct 31, 2018.

  1. beebz

    beebz New Member

    He's not killing my soul, and this is not about me really, but yeah, I'm dying inside, dying. Sometimes I get in this recliner and sit for 15 hours straight and can't wait to go to bed - but then I can't wait to wake up and have coffee lol

    He's 34, homeless, drugs, heroin, living in a car maybe.
    I am so sick of drugs.
    My sister is dead
    My brother is dead
    My nephew is dead
    I have brain damage from being beat in the head and body severely from heroin addicts (trying to evict them out of a rental of mine)
    And theres more - but hell - I'm tired right now - I'm just so sad and tired of living 50 years of a drug infected family -
    My first memory as a child is my mother chasing my brother around throwing a coffee can at him and tearing up his room, the heater vents, the return vents, the baseboards etc looking for drugs ....
    THAT was 50 years ago - and now I have a son who is just the same -
  2. Your post is so very sad, Beebz. You’ve suffered greatly and have experienced huge losses. I’m so sorry.

    Many times we must detach from our very disturbed loved ones to avoid being killed by the grief our loved ones bring into our lives When I first begin to read on this site, I found the article on detachment.
    The section on how irrational thinking leads to an inability to detach was very helpful to me. I hope it can help you.
  3. beebz

    beebz New Member

    Ok, now I'm talking to myself. Anyway, browsing through the many forums, the similarities, pain, grief and hopelessness is so common.
    My brother said to my mother, 20 or more years ago, after his 10th or so sobriety, "if I ever do that sh** again, I'm going to take enough to kill myself because I am sick of living this heroin life" - well, he didn't have to kill himself as he was murdered - a drug deal gone bad I suppose.
    Now, my son, who is so bad off for so long said to me a few years ago "I don't plan on living much longer anyway" - and I believe that - sometimes I don't know which is worse - being homeless and on drugs or dead. In my brothers case, I was relieved he died because he didn't have to suffer anymore and I was worried for my parents safety as "drug-lords" would come to the house for money or beatings or theft and I used to have nightmares of my parents being executed by some dealer. So, when my brother died, I truly breathed a sigh of relief for their safety. What a horrid life to live. My sadness for my son right now is inconsolable . I am wasting away - I feel guilty thinking of "me" - but I've been robbed of so much for so long that I can't think straight at all. To everyone and anyone - thanks for listening.....
  4. Smithmom

    Smithmom Active Member

    Depression. Do you have joy in your life?

    I find thinking about the past and my addicted kid's future too depressing to let in to my mind for more than a few minutes at a time. Then I move on to something happier.

    I find the AA prayer a mantra sometimes. I can't change or control the past. I can't change or control my son. I can only focus on things I can change and control.

    I control my depression with medications. I've done therapy over the years which has helped tremendously. Learning and practicing to re-direct my thoughts took time. But I've mastered it now. The pain you describe doesn't consume me now. There are times when I have to distance myself from some people to keep my focus. That especially includes my mother. But I am responsible for my mental health and my life and I won't let anyone destroy those.
  5. Elsi

    Elsi Active Member

    Beebz, you have been through so much pain and loss. I am sorry you find yourself here and struggling. I hope you will keep reading the wisdom on the other posts and keep posting here to let us know how you are doing.

    What I can tell you is that you do not have to feel guilty for thinking about yourself and taking steps to make your life better, regardless of what your son is doing. The only person we truly can control is ourselves. And you deserve peace, and happiness, and safety. You are allowed to have those even if your son is not in a good place himself. You can still love him and still care without going down into the pit with him. Going down with him doesn’t help anyway.

    I am worried about your mental health right now. I know what crippling, paralyzing depression feels like. It is very hard to get out of, and sometimes impossible on your own. Are you seeing a counselor? Have you talked to your doctor? Are you taking any kind of medications for your depression right. Ow, and if not do you think perhaps it is something you should consider?

    Self care is vitally important when our kids are off the rails. It is so hard to disentangle our wellbeing from theirs.

    Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing.
  6. beebz

    beebz New Member

    Soo yeah, I'm medicated. However, there is not a magic pill to cope with life - please understand I am not being disrespectful to you. A pill isn't going to help with taking care of my grand daughters, taking care of my parents who are 89 and 84 who live with me, nursing a dog currently who just had an operation 2 days ago, another dog at this very moment I am deciding on putting down today or not. I haven't had any sleep being awake with my ill pups all night. Coping with life is what it is and a pill isn't going to help with any of my daily problems. A pill cant make anything go away, at all. I DO however take them. I take regular prozac and some buspar, gabapentin, regular epidurals for a severe back issue etc. I'm just so so so exhausted and sad. I've been on every pill on the market - I've had numerous side effects ie constapation, dizziness and switched so many times that they've run out of pills for me to try. And I refuse to try all the new crap that is shoved down our throats. It isn't that they don't work as much as the side effects are worse than the original issues. I poo 60 times a month and one of the drugs had me down to 4 times a month. I didn't want to trade off being a happy pooper for another pill to relieve the constipation . I'm not making excuses ; I've had very good care for many years with many opinions and I simply need to cope but my plate is so full. I am an only child now and there is zero, zip, nada, no one to help me with my adult child and his wife, their two kids, my parents living with me etc - hell, add a crazy neighbor on top of that who keeps me up all night by playing on my land at 3am literally in my backyard and thinks me calling the sheriff is being a *pussy* - lord have mercy on my soul. Remember that idiot in Kentucky who attacked the neighbor who was a senator and beat the tar out of him? It was national news - at any rate - I have a psycho neighbor, he really is nuts - and has the audacity to argue with me about playing in my backyard at 3am - says I'm a chronic complainer when he cuts down my forest because I have 5 acres of trees and he has 5 acres of grass and he thinks MY trees need to be cleared - it is impossible to argue or even speak to an ill mind who is already a felon for a hate crime in Alaska - soooo - lol -- I DO however find many many things to make me happy. I ride my bike, hike, fly kites - take looooong rides in my truck - play with me grand daughters like I'm 7 years old myself. Spoil them rotten. Set up tents in the house, let them make 3 feet tall bubbles in the jacuzzi . Picnic, go to fairs, festivals etc. Purposefully get lost on back roads. Hike in the middle of the night without flashlights. I have pets, a parrot who talks, an owl right outside my bedroom window - we build nest boxes and attracts Screech Owls and are going on 4 years now of mommies daddies and babies. That sort of thing. But, it is impossible for me not to think of or love my first born. Thanks for listening. I think my therapy is the internet and forums also.
  7. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    Hi beebz, I'm glad you posted.

    From what you have shared you don't have a full plate, honey, you have full buffet!! My goodness you have a lot to deal with.

    You have nothing to feel guilty about! You did not force your son to make his choices and get involved with doing drugs, he did that on his own. It is tragically sad that our adult children choose such destructive paths.
    I love my son dearly but I made a decision for myself years ago that I would no longer waste my time or energy worrying about him. I will no longer allow him to hold my emotions hostage nor steal my joy.
    I have my life to live and he has his life to live - it is what it is.
    It's been said many times that if Love alone could save our kids there wouldn't be a need for this site.
    We cannot save our kids, they have to want first to save themselves then do the hard work to make it happen.

    I'm so glad that you have such a wonderful variety of activities in your life that bring fill you with happiness.

    Something that helped me was to grieve my son. Yes, he's still alive but there were so many dark nights that I would wonder if he was lying dead in a ditch or abandoned warehouse. Worrying and wondering was consuming me. I knew I needed to change something. I mourned him. I grieved for the sweet loving little boy he used to be, for all the hopes and dreams I had for him, for the relationship I wished we could have had. Then I accepted to stark reality that yes, he very well could die and worse, I may never know. It was through the acceptance that I was able to really let go. I was able to move on and live my life.

    I have occasional contact with my son. He's currently in a half way house after getting out of prison. He claims he's sober and attending AA. I do not get my hopes up as I have been down this road far too many time with him. I, just as you, will always love my son but I cannot save him nor can you save your son.

    This journey that we all here share is not an easy one but we do not have to let our sorrow consume us.

    I'm so glad you are here with us!!

    I wish you some good restful nights of sleep and send you ((HUGS))
  8. Elsi

    Elsi Active Member

    Oh, Beebz, I know there is no magic pill. Nothing takes the problems away. We all just need to find ways that allow us to cope, and medications have been helpful for some. I'm glad to know you are engaging in self care and finding joy in your grands and other activities. Pets, nature, hiking, exercise all sounds great. Actually, it sounds like you are functioning quite well considering all that is on your plate! I hope you give yourself lots of credit for all of the things you are doing. Let go of the guilt - it is misplaced. Let go of the things you can't control, and focus on the things you have in front of you right now. It sounds like that is plenty! Hugs to you.
  9. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Beebz, I am so very sorry for your sadness and all you must care for. Clearly your heart is full of love but heavy with obligation. Is there any way you can afford caregivers to come to your home and help with your parents? Respite? A home security system to protect you from the wacky neighbor? Any friend, neighbor, person who can give you respite?

    You are one brave soul. I understand that medication (Paroxatene here) can keep us from that dark pit so that we can function but can not make us joyous in the face of real life despair.

    Anytime you want feedback or just to vent, we are here. I admire your strength and your amazing heart.

    Love and light!
  10. in a daze

    in a daze Well-Known Member


  11. beebz

    beebz New Member

    Hello all who replied. I love participating in a forum; it helps, it really does. I believe the last I participated I had a dog recovering from surgery and one who I was contemplating on letting go, euthanasia.
    I am a dog lover to a degree that a non dog lover would think is insane. My best friends say when they die, if there is such a thing as "coming back", they want to come back as my pet (dog).
    So, my husband arrived home from a work trip; I had informed him that my baby (dog) had either a seizure or a stroke. I carried 85 lbs of Boxer into the living room, laid down blankets and pillows and we said our goodbyes, I kissed him dozens of times, I held him, massaged him, laid cheek to cheek with him, rubbed all his favorite places and kept my lips on his fat little cheek- and then he died. I've lost 2 dogs now in the past 90 days and so much joy and my glory of living has left my home. Papi was not supposed to die last Thursday. It came as a shock. The last 4 dogs were ill for extended periods of time and I chose to end their suffering. But Papi, while deciding who what when where and how, and making him comfortable, and medicating him for pain, he took his last breathe in my arms.

    I spent the weekend with my grand daughters. I am struggling on full time custody, however, I get them every weekend from an Aunt in the family. We rode the hills leaf peeping (in the truck) we had a picnic, we flew kites, we fed geese, we laid on blankets and cuddled when the wind blew brisk in the early a.m., by noon we shed out coats ! We went Amish shopping and ate mass amounts of candy and sandwiches and homemade bacon ranch dip. We had dark chocolate raisons and milk chocolate raisons, we hiked. The next day we did "rails to trails" on our bicycles and had a quickie picnic. We ate lots of yummies all weekend and had cake for breakfast.

    Today, the hurt over my Papi and the absence of my first born is so dark and sad. We should never say we have favorites but those two are my favorites - lol - in their own way they are favored for certain things and the other humans and pets are favored for their certain attributes lol

    At any rate, yes, my son is alive yet I am grieving him. The absence of a son, who is on drugs and homeless, unemployed etc, those feelings and experiences daily are the same exact thing as grieving a death as I was once told by a Dr.

    My head is scattered. Actually Thursday night after losing my Papi (boxer dog) I went gambling and won 5k - I was a tad happy but my husband didn't crack a smile what-so-ever. He is still grieving the Boxer we lost 90 days ago. Then to come home to say goodbye to his second Boxer just tore him up. So, the casino win was like eh whatever, we'll put it in the bank and pay the bills. Apparently we've been through so much over the past several years that gambling was the only thing that we wanted to do; sit there like idiots and let machines take our money hoping for the 3 lucky symbols or numbers that would go ding ding ding and thinking that "one more spin" would be the one lol - entertainment for idiots. At least we didn't take to alcohol ! That would have been a 10 year blackout with DUI's and ending up in jail probably.

    So, here I sit, with a massive hurting heart over Papi my Boxer dog and my missing son. It is nearly impossible to shut off feelings. I let go , yes, finally, I stopped enabling , finally, I live my life, yes, but to get it out of your mind and heart is impossible.

    Thanks again for letting me vent ....
  12. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    I'm so very sorry to hear about the loss of you beloved boxer. I am a major animal lover and I know that hurt well.

    What a fantastic grandmother you are! How very special and lucky your grands are to have you!
    I love rails to trails - I have one near my home that I love, it's about 30 miles long.

    Lean into those feelings. Something I learned when my mother died 20 years ago is to embrace the pain we feel as it's a testimony for the love we have. Without love there is no feeling. I would rather embrace the pain and know that I have love in my heart that not know what love is at all.

    I'm glad you touched base with us. Again, I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your dogs.

    ((HUGS)) to you..........................
  13. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    I am so very, very, very sorry for your losses and your sons poor choices.

    I can not possibly explain here how much I love dogs, but I think in this way we are kissing cousins. I just rescued a third dog and the baby, as I call him, had to have major neurological surgery at our vet hospital at the university. I almost think that in general my heart weeps more for animals and small kids than for adults. I know thats terrible, but that is me.

    I do ststrong believe we all are souls of energy and all do come back over and over again for our soul to learn and evolve, animals imcluded.

    I send love and light to the Universe for your dog babies and pray that one day yoir son wakes up. I know now it seems remote, but where there is life there is hope.

    Big hugs to you.
  14. beebz

    beebz New Member

    So, I know there are bumper stickers, tee shirts, hats and the like, that say "I love my dog more than most people" - but I seriously do - I've been hurt mentally, emotionally and physically by humans more times in my life than I can remember. My drug addict (dead) sister, my drug addict (dead) brother, my own son, his wife; have all beat me. Once I said "get a job and buy your own hoagie" and I woke up on the floor after my brother threw me across the room. and so on and so on and so on with the others. This is partly why, when they died, I didn't feel much sorrow at all.
    So, about the dogs; in the last 3 months I lost my two favorite Boxers. They were my heartbeat. I used to say Papi (fawn boxer) had 17 hearts inside his body because he NEVER ever got angry at anything for any reason. There were times when I yelled at Papi, and really yelled at him to give me a break and he would walk right up to me, look me dead in the eyes and wag his tail all while locking his gaze at me and not moving an inch of his body other than his docked tail - I can't believe I haven't had many broken bones or a hip due to how much he followed me and I tripped over him. Once I walked around the kitchen bar and changed directions just to see what he'd do, and sure enough, he followed my every move. I walked down the hallway, in a room, out of the room, (one foot) into the room, out of the room, one foot into the bathroom, back out, towards him , he backed up, away from him, he came forward, we did the tango and the salsa lmao - but when I wasn't playing or "in the mood" and he would trip me up constantly, sometimes I would yell at him, loud, and again, he'd look dead into my soul, not blink, and wag his tail. My dogs never ever ever hurt me in any way shape or form, they never did one single wrong thing in their life and never got mad or disappointed in me. My one boxer was 85 pounds of pure slop towards the end; he drooled, (gravity, just like in human *boobs* tummys or butts,) gravity got a hold of his huge boxer jaws and it was slobber central streaming sometimes 10 inches on both sides. I seriously taught Papi that I could kiss him on the lips but he had to stay still - usually he would lap me back on the mouth nose neck eyes, bathe my face and hair - but there were times when I'd say "Papi, I want to kiss you, a lot, but you cant kiss me back this time" - and he learned, he really did, I'd say "my turn, shhhh, wait" and he'd let me kiss his beautiful bottom puffy lip only a boxer lover would know, - a little larger curled up and the softest thing ever. So yeah, my dogs have brought me great joy. Two 85 pound Boxers and one 65 pound boxer but they're all gone now. Recently I rescued a timid little *mutt amongst dozens of crazed pits in the shelter cowering for her life. A small girl dog, I've had a dozen boy dogs over the years - I usually have 4 at a time - at any rate - I now have a 20 lb little girl dog that I've only had a month or so now - and here we are, alone, just us - and she has warmed up to me after biting me and Papi 50 times in one day - I DO NOT give up on animals - so in spite of her biting us upon arrival - we were patient and now she is like a doll baby in my arms and on my lap all day every day. This morning we played the follow me game lol , like I used to with Papi (and all my dogs really) - She finally asked me "are you ready to sit or what"!!!!!????? After I made coffee, went outdoors to smoke, tended to the parrot, straightened up some things etc - she knew the tan recliner was next and she'd cuddle up to me and look deep into my eyes and say *its ok mommy - I love you dearly and always will* - I love dogs, can you tell? I love all animals mostly - they make me very happy; especially attracting screech owls in my yard only 50 feet away in a house that I built and am now going on 3 years of breeding (NOT in captivity) - just hobby - free - wild -
    So yeah, typing this and thinking of my animals and the joy they've brought me in life is certainly a gift - how did the creator know this?
    Again- thank you to all who read, reply and take the time to read my vents, thoughts and written therapy.

    I went outdoors moments ago, to smoke, listened to the cool rain hitting all the leaves and BOOM ! thoughts of my homeless soncrept in, of him, in the weather with no protection I suppose - Its so hard to have that thought and then try to put your head on a pillow and sleep............
  15. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    I too am a great animal lover. I love all critters, even bats and opossum! Yes, our little fur babies offer us such an unconditional love. My heart hurts for you - I know that pain of losing a fur baby.

    One thing I have learned over the years of my own son being homeless is they manage. I have been amazed to learn just how well homeless people can network together, finding shelter and food.
  16. Elsi

    Elsi Active Member

    Beebz, I completely understand. I am also very attached to all my animals. They mean as much to me as people. (More than most people.) I am so sorry for the loss of your beloved boxers. I know what that pain is like.

    My family wasn't actively abusive, but I was a weird kid (high functioning Aspergers, undiagnosed until well into adulthood). I didn't have a friend until my junior year of high school and was bullied and made fun of a lot. Animals were (and are) my refuge. They make a lot more sense to me than people do. They accept us for who we are, and ask nothing except that we be kind to them and take care of their most basic physical needs. They don't judge us. They don't care if we're cool or rich or powerful. They are pure love and acceptance. And they are always exactly who they are, and always right in the present moment. I think that's why they are so healing to be around.

    My partner and I currently have a motley crew of four formerly stray/feral cats and two rescue huskies. (You end up with a lot of homeless huskies, because people don't know what they are getting themselves into and often give up on them somewhere between 6 months and two years old. They need a lot of mental stimulation and physical exercise and are REALLY hard to train - they won't obey a command until they think it over and decide if they agree with you. They are also escape artists.) One of our huskies is almost 16 and has been in a doggie wheelchair for 7 years. One of our cats has 3 legs and one eye. We just lost a 20 year old kittie to kidney and thyroid disease. One of our other kitties is extremely shy due to abuse in a previous life and takes a lot of special handling. We arrange a lot of our lives around our special needs animals. My partner is a park ranger/wildlife manager, so we sometimes do wildlife rescue also. I'm so jealous of your screech owls! We'll have to build a box. We've had baby raccoons, a groundhog, a crow, ducklings (they still come back and live on our property in the summer), baby possums (cuter than you might realize).

    I also share your grief and worry about our homeless sons. I have learned mine is resourceful in finding temporary places to crash and something to eat. And he always seems to be able to find drugs or alcohol. But I worry all the time, especially now as the weather turns. I feel guilty being cozy in my warm comfortable house with my partner and my animals knowing his life is so unstable. I think of him on cold wet nights and wonder where he's found for himself to stay that night. My communication with him has been sporadic lately. It saddens me that this is the way he is choosing to live.
  17. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    I think animals are better souls than people. I seriously dont trust those who say they dont like animals.
  18. beebz

    beebz New Member

    As I write this I am shaking, I vomited in my mouth (sorry for all this information), I feel like I can't get out of this chair. It is so very cold, windy and snowy outdoors and my son is still homeless.
    Thanksgiving sucked - I am glad it is over. This is a hurt like no other. My hands feel weak. This was my first baby boy. ugh - the pain.

    I saw a post here, about a woman who bought her son a tent. I seriously considered it. I think constantly about where he is at night in this horrid weather. I can't even get out of bed to wee in the middle of the night without catching a horrible chill and the minute I do, I think of my son who is suffering. I crawl back in bed on my warm pillow and mattress and feel guilty. God this hurts. I never ever ever thought this would be my reality.

    No matter what I do and where I go I think of him.

    Thank you for listening -

    I feel like texting him this:

    why why why why why
    Its been 7 years since your first daughter was born
    You had 7 years to fix this -
    You've had 10 chances,bail outs, to fix this.
    You've been high for 20 years.
    Isn't it time -
    You're still young -
  19. Elsi

    Elsi Active Member

    Beebz, I am so sorry you are in such pain. And I am sorry that the holiday brought you no joy. I know what it is like to worry about a homeless son. And to feel guilty enjoying my own creature comforts, knowing I have the space for him if I would give in and let him stay here. (And also knowing that if I did it would never work, he would make no progress and I would have no peace.) It is hard.

    Do you have any idea where he is or where he might be sleeping? I have found that mine, when homeless, seems to be more resourceful than I realized. He seems to find places to be out of the cold in the worst of times, someone's couch or a shelter. And now he has found a friend who will let him stay for 2 months while he works and saves money for a place of his own (hopefully). I don't know anything about your son's situation, but I do know that my worst fears about mine sleeping on a sidewalk grate or under a bridge did not seem to be the reality. There is a community of sorts on the streets, I have learned.

    At times like these, I have had to learn to "change the channel" for my own sanity. To close the worry and pain away and force myself to think of other things. Please be gentle with yourself, and let yourself put down the burden of worry once in a while. Your worry will not help him, and only makes you weaker. You need to keep yourself strong. You deserve and are allowed to have a life beyond your son.

    I bought my son a warm coat, boots, socks and gloves, and took him some warm blankets. I did not invite him to come home with me. I know it will not work, even though he is actually making another attempt to be sober and work right now. We've been here before. And I know if I bring him back here progress stops. Entitlement and laziness come back. For my son, the only way forward seems to be through pain and struggle. Perhaps it is the same for yours.

    Sending you big hugs, and prayers for better days ahead.
  20. beebz

    beebz New Member

    Hi - Thank you so much for the reply. Every word you type is so true, and we, or I know this - yet the pain is so hard to bury.
    With my son it is repeat repeat repeat repeat - I feel like my life has become ground-hog day. He has worn out every chance and open door from at least a dozen people, sofas, campers etc. I don't have a clue where he sleeps. I thought he had shelter in the form of an SUV but my husband read in the paper that he was driving without an operators license and the rumor is; his vehicle got impounded. I cannot know for sure and I refuse to go to the town he is homeless in.
    To make me feel guilty, last time we texted he said something to the effect of being raped (he and/or his wife) last time they were homeless freezing to death in a small city in Ohio trying not to freeze to death in an abandoned home.

    When I'm in a certain mood I remember all the horror of the last 20 years; him throwing my husband nearly 15 feet across a room - blackening my eye - beating every inch of my physical body and leaving me with eye damage - totaling more cars than I can remember - TOTALING a car with his bare hands and a golf club (his brothers) in some kind of drugged/drunken/psycho state of mind. Every day I remember something else. 20 years is a long dang time, and I remember something else violent and sick and think, eff that ! ! ! ! capitol F him and her ! ! ! ! ! !
    Then you remember that baby boy, your first born, that you loved so much - maybe too much - I made a lot of mistakes.... it seems.

    I did tell him that if he and his wife put as much EFFORT and TIME into getting sober happy and healthy, including employed and a home for their family as they do to get high, that they'd probably be super super successful and wealthy. They can fight and lie like nobodies business to get high and lie, but imagine if that much effort went in the other direction - hell - he could be a brain surgeon !

    I haven't accomplished much. I'm sitting here with my pup and I visited my mom and dad 3 times already today and vented and also told them "I don't know how you did it, I really don't" - they lost their son, their daughter, their daughters son - all to the druggie life. - goes without saying, my brother, sister and nephew.

    The stories and lies that come with this are absolutely insane. My son and his wife have filled my head with so much junk that I can't figure out whats what. I fell for it every single time. dang-it - now I'm mad.

    The stories are so sick and long (blaming others) that I would need a week to type them here. Every time was a lie and/or excuse why this or that happened and I can't believe how extravagant, extreme, sick, twisted and far fetched they are to "blame" anyone and everyone but himself.

    The worst part is his heart. He has such a large heart for his girls, animals and the underdog so to speak when he is sober - ugh

    again - thank you for listening -
    beebz (on a rant ) - my head is spinning - I should fire up the vacuum and do something constructive.....