6 year old son keeps getting kicked out of school

[AppleCori]

Hi Kim,

I'm sorry that it has come to this with his new school.

Really consider whether the alternative school is the best placement for your son.

He is so young, there is plenty of time to try again with school in a year or two when you and the doctors have gotten a better Understanding of his particular needs and what to do about them, if you choose that route.

What does your hubby think?

 

[kim75062]

The hubby is just as lost as I am with all of it, if not more. He leaves it to me to decide what's best and then supports what ever decisions I make.

I don't think the alternative school is a good placement for him. Right now he still wants to go to school and says he likes school. I don't want to mess that way of thinking up for the future. I'm afraid that they will try to force compliance instead of helping him learn ways to cope.

As of now the school is unable to handle him and I think feeling defeated. The school psy has spent 10 mins with him since starting the new school and Occupational Therapist (OT) has had 1 20 min session. I don't think he's getting the support he needs there to succeed.

 

[BusynMember]

Do you have an idea what youd like for him? Where you would like him to go?

Is he in therapy? Educators are teachers. They don't know how to teach kids that are very hard how to cope. They aren't psychologists.. And they can't spend that much time with one student. There are other kids there who can handle school and need to learn. Your son disrupts that. Parents complain.

Why not look at the alternative school. Your son is not able to behave quietly in a regular setting so it is unlikely any mainstream class will allow him to stay. Not good for the other kids. Not good for him.

I am sorry. But I am not surprised. It's not a bad thing for a differently wired child not to go to a conventional classroom, which he can't conform to and makes him feel like a bad egg.

Put your pride and feelings aside and ask yourself if this is because you don't want him to go to Special Education or if it is really not a good idea. Use your awesome mom gut!!

 

[kim75062]

No therapy yet, still waiting on appointment.

I understand teachers can't dedicate all day to one child, that's why a para is there. But shouldn't training for educators that are directly caring for him but part of the plan? So far the teachers have no specific training for kids with behavior problems and the paras have pretty much no training in anything.

I have researched the school in the past. Teachers, counseled and other staff have all said it's a bad place for kids with disabilities. It has nothing to do with pride or my feelings. I've been pushing the school system for a year to get him an IEP because he is different and needs supports. I wanted him in a Special Education class and they said no, they don't exist anymore.

What I don't want is my 6 year old is a school with seriously disturbed children and teenagers there for drug and weapons offenses. He does not need to be exposed to that and I worry he will learn more bad behaviors.

 

[susiestar]

It sounds like it is time to fight like heck to keep him where he is. I am not at all surprised you are having to do this. Earlier in this thread a poster named Sue gave excellent advice about asking for an IEP evaluation, timelines, etc that was very detailed. Go back to what she posted, look over what you ahve and have not followed to the letter, and ask her for help. Not me, and I think SRL is her username, and she is absolutely incredible.

You may be in for a real fight. Getting the district to give you an IEP with real, measurable goals and then to actually follow that IEP can be MUCH harder than you think. Once you get the IEP, the battle is only about half won, and must be frequently re-battled. This is why you need to learn Special Education law, to have a Parent Report, and to get all the help you can here. Many of us have been through this war. Asking SRL for help, and doing exactly what she says is a HUGE step up that your district won't expect you to have.

You CAN fight this. THey DO have the requirement of FAPE in LRE and an alternative school is NOT the least restrictive environment. But it is GOING to be a HUGE fight and you are going to need to get up to speed on Special Education law very fast.

 

[kim75062]

i forgot to add that last week a advocate from the dept of disabilities? i think called me and is going to take his case. She is sending out the consent forms as of yesterday for me to sign and then will send a letter of representation. She is not an attorney but if the need arises where I need one her office then assigns him one.

 

[susiestar]

WOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

This is AWESOME!!!! This should be an amazing resource for you! I think that the school has already violated his rights hugely by having suspended him so many times and for so many days, and the advocate will be able to help you stop that nonsense. This is part of him learning that if he lifts a chair then he gets to go home and play for a day, that type of thing, rather than be redirected and kept at school where he has work to do, etc.... I never did get the point of suspension, but that was me. I know my difficult child LOVED in school suspension. It was quiet, he was allowed to read the rest of the time, no one pestered him, what wasn't to love. My youngest got it once and also loved it, actually asked if he could have it for the rest of the week when they told him he could be let out early to go back to class. All he wanted was a quick trip to the library to get another couple of books to read for the afternoon. Really really flustered the vice principal, which made me rather chuckle. After I got off the phone, of course.

Anyway, I am SOOO glad you have an advocate, and I hope and pray that they are as helpful as they are reputed to be. Do NOT agree to anything without them!

 

[AppleCori]

something to think about--

I don't know if I would push to keep my child in a place where he is unwanted. Just my opinion, as I haven't been in this situation.

Sorry that your hubby seems uninvolved-- that makes things so much harder for you. I would talk to him about putting all the burden on you.

 

[kim75062]

something to think about--

I don't know if I would push to keep my child in a place where he is unwanted. Just my opinion, as I haven't been in this situation.

Sorry that your hubby seems uninvolved-- that makes things so much harder for you. I would talk to him about putting all the burden on you.

It's not that he's unenvolved, he's just at a loss. He trusts that I know what is best for our son. I don't think of it as a burden. He will tell me his option on everything and offer suggestions, but he trusts me to make the right decisions because I'm the one with him all the time and know his problems better.

Due to all of our sons problems I'm not working and home with him or the one the school calls etc. the hubby works all day almost everyday to make up the difference from the loss of income.

 

[kim75062]

this sums up my progress with the school for today .

 

[kim75062]

I have gave up on the school. I'm withdrawing him Monday.

 

[susiestar]

WOW! What happened? That is a pretty big change. Not saying that I don't understand or support you, just that it seems sudden. Of course I was the strange mom who sometimes had one child in school and two homeschooled or vice versa. I always felt the decision had to be based on what was best for the individual child and what options were available for that child at that time, not a blanket decision for the entire family. Mostly because my 3 kids are so very very different.

I am assuming that you will homeschool him for the rest of the year? I hope you can continue to explore why he had such a tough time in the classroom with the evaluations, because I think something was going on there. I will say that it takes time to settle into homeschooling, and it means months not weeks. I would look into local homeschool groups and their activities, usually you can find them online. Many are religious though if you are not, your area may have some that are not religiously based.

You also may want to explore the HSLDA, Homeschool Legal Defense Assn ( http://www.hslda.org/ ) . Their website can help you understand the state laws and how best to comply with them and avoid hassles. I found them invaluable esp when my district tried to refuse to follow state laws requiring them to issue letters excusing homeschooled children from attending public schools. The district didn't have a leg to stand on, violated our rights and tried to get the police to arrest me, and ended up with their superintendent in HUGE trouble. Knowing your rights is ALWAYS a good thing, in my opinion.

I am sorry things went badly with the school. I know you had such high hopes a few weeks ago. I really hope that things get better soon.

 

[kim75062]

To sum it up they have not followed his IEP, they insist that the alternative school is the only place for "kids like him", and they have gave up after a few frustrating weeks.
The lssp has spent 10 mins with him since being moved to the new school. I talked to him today and he really knew nothing about my son. Which shows me he's not invested in actually helping him.
Occupational Therapist (OT) has 1 20 min session. But no wobble chair was tried, no rubber band chair leg thing, no weighted vest and no raised line paper in the classroom.
The teacher would really be great for him if he was there consistently, (2 inservice full days, 1 1/2 day and out for 3 days sick.) out of the 19 school days my son has been there's in the last 30 school days.
The paras have been there for a few hours some days and not at all others, which leads to issues with transitions that end up in trying to escape.
They tried to punish him by sending him to ISS which he loved, and I think put the idea in his head that doing "bad behavior" gets me out of this crowed classroom where I'm not learning anything new and don't want to be into a better room with more attention and fun things to do.
The principal seems to think that he just has unpredictable behaviors for no reason. The answer every time I ask why did this happens is "we don't know, nothing lees up to or provoked the behavior". Because he's so difficult and was pushed on the new school I think the principal is just frustrated and gave up.
And I agree that I'm not going to force the school into keeping a child there that they don't want. Nothing good will come of it.
I'm a member of the Texas home school coalition already and they provide all the free legal help you need to deal with the school board if they decide they really want to try to push anything. Also in Texas all parents are required to do is withdraw their student and give them a letter of intent to home school. There's no real requirements, and the school has no legal leg to stand on against parents choosing that.
At this point I'm sure the school will be happy to be rid of him and me .

 

[susiestar]

This sounds so frustrating! It could have been such a great fit with a little consistency and some common sense! Texas homeschooling is a LOT easier than the state we used to live in.

Few kids act out for 'no reason'. That is an absolute fact. It may not be a reason that is obvious to an adult, but it will make sense to the child. My daughter still has what we call "J Logic" She can do things that seem totally incomprehensible, but if you ask her why, there WILL be a reason and it WILL make sense. It will likely make me laugh, or pull out my hair, but it will be there. Example: why did you (4 yo J) color the kitty's belly green with a marker? I wanted to practice coloring where you couldn't tell if I colored outside the lines. He is dark outside the white area, so you cannot see if I went outside the lines.

Now I STILL, 17 yrs later, have NO idea how she got him to lay still for that because he hated to have his belly touched, but he had a green belly for a week. I didn't know whether to laugh or pull out my hair over that one, but she did have a reason, didn't she?

Your son has a reason for what he does. The idiot school staff just are not smart enough to figure it out. Or to follow his IEP. If you can homeschool, it may be worth it. Especially if you can get involved with groups of others. School may just not be the right fit for him right now. Especially if they are teaching him that bad behavior gets rewarded.

I think I got lucky that my youngest didn't get ISS until he was in junior high and by then he was motivated enough to get good grades and stay out of trouble to keep from getting it again. He really really enjoyed ISS. I mean LOVED it. No one bugged him, or talked to him, or interrupted him when he was thinking or reading or daydreaming. They had to shake him out of a daydream to send him home or he would have missed his bus, lol.

You seem to have a pretty good handle on some of the problems the school is having. At least the ones they are creating. I think working with at least a private Occupational Therapist (OT) would be an excellent thing because he shows signs of some sensory issues, esp with large groups. I hope you continue to seek help for his challenges, and that time, maturity and learning at HIS pace help with the rest.

I wish I could say I was surprised that they didn't follow his IEP at all, or that they didn't spend any time with him. I know more than a few families who have moved from your state for the sole reason that the schools flat out refused, categorically, to follow the IEP that they fought for. I know families who were told to go ahead and sue the school, even if they won the school STILL was NOT going to implement the IEP any longer than it took for the people forcing them to do things to leave the building. Not just one case, but from families in Dallas and Fort Worth and Houston and Austin and in small towns around Texas. Generally they either end up moving or homeschooling.

 

[kim75062]

Update: First week of homeschooling went OK. We ended up not doing even half of what I had planned but he (all of us) did have the flu and was REALLY sick for 2 days. He still has the lingering cough now but besides that hes better. He is more resistant now then he was before with sitting down to do his work but hopefully that improves with a little more time and feeling better.

 

[AppleCori]

With everyone sick, you can't really judge too much on that first week.

He may be more resistant because of the negative feelings associated with schoolwork from the bad experiences he had in school, feelings that he probably can't express.

You could try a lighter load until after the New Year, concentrating on the basics and doing some fun stuff.

Have you tried doing on-line stuff rather than lots of pencil-and-paper work, for now?

Have you seen any of the behaviors that he had in school come out at home, now that he is home for school?

 

[kim75062]

I'm sure its the negative association with the school work now from his bad experiences in the school.

I have seen none of the other behavior problem like the school was dealing with at all.
I did home school him the last 4 months of last year because of the running away from school problem and that never carried over to home either.

As far as paper and pencil work goes, he only has maybe 30-45 mins worth of it a day. I think that quality over quantity is way more important.

We do a subject a day, and a theme for each week. This weeks theme is Christmas (last week was to). Today was math day, we did a few money counting work sheets, counted up his piggy bank and he went shopping with his money. We are also working on measurements so after dinner was Christmas cookie making time where all those ingredients need measured.

Tomorrow is social studies day and we will be learning about the history of Hanukkah through a book and cartoon video I have (he already knows Christmas). Then I will teach him how to play spin the dreidel (and he will probably win all of my money because hes great with tops).

We do A LOT of hands on activities and no electronics before lunch time (educational or not). And he needs the hands on stuff to help with his poor muscle tone in his little fingers.

If anyone else has any suggestions that would be great! I really have no idea what I'm doing more then a week at time. I did find the TEA list of what is needed to be learned for 1st graders here and theres NO way that the public school is any where close on that list. Luckily he knows most of it and has mastered some of it already.

 

[susiestar]

One thing that really helped my kids with math was taking them to garage sales in the warmer months. They got a dollar or two, sometimes in change, and then they had to handle transactions for what they wanted. All 3 of mine LOVED it, and of course charmed people into ridiculously cheap prices. But they learned SO MUCH! Not just about making change, but about buying things, the cost of things, what to do when you want something and don't have enough money, about negotiating, and many other things. It was more than I really expected, mostly we did garage sales because I liked them and my kids went through a ton of clothing and books. But they learned a TON from them.

 

[kim75062]

He counted out over $6 in his change yesterday at the register, I don't think the teenager cashier was very impressed lol luckily the only other customer was another mom that thought it was great.

 

[AppleCori]

My daughter has always loved a challenge.

For instance, regarding the counting, and adding in an engineering challenge, try something like this:

Gather some supplies like plastic wrap, straws, foil, paper egg cartons, T P tubes, tape, etc. and have son make a boat. (If this would be too difficult or frustrating, modify to his level).

The next challenge is to see if the boat floats, first, and if it does, how much money (coins) can we put on it, counting one at a time, until it sinks.

If this is easily accomplished, up the challenge by taking out the most utilized item(s) and see if he can make a boat from other items. Or challenge him to use less items, like only use three instead of four items.

Try to limit or eliminate your help and see what he comes up with.

Another challenge my daughter liked was to make a ball run, and use whatever balls you have available (small rubber balls from gum machines are my favorite). If/when this challenge is easily met, time the descent and challenge him to find a way to make the ball take longer to get to the floor, but the ball run can't be made any taller.

You get the gist.

Also:

The Khan Academy has a wonderful progression of math skills that might be helpful in making sure he learns the math that he needs.
They have also introduced a grammar program, though he may be too young for that, not sure.

Spelling City is an online site that has games to help practice your own spelling words, or use their lists.

Sonlight (and their secular counterpart, BookShark) has probably one of the best history and science curriculums out there. If nothing else, it is an excellent book list for readers and read-alouds that can be found at the library.

A program called Good and Beautiful has a great language arts program (though I didn't use it in the early elementary years). It can be downloaded free.

I also like Singapore Math, Standards Edition. Very thorough and rigorous math program.

Good luck, I hope your day is going well!

Apple