kim75062

Active Member
Yes They are working on all the assessments for an IEP now. Its only 2 weeks into the school year and they have 30 days for that part and another 45 days to actually do the IEP. Hd they listened to me last year this would of all been done by now.
 

kim75062

Active Member
The y called me 3 times today to come up there. The last time was right before 1pm when they were supposed to observe him in his classroom. Well he has been in the office since 8am for refusing to do his work and then later trying to run off. Then he kicked the para again for blocking the door. The spent about an hour alone with him doing assessments. By 2pm he was done and returned to the office. I guess at some point they told the para to go home because I was told either sit here with him the rest of the day or take him home. So I spent the rest of the day in ISS with him.
 

kim75062

Active Member
today I was there by 8am. He refused to follow directions and ran off down the hall. he was in the counselors office when I got there. They tried to get me to take him home and I told them no they have to learn to deal with him and keep him there. Then they tried to get me to go to 1st grade with him. I told the principal he could go to first grade with him. I was going to go home and clean my garage that I already had half in the driveway. I guess they got the point because they didn't call me again today. But from reading his behavior check list from today he spent all day except the last 2 hours in the office. I guess that's better then yesterday. But I still cant understand what he could possibly be doing in that room that's so disruptive that he gets sent to the office for almost the entire day. Wednesday cant come fast enough to get him with a psy that might actually be able to help him. She isnt covered by my ins. but no one that has has good reviews is. Whatever it ends up costing will be worth it if they can help him.

Another thing I have been reading online a lot of people have put there kids on abilify and/or Prozac for anger and anxiety issues. Anyone here have any experience with that?
 

mof

Momdidntsignupforthis
My son is on Prozac for anxiety...but he's an adult. He has found it to be the best so far. Not sure how it would with someone so young.
 

Sister's Keeper

Active Member
My friend's son is on abilify, and he feels that it wors for him. He is older, though, a teen, and he has High-Functioning Autism (HFA).

Is your son able, at all, to verbalize why he doesn't want to do the work or why he runs away? I'm having trouble understanding a kid that begs to go to school and then really seems to dislike it.

Mine refused to do things in school because she was embarrassed that her work "wasn't good," but along with that she didn't want to go to school at all.

It took a long time to drag it out of her, but, again, it was a special needs pre-school so they were used to dealing with this type of behavior.

I hope you get some answers from the psychiatric. I think once you get a diagnosis it will help in understanding why this behavior is occurring then you can get a good plan in action of how to deal with it.
 

MommaK

Member
A friend of mine has been on Prozac since she was very young. She is an adult now. She takes it because she has trichotilimania and the Prozac decreases her urge to pull her hair.
 

Malika

Well-Known Member
Prozac for a 6 year old? Personally, I would steer well clear. Change the surroundings rather than deliver a chemical cosh to a very young child would be my take on it.

I can understand why he would want to go to school only for it go so horribly wrong. Maybe he keeps wanting to get it right and nobody is hearing him or helping him do that?
 

susiestar

Roll With It
My older kids each took prozac or a similar medication at least once. For my daughter, medications like prozac were NOT a good thing. They made her hyper and she behaved in ways that were really out of character. She came off of them quickly and they were only meant to be a temporary thing to help her cope with some overwhelming situations that I doubt anyone could handle without medications. For my son, medications are still crucial. It took having him take 3 different medications for him to be capable of moderating his behavior and emotions. I did not take prozac as a child because it did not exist, but I have taken it as an adult with wonderful results.

My son has been on an antidepressant most of the time since he was 7. We finally found really good help for him at that age and started medications. It took quite a LOT of trial and error to start to figure out exactly what medication combo could help him. I was a true pain in the tender regions for several psychiatrists during this process. If they had another theory of what was wrong, I insisted that they follow accepted protocols for treating that problem before I would agree to a medication. He never took a medication that I did not at least do a basic search to read what I could about it. The problem that I thought was major was that the docs would want to change his diagnosis and medication plan but they almost never wanted to follow the medication protocol set down by the board of child and adolescent psychiatrists for that condition. Mostly they waffled between Asperger's (which is my child right down the line, thankfully a fairly mild version) and Bipolar. The medications like prozac can make a person with bipolar go into a manic stage which is usually not a good thing. This is ESPECIALLY true in children. The medication protocol says that if a child has bipolar, you start with mood stabilizers, then antipsychotics, and then if they still tend to be depressed, you add a very small dose of antidepressant slowly and carefully. The doctors we met, and that most of my friends here met, wanted to either start with antidepressants or they wanted to start with both a mood stabilizer and an antidepressant at the same time. If you make more than one change at a time, how do you know what is causing a change in behavior or symptoms? You simply cannot know. If he was to slide into difficult behaviors at this point, I would push for the genetic testing for what medications are most likely to work. It gives the best odds of finding successful medications in the shortest amount of time and medication trials. It won't tell you the magic bullet, but it can help you find the right family of bullets. As I understand it, the genetic tests run from $1300 to $2000, so make sure you know if your insurance will cover it (most do from what I can tell) and how much your out of pocket costs will be.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
There is no one medication that helps everyone. For me and my fsmily, Prozac was worse than poison. It had one of the worse affects on me that any antidepressant had. My daughter took it for a brief while and it made her so hyper and impulsive thar she put a k ife to her throat.Three weeks in the hospital at age 17 My autistic son became psycotic on it. I thank you he the pills down the toilet.

Finding the right medication, if medications are what the individual needs, is a trial and error game, less so now that they have a genetic maker test to show the doctor what may or won't work. Insist on one before anyone gives your child any medication. medications don't help everyone. Some actually get worse on medications. THe problem with kids is that often the first few diagnoses areally wrong..
So what are you medicating? Do they even know? My son with autism was being medicated for childhood bipolar, and it turns out he clearly doesn't have it. The psychiatrist insisted. My gut said autism. Should have trusted my mom gut. Problem is psychiatrists do not all understand that some neurological differencesay look likeentail illness...and this psychiatrist did not know. Scary!!! My son spent a few years on heavy drugs for a mental illness he doesn't have. He became obese. He still did not lose that drug weight

It took me ten yearsat as an adult with a serious mood disorder to find a medication that truly helped me and it is paroxatene, although many can't take paroxatene. It's good for me. No one size fits anyone except you.

Many times I felt like a guinea pig, but now they do have.the test I talked about. So it's a little more scientific. Medicaid covers it. I assume all insurance does in 2016. Maybe not. Check.

I think seeing a neuro Psycologist for intensive testing is best before medicating. My autistic son is now grown, doing great, working and on his own. Interventions helped much better than medications ..He takes none.

There is no rush. Find out what is wrong and then get a second opinion. Medication is serious. Don't take it lightly. Research each medication before you allow your child on it. Knowledge is power. It's ok to refuse.

Repeat: see a neuro psychologist. In the US, they are the most thorough diagnostic professionals. Do not trust a pediatrician, teacher or plain therapist for a diagnosis. They are not the experts with the right intensive training. Don't listen to what they think. They are not legally able to diagnose.

Good luck. It's not easy or fast to find the right answer. My son was 11 before he finally got the right diagnosis. I was happy to o wean him off his lithium and seroquel. He was much more alert and bright eyed without them. His defiant behavior had disappeared years before this. He is fully functional today.
 
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HMBgal

Well-Known Member
My grandson was very similar: meltdowns, elopement, immature skills across the board from day one of school (and pre-school). We actually only sent him for a couple of hours at first. Not ideal, and the school finally came through with a plan we could live with. Between that and some maturation and getting used to things, it got better. Not that grandson is out of the woods, oh no, but so much better. And at 10, they did put him on a low dose of Ability and Intuniv. We hate it, but it has made a difference for him. Everyone's situation is so different and the trial and error of no medications vs. medications, this behavioral technique over another, oh so many things we tried-- He's in a new school this year with no aide, a big class with a cold-fish teacher that kind of ignores him, and while that sounds awful, he's stepped up and is managing things. If not 100%, at least he hasn't been suspended yet this year. We were getting 10 suspensions a year, and too many in-school suspensions to count. I feel your struggle, I do.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I have a friend who works in a classroom for kids the school said were too disturbed to be in a regular classroom. What did they do that was so disruptive? Hit/kick teacher. Swear non stop in a loud voice. Throw desks at other kids. Spit on kids or teacher. Run around the class. Run oUT of the class so the teacher had to stop teaching to chase them. Hurt innocent kids. Badly sometimes. Stab themselves or others with various items. Pull down pants, exposing self. Tripping students who walk by. Stealing.

I get it. If a child in any of my children's classes had hurt them, there would have been hell to pay. That's why kids who act out usually can't be in regular classrooms and that is how they disrupt. I'm sure there are ways I missed . Even a meltdown would have upset my kids and disrupted their learning time.

The police for a six year old? I find that INHUMANE, but we gave no good resources for this in our country. Sad.

One last opinion. We got horrible results from school Psycologists. They don't exactly hire the best and brightest. Be leery of what they say. They are all part of the school district. I always preferred private professionals who have no school.ties. we received a few very wrong diagnoses from the school psychologist so be aware of the possibility that they may not have an answer. It is a real struggle. I'm so sorry.
 

HMBgal

Well-Known Member
My take on school psychs is that their main job is to administer tests that gauge academic levels and IQ, and qualify or disqualify for IEPs. They don't get into therapies or discussions about the student's emotional difficulties. School psychs look for one or more of the 13 qualifying conditions that impact learning at school. And the kiddo has to fit into one or more of those categories. There's usually a primary qualifying "label," in grandson's case, emotional disturbance, with a secondary other health impaired (ADHD falls here). The real therapy comes from outside the school district, although you may be able to get services from a county mental health system. We had a counselor come to grandson's school once a week. That was from the IEP, couldn't have that happen without it.
 

mof

Momdidntsignupforthis
You stated that you can't understand what he does that is disruptive. I would want a bird's eye view of what's going on. Is that possible?

Certainly you must know some of his behaviors. But, I would want to see how things are handled. Maybe just an observation without home knowing you are there.
 

kim75062

Active Member
thanks everyone. He was prescribed risperdal months ago from the first psy i took him to. I never game it to him because of the possible permanent side effects. Abilify seems to work the same way but without as many bad side effects. My only concern is if he has some kind of bipolar that it could make him worse. I don't think he does but I don't know. I stopped giving him the Concetta Friday. it just wasn't having any good effects on him and I'm not sure if some of the aggression is coming from that. Plus he goes to a new psy Wednesday and I want her to see him as he is and not on any medications. He did run out of class this AM and ran to the front office. They got him to go to the counselors office and he refused to do anything. he stayed on a bean bag and refused to move, talk to them or anything. The only word he would say is no. He wasn't crying or yelling and no aggression towards anyone today. He just wasn't doing anything. So I picked up all 90 pounds of him and took him to the front office and then home. I told him if he cant go to class and be a first grader he can go home and be a toddler in his room for the rest of the day. He has no toys, no electronics just his books and his kitten. Id take away the kitten to but its annoying and I don't want to deal with it following me around lol
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
oh my. I would not use trying to humiliate him into behaving. It is not his fault and all that will do is make him feel like a loser. Please dont talk like that to him. Instead find out what is wrong (something is) and work with the professionals to help him overcome his difficulties. please, please never use shaming. He cant help it or he would.

I am advising long evaluations by somebody like a neuro psycologist. Just observing him for an hour WILL NOT show the truth about what is wrong, even ifthe person says he or she knows whats wrong. He needs lots of testing. My son was tested for ten hours in two day five hour blocks. He was tested intensively and we also had to fill out a lot of forms.

Mini visits are not evaluations. Your son may or may not show this person what he or she needs to see, but in a short period of time you cant really do much testing or see patterns. I strongly recommend a very intensive evaluation. your son is going to be hard to pinpoint. Most kids are. It takes more than a few hour sessions of talking.

Trust me, you dont want to get the wrong diagnosis. We did many times and it put wrong medications in my sons body and held him back from getting help for his real issues. Dont make my mistake! Be very thorough.
 
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susiestar

Roll With It
I agree that a short evaluation will likely result in more trial and error with his life than really should happen. We have had very little luck with neuropsychologists though others here have had wonderful luck. My state can just be a little backward, and the only neuropsychologist we found dealt only with preconceived notions and his own stupid ego. He made up his mind long before he ever saw my child. It resulted in my daughter flat out refusing to speak with another doctor, not that this doctor would even do testing - he 'knew' what her problem was and said no testing was needed - based on a report by an undergraduate psychology student who said, "Hi what's your name" to my daughter. Literally, those are the only words she said to J.

If you have no luck with or finding a neuropsychologist, look for a developmental pediatrician. They often work with a group of other psychologists and psychometrists and then the group does the evaluation. My son had 3 days of 3 hour appts with 1-2 doctors at each session. Then they met as a group and discussed ALL the results and their impressions of my son. It was thorough and gave an evaluation that has been accurate and helpful, right down to catching his depression being "intractable" and likely needing more than 1 antidepressant. He is on 3, including one for the ADHD part of his Aspergers (strattera). Taking any one of the 3 away means that he doesn't function well. He actually hasn't needed more than a minor dosage tweak in seven years. It hasn't all been bump free, but once he decided to work with the medications, well, it was possible for him to make the changes and turn his life into something that he enjoys. It wasn't any of our plans, but it works for him and that is ALL that we ever wanted for him.

I do agree that tearing him down because the school doesn't meet his needs is counter-productive. Our kids get more than enough messages from everyone else about how they are worthless and useless. They need love and acceptance from us. But I also understand how frustrating it can be to have to figure out how to cope with everything. So we all stumble and make mistakes and say things we shouldn't. The best we can do is to try not to do it again if possible.

I understand about the kitten. My kids each had something that we NEVER, under ANY circumstances or in ANY situation, took away. It was their comfort item, that one thing that helped them self soothe. Wiz had a special teddy bear, Jess had a blanket with a certain texture, and thank you still has an absolutely ANCIENT blanket that my sister in law's mother in law made for my husband's now 30 yo nephew. It is on thank you's bed at this very minute. Unless he got hot and kicked it onto the floor. Plus sometimes you have to overlook something if you just can't deal with it at that time. My mom always said that if you are not going to make "NO" happen, to just keep your mouth shut and pretend you don't see whatever they are doing.

I hope you get more help figuring this out soon. By the way, I sent you a private message. If you look at the top right part of the page you will see "Inbox". Click that and you should be able to click on the message and read it. This form of the forum may call them conversations, but it is the same as what we used to call a private message.
 

kim75062

Active Member
oh my. I would not use trying to humiliate him into behaving. It is not his fault and all that will do is make him feel like a loser. Please dont talk like that to him. Instead find out what is wrong (something is) and work with the professionals to help him overcome his difficulties. please, please never use shaming. He cant help it or he would.

I am advising long evaluations by somebody like a neuro psycologist. Just observing him for an hour WILL NOT show the truth about what is wrong, even ifthe person says he or she knows whats wrong. He needs lots of testing. My son was tested for ten hours in two day five hour blocks. He was tested intensively and we also had to fill out a lot of forms.

Mini visits are not evaluations. Your son may or may not show this person what he or she needs to see, but in a short period of time you cant really do much testing or see patterns. I strongly recommend a very intensive evaluation. your son is going to be hard to pinpoint. Most kids are. It takes more than a few hour sessions of talking.

Trust me, you dont want to get the wrong diagnosis. We did many times and it put wrong medications in my sons body and held him back from getting help for his real issues. Dont make my mistake! Be very thorough.

I have had no luck on finding a neuro psy. And my useless INS wont cover any doctor that might actually know what their doing. I have "obama care". I am literally paying $400 a month for medicaid with more restrictions and co-pays.

And as far as humiliating him he has more self-esteem and self confidence then any child I have ever seen. When he was told his choice as to get up and walk to class or go home he choose to stay on the floor and ignore me. I did not see the red faced/crying/scared little boy when I got there yesterday. He was being purely defiant and looking at me to see how far he was going to be able to take it. Now if I had had any sleep yet (was out of town working and no sleep since 6am Saturday morning) I would of sat there and waited it out. I'm still not sure as to why the para could not wait it out. eventually he would of gotten up off that beanbag. they were with him less then an hour and couldn't deal with him sitting quietly on the floor. I get he was being defiant and completely non productive but he wasn't running off, screaming at them, hitting them or throwing things at them.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Paras cost the district lots of money so there you have it. Also, kids can disrupt a class a lot just by blurtIng if your son does that. Other parents do complain and the kids usually end up in classes like my friend works in. Parents, right or wrong, want their own kids in a quiet classroom with no drama so their kids learning is not intetrupted. Regular teachers don't know what to do with special needs children.

I'm sorry you are going through this. You can find neuro psychologists at university hospitals aND my experience has been that university hospitals take Medicaid. Try them!
 
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