8 year old autistic child taken from school in handcuffs

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Rotsne, Jan 14, 2009.

  1. Rotsne

    Rotsne Banned


    I would be angry too. Why involve the police? Here we don't have either campus police or police coming to schools unless we are talking about weapons being taking onto school campus.

    An for an 8 year. Push her off. Order her to a neutral corner and wait for her to cool down. They need space to do that. When my son was 6-8 his temper was bad. He threw things at us. He cursed at us and told us that he would kill us. It went away after a few years without medication. Our family coach told us to sent him to a neutral corner (not his room) and by using the same approach every time, he learned his lesson.

    In school setting a new strategy seems to be a success. First the students from their first day in pre-school are taught how to up-scale a conflict and down-scale a conflict by a Norweigian version of the Step-by-step system developed for children in that agegroup.

    Next a nationwide campaign was started against school bullying with our crown princess sponsoring it in the media.

    As part of this campaign almost every school started to train students to resolve conflicts so it wasn't just the teachers who have to intervene when two students are trying to start a fight. As it is the case with peer court, youth tend to listen more carefully to peers than adults.

    As for the clothes issue which seem to lead to this incident the solutions seems to be that the school invests in jumpsuits, so the students who shows up in less inappropriate clothes can be issued a jumpsuit instead of being sent home. (However, I don't see how a cow T-shirt can mandate a jumpsuit. I think that you need to see skin or a tatoo before we are talking of covering them up).

    Why involve the police? Where did this zero-tolorance strategy start?
  2. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    ON top of everything you've just said - what the H was wrong with just letting her wear her cow shirt to the party?

    Honestly, I just don't understand a system like this. It doesn't happen like this in Australia, not at all. Anyone laying their hands on a child, especially an Aspie child mid-rage, deserves all they get. Charging the CHILd with battery? They put "thumb bruises" on the kid. No teacher would have been hurt, if they

    1) hadn't tried to make her take off her favourite shirt; and

    2) hadn't tried to hold her down.

    The trouble is, Rotsne - you and I might feel this way, because in our neck of the woods, it's not done this way. But unfortnately, there are increasingly large parts of the world where they are so anxious over personal safety that precedents have already been set, to go to whatever lengths deemed necessary in the heat of the moment, to make one child conform and behave according to what rules have been set down.

    The one time they decide to go easy on a kid like this (in more dangerous places) could be the one situation where the child is genuinely dangerous and the outcome is tragic.

    Mind you, I find it hard to believe that this situation was entirely unforeseen (the kid IS diagnosed Aspie, they must have seen her stubbornness and raging before) and anyone with experience should have got the message - if the kid is getting upset, back off, leave her alone, she will calm down in time. Meanwhile if you feel it's needed, get the other kids quietly out of there and call the parents (assuming the school can't handle it on their own).

    Something that always gets my hackles up - when they describe a child like this as "acting out". What the H does that term mean, anyway? The only times I hear that term being used, is by someone who has already made a value judgement on WHY the child is 'misbehaving', and usually a judgement where they consider the child is attention-seeking, or choosing to be difficult purely out of cussedness. I hate the term "acting out" because it is so perjorative, so judgemental, so misleading. And it's so often used to give deliberate bias against the child in question.

    Ideas have changed considerably, on issues to do with child raising, child education and child discipline. It used to be the done thing to hold the child down, or to apply some sort of pressure or physical control, to a child mid-tantrum. But I beleive it's going out of favour. It should never have been IN favour unless FOR THAT CHILD it was already known to be appropriate and successful.

    So many times I read of similar stories, and when you go into it the facts indicate that some adult in a position of authority applied a hold or pressure, and got injured by the child as a result (and then had the hide to lay charges against the child!). They need to change this rule across the board in education departments and write this in large red letters, in every schoolroom where there are special needs kids - "DO NOT LAY HANDS ON A difficult child, ESPECIALLY A Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) difficult child. If you do, and you get injured - it's your fault."

    The way it's handled here - difficult child 3 was a classic case. He threw a dangerous tantrum in the school hall, was throwing chairs at people. But all they did was remove all other people (teachers and other students) from the hall, and called his class teacher (who was able to talk him down). His aide could also have calmed him down, so could the school counsellor and the school principal. And the reason for the rage, was he'd been given conflicting instructions by two different teachers. The school did a quick investigation, realised the problem was teacher-caused, and chose to not punish difficult child 3. They did report it to me, however.

    But there was no need to call police, no need to get me in there (although I would have gone there, like a shot). All sorted.

    If weapons had been involved (knives, at most) then police are supposed to be called and there is a mandatory suspension. Charges can be laid, it's at the discretion of the police. But for a child under the age of 10, even deliberately taking a dangerous knife to school (as distinct from a plastic cutlery knife) would still not get them charged. They cannot be charged here, under the age of 10, even for serious crimes. But they can still be suspended and parents can be in trouble if it can be shown tat their neglicence in any way contributed to the problem.

    Common sense should prevail.

  3. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    I think I am going to throw up. That poor kid. That poor MOM!
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    This made the paper because it's unusual. None of my kids have ever come close to being handcuffed in school. I resent the insinuation that this is done all the time in our schools or that it is accepted. We are all different. In your culture your kids drink alcohol or the authorities may take them away. In ours, we don't want our k ids to start early drinking,w hich can lead to alcoholism. Also, nobody threatens to take our children away simply because they are different. Please remember that an article in the paper is there because it is so rare. We have a large country. Things happen that aren't good. I'm sure I could find articles on Denmark's problems, but I chose not to do that. Why not talk about your kids? After all, this forum is not a political one. It's a support forum for parents who have children who are struggling. JMO
  5. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I agree with MWM. You seem to look for ways to criticize our culture. Things like this are RARE or they wouldn't be newsworthy.

    I will say that my bro lived in this area of Idaho and it is NOT very tolerant of differences such as autism or other mental health issues. Not very educated about them. but it is a very small, very sparsely populated part of our country.

    You really look hard to find ways to talk about how bad things are here. NONE of us have criticized your country, where kids are forced to drink, where if someone is different they are immediately suspected of being a terrorist. Lay off.
  6. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator

    That's enough please. In all fairness, we have had posts of news stories in the past. Let's not read anything into another's intentions.
  7. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Why involve the police? Where did this zero-tolorance strategy start?

    I don't know, but you can rest assured that between the mom's ire and the news coverage, it will change!

    Generally, when things like this happen, it is because school administrators are too bureaucratic and cannot think for themselves.
  8. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    In Rotsne's defence, I was the one who was pretty much saying, "That doesn't happen in our country." So get angry with me. I am sorry if I offended anyone, becuase there are many reasons why things go down different paths in different places. it is very complex. And we do have our own problems.

    It is important that this IS being discussed in the media because it IS something that is causing outrage for being so unreasonable. Let's hope that this sort of exposure (and resultant outrage) helps fix whatever it is that led to this happening, so it doesn't have to happen to other people.

    Terry, I think you hit the nail on the head - some school administrators are just too hooked on bureaucracy for its own sake, they don't see the personal picture at all and as a result a situation gets escalated to billy-oh and this sort of damage results.

    Let's just hope that such administrators never end up in the government in any really important position (in any country) - we will be at war in the blink of an eye!

    Last edited: Jan 15, 2009
  9. Janna

    Janna New Member

    Not to be the buzzkiller here for the U.S., but, D was hauled out, this year, dragged in handcuffs by the police, to a cop car, to the hospital.

    So, yes, it does happen.

    He was in class, and having some troubles. He had a TSS (Theraputic Support Staff aka worthless person) in the room with him. He began having troubles with the teacher, and when she wouldn't LISTEN to him he started to tantrum. Tantrum led to "time out" (another worthless intervention) which led to him crying.

    Crying led to TSS (person supposed to be SUPPORTIVE, again aka worthless person) LAUGHING (can you believe?) at Dylan's crying, leading Dylan to a rage.

    Leading to a call to 911, to the cops, to handcuffs......

    It's ridiculous. I should sue them. But, yes, it DOES happen. Here in good ole Pennsylvania.
  10. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    I do know. I can say.
    This is WHY I moved from THIS town. I do know these people.
    I know all of these people.
    Read the stinking comments at the bottom of the local paper.

    I know the local Police. They just got rid of the Main Sheriff and she was the only one who understood how things should be regarding Mental Illness.
    I lived in this town of 8000 people for 20 years. So I do have an idea.
    This is one of the School that left K sitting in her own urine, that lost K 2x, that yelled at her continually, made her come home sobbing continually. She missed so much School in Kindergarten because that place was horrible.
    Everyone up there knows how horrible the Schools are.
    You can delete or edit this.
    But i have seen how they treat people with Mental Illness, Autism or any other Disorder that you *can't see*.
    It makes me sick.
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2009
  11. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    All I can say is that I'm so glad you got K out of there. This is a shame.
  12. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    Well the fact that the *locals* who care are calling this poor kid "Mentally Deranged" "Flipping Psycho"
    Is enough for me...
    I know there are good people up there, but I lived with enough of the carpy comments about my kid and others that I can't imagine what this poor kid is going to go though.
    My step-cousin lives 45 minutes south of there and he went through heck trying to get help and doing something dumb at School... on the wrong medications, suicide attempt. Swat team, he is never going to live it down.
  13. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Crying led to TSS (person supposed to be SUPPORTIVE, again aka worthless person) LAUGHING (can you believe?) at Dylan's crying, leading Dylan to a rage.

    Leading to a call to 911, to the cops, to handcuffs......

    Wow. Suing would have been too good.
  14. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Arg, Totoro, a great lawsuit. But it takes so much energy, and all you want to do it get through the day. Sitting in her own urine? Sheesh.
  15. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    This story reminds me of the treatment my child recieved in his second school. The first princilple he had had was an excellant thinker and so well suited to the creative
    solutions that a trained and naturally insightful person brings to the needs of children.
    Whereas the second principle was a dud. ANd in that school culture was down right
    damaging for the students. It was someone who worked at the school who sought me out and described what the teachers were doing and how the students were leaarning to target my child by teacher example.
    I spent alot of time attempting to engage the teacher involved in the evidenced aproaches that are known to aide my childs learning needs. I sat with the districts
    special education director at my side and each and every simple and usefull meathod was rejected. The teacher was ridigidely indifferant to the simplest things and even refused to allow my child to use the corral in her classroom siting that to do so was "unfair" to the other students.
    Having spent the last twelve years sitting in iep and 504 meetings with a child who has an excellant ability to learn and who shows the results of the effort to
    educate the indifferant and lazy teachers who insist time after time that to exstend themselves to the provissions of IEP "is to much to do".
    At this time I can list quarter after quarter the samples where the principle and the teachers and the iep or 504 specialist simply did not comply to the federal law and merely do the simple thiings. ANd every time...up to yesterday, when I have AGAIn
    contacted and addressed the matter with the person who is employed to do thier part and has not I am told that "next quarter" they will .

    From my veiw point, dealling with a learner who acutually requires little effort on the part of the school to support his ability, the story of the autictic child who the school is so callously unprepared and has not implimented a base from which to provide the free and appproppriate education within even a six month period since the beginning of this school year which includes at least one person who does have the skill set to cope with this child in the situation depicted is a dramatic exsample of what is the past and current neglects that are daily lives of children with all levels of special learning support needs in school systems everywhere.

    WE tend to drape the neglect of many children into another catagory to sheild the relavance of untreated and undertreated disorders by school districts.

    While teachers on whole prefer to duck and cover rather than to stand up to the board of education and bury their employers in referal notices for the aids that are essential for them to do their jobs.

    Right now with the state economy in the red sea of debt the schools are holding
    "classtimes" with teachers who are protected from having a preparation for that class time by a contract that limits them to less than they are scheduled.
    At this school an iep student is by policy placed into a class schedualed to bill for the "special services" they are to recieve upon paper but in that time period in reality those services do not occur.

    Neglect of children in our culture is so pervasive that it is only the dramatic examples that raise ire.