A Brand New Tactic - ARRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by susiestar, Aug 25, 2010.

  1. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am sorry to sound so needy. I truly NEED some reassurances and support right now. I list some things gfgbro has done because Wiz mentioned them recently to me - stuff I didn't know he even knew. Thank you for reading what you can of this and for any replies. I am beginning to really dread my forays into CrazyTown.

    My aunt, M, is in town. I asked if there was a night/afternoon we could come over to visit. Mom has forgotten when she has an appointment, so that will have to be figured in.

    Otherwise they are planning dinner with gfgbro most nights so they can see my niece. Because spending time with the grandkids is SO extremely important to my aunt.

    Come on. Really??? Every freakin' night???

    My mom and aunt seem to be using my aunt's visit as a way to push contact with gfgbro. I am SOOOO not amused.

    M is one of my favorite people, in spite of her meddling. I will HATE not being able to see her, but I am totally willing to miss her if she insists that gfgbro be there.

    Game playing hoovers and I am NOT willing to give in - not when it will cause panic attacks in my kids.

    They are going to have to decide if it is worthwhile to NOT see my children during this visit. With all the emphasis on seeing the grandkids, and the fact that half of the grandkids live with me, I guess they have some thinking to do.

    Maybe they DON"T really value the grandkids the way they say they do. Time will tell.

    Wiz will not spend time with the adults if gfgbro is there. If he is home, he goes to his room or puts headphones on and says he has "work" to do on his laptop. He doesn't dislike gfgbro, he HATES him. He sees NO redeeming qualities in gfgbro and is extremely angry with gfgbro for the way gfgbro treats us, esp Jessie and I. Wiz is of the opinion that Jess and I esp have gone through more than enough with him that we deserve NO crud from anyone, esp someone we have done as much for as we have done for gfgbro. I was totally shocked when Wiz told me this, but he feels very strongly about it.

    I didn't know Wiz knew half of what we have done for gfgbro - given him $$ (not that he remembers it, says I forged the IOU that I never asked for), housed him and his stuff for up to 6 weeks at a time - time gfgbro didn't even help pay for food and he eats a TON, over a month of work planning his wedding and reception, the weeks I let my own kids mostly alone while I helped exSIL with her newborn as she was deep into postpartum depression/psychosis, the list is unending. Heck, I pretty much furnished an apartment right down to utensils and sheets for him at one point - even to providing decorations for Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, Bdays, etc...

    This is the list Wiz gave me - most of it I didn't even think he was aware of!!

    He also told me that gfgbro did some pretty awful stuff the few times he babysat the kids so that husband and I could have a date. From insisting that they drink beer (putting it in a baby bottle for Jess when she was a few months old and later for thank you, mostly for thank you because we made a HUGE deal out of discovering it after he did it for Jessie), to making them try copenhagen - putting it on sandwiches if they refused. Even to giving thank you 8 times the dose of benadryl that he was supposed to have for allergies as an infant - we had to take ALL the kids to the ER at children's after that - it cost us about $1500 and a GIANT lecture from the docs and social workers!

    There was also some comments about taking Wiz to a brothel because he needed to "learn" about sex from someone who was really knowledgeable and that is the best way to do it - Wiz was 12 at the time and after that he refused to go anywhere with gfgbro because he was afraid that he would be taken to a brothel and forced into this!!! At the time he was afraid to tell us about it because we didn't trust him because the lies he was known to tell.

    He didn't know that gfgbro had talked about this for years, saying that if he had a son or custody of a boy that he would take them to a ho for "lessons". He would ask about AIDS so he would be sure the boy wouldn't get it (of course that makes a lot of sense, NOT). Had he told us we would never have allowed bro near him, but Wiz did lie a LOT so he just refused to do anything with gfgbro.

    This is ALL stuff that according to my mom I should forget if I truly forgive gfgbro. Real forgiveness is NOT forgetting, it is moving on. If you truly repent you won't repeat the behavior, which, in my opinion, is necessary for real forgiveness to happen. I forgive gfgbro for this stuff, but I won't allow it to happen again, esp to my children.

    If that is somehow being vindictive, then so be it. I don't think gfgbro has repented, but that is not my problem as long as he doesn't come here. I am SURE I will be tested, but I won't fail my kids again by allowing contact with gfgbro - even if it means never seeing my aunt when she visits.

    Am I on the right track, forgiving him in my heart because he is sick, but having to cut contact because it is so scary and painful for my kids and myself? I don't FEEL vindictive, or grudge holding, and I truly pray that gfgbro can at some point see how wrong he is and get help. I do feel scared and anxious, but it seems like a reasonable way to feel. It also seems very irrespnsible to keep allowing him to contact my kids, which is why I don't allow it. Am I crazy? Am I wrong to insist on this?

    I keep getting messages that I am wrong/nuts/crazy/mean/vindictive/holding a grudge/and so much more. I don't feel that way. Counselors have urged me to cut contact with gfgbro for over 15 years - every therapist we have ever seen has said this if issues about gfgbro came up.
  2. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    I support you 100%. You can forgive someone for things they have done, but it would be foolish to forget. To 'forget' and give him a chance to do it again?!?!?? No way. Stay strong.
  3. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Thanks. I get so much pressure to believe that forgiveness requires forgetting and completely trusting the person again, while at the same time things I have done years ago are thrown at me as proof that I am terrible (even things that I did when I was 4 or 5!)

    It gets confusing to receive such bizarrely mixed messages.
  4. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    I posted the forgive/forget thing to KLMNO just last night...they are often confused, but are VERY different things.

    Remember so its not repeated; then forgive and move on, but forgive does not mean forget. Especially with a repeat offender.

    M may be a favorite aunt, but she is right in the middle of a manipulation game if seeing her requires you to be with gfgbro. Don't be manipulated.

    Invite her to dinner in town or ask that a particular night be set aside for you. If she doesn't abide, then SHE has made her choice.

    In time, I suspect she'll get past it and will see you without gfgbro. For now, this may be the price everyone pays, but its nothing compared to your brother.
  5. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    I don't think you're holding a grudge or being vindictive at all, Susie. You're protecting your kids and defending yourself. There's a significant difference.
  6. skeeter

    skeeter New Member

    I have forgiven people that may have harmed me or mine in the past.

    I will not forget and be put in the same position again.

    Two totally different things.
  7. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    It all reminds me of the old adage: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

    Words to live by, in my opinion.
  8. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    That's right- and as Shari touched on, I struggle with this sometimes, too. But still, I think it sometimes takes a little time even to forgive.

    The parallels between the dysfunction in our families amazes me even though some of the details play out differently. Remember though- that twisting of words and havbing double standards and pat answers that don't even fit the point you were discussing is all part of the dysfunction. And I agree about M having to make her own choices. This happened in my family as well and that is why I am estranged from all of them at this point. I used to blame myself but when I realized that they were still believing everything my mother said, going along with everything she wanted, and they all grew up in the same dysfunction but have not done anything to be aware of it much less change it, I now think it's probably the only thing that can be expected. They don't want to be torn between my mother and me, understably, so I don't push it and just quit contacting them. And they did the same.
  9. trinityroyal

    trinityroyal Well-Known Member

    Susie, you're not being unreasonable at all. You're doing the right thing to protect your children and yourself, and I'm very proud of you for taking such a strong stand on this.
    Your gfgbro has done you a lot of harm over the years, and your children are scared of him and want nothing to do with him. All very good reasons to steer clear in my view. Your family has never seen you take such a strong stand before, and they probably think that if they step up the pressure you'll come around. But you need to do what 's right for you. The fact that you don't feel hatred or grudging is very telling, as is the fact that you feel fear. Your instincts are telling you exactly what you need to do, and you're listening to them. Keep that thought in your head, along with the thought that you will never let your gfgbro harm you or your family.