a fight in the making

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Ktllc, Nov 21, 2011.

  1. Ktllc

    Ktllc New Member

    Today was the last draw.
    A little boy in V's class is supposed to be V's friend (only friend..). A few thing did not add up, but I never really worried about it. V would tell me, they are friends and I was satisfied with that. The little boy came a couple times at our house for playdates, but they both seemed to play next to one another, not with one another. Oh well...
    Then, today, as I pick up V after Lunch, the little boy says a big cheerful "bye dummy!". V does not react but I do! I tell the little boy it is not appropriate to talk like that, ended calling him on it a few times and he finally went "sorry!" with a major attitude. We walked out of the class room and then explained to V what happened. He had no clue this little boy was not supposed to talk to him like that. sigh...
    He then goes "is it mean to call someone bonehead", I ask him why and he explains that the same little boy calls him "bonehead" a lot. I digg a little more and V tells me that he is also being called "poopy". GRRRRRRR
    Of course, I explained that it was not nice and that no one was allowed to call him names.
    After everything, all my warning on V's lack of social skills I decided to call the director of the center. She had the nerves to tell me that there is nothing the teachers can do if V does not tell them or if they did not hear!!! What???? Isn't it their jobs to be extremely vigilant, special with socially awkward kids??? I ended the conversation by saying that the teachers had been warned/coached about the situation and that it was most definitely not V's responsibility to handle complex social issues. That was simply unacceptable.
    I then e-mailed the region director in order to file a formal complaint about our local center (today was the last of MANY issues).
    They want to meet with me tomorrow and told me "there won't be any reprecautions" to what i laughed and joyfully said "I sure hope not".
    Any advice for tomorrow? I do not write off the option of just keeping V with me at home for the rest of the year. Negative reinforcement is not what he needs.( Kindergarten is next year.)
  2. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    I think this is a difficult one, ktllc. I don't know what the general picture is in the US, but I can tell you (as you may already know :)) that in this part of France, at any rate, little boys in particular of our sons' ages seem to delight in giving each other good-humoured insults that sound really crass to the outsider... You are understandably sensitive about it because of V's difficulties. Is it possible, though, that the other boy was not targeting V in any way? At least V was not upset by it... I do appreciate that of course you do not want him to pick up this kind of language as acceptable (it does happen though).
    I may be under-reacting. What do you think? What is your concern in this situation?
  3. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    I don't know... I think some of the insults are "normal". I guess it really depends on whether V actually believes them.

    I have issues with "dummy", but not "bonehead". Interesting, no?
  4. Ktllc

    Ktllc New Member

    I am not outraged by the little boy's vocabulary. I am outraged that it is a daily occurence and nobody picked up on it or put me in the loop.
    I'm annoyed by the fact that nobody redirects V when he is being socially inappropriate (asks a MILLION times: are you my friend? to the point the other kid(s) don't want to be with him per V's say).
    I am upset not to have any feedback on how there are helping V overcome his issues. We are supposed to have whole plan to learn social skills, but every time I ask questions, all I get "he's doing better". Just a standard hollow answer.
    The list is so long, today is just the last draw.
    The kind of incident that confirms that they just nodd but actually don't try to implement anything.
    And I guess what really ticked me off is that V doesn't really "hear" when there is a lot of commotion (like a classroom), and I felt it is too easy to target poor little V.
    Really woke up Mama Bear. :)
  5. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    I'd have spent a day or two observing in the class and developed my own opinion on the whole culture and approach of the other kids and so on...

    We get used to dealing with our difficult children, to the point that sometimes we don't know what "normal" is.
  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Well, I'm the odd man/woman out again. It sounds to me like this kid was as socially clueless as your son if he called your son a "dummy" right in front of you. Most kids know better. Also sounds to me like your son, if he does not "get" that being called names is socially inappropriate, may well be on the Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) spectrum, diagnosis or not. My son IS on the spectrum and if he is called a name he knows it's not appropriate and he always knew. However, there IS the possibility that he was goofing around. If so, I would think he'd do it with a grin, good-naturedly or laughing. What do you think his tone was like? Like the others said, there is a lot of horsing around among kids.

    Now about the teachers: Does your son have an IEP? If not, don't expect them to do anything unless it is in their line of sight or sound. However, it's not clear to me if your son is in a regular school or some sort of special school for children with special needs. If he is in a specialized school then indeed it was inappropriate for the staff not to pay attention to your concerns.

    Please keep us posted.
  7. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    I know this feeling exactly... This is Jett. And in that case... If they are supposed to be helping him... You're right to be outraged.
  8. Ktllc

    Ktllc New Member

    He does not have an IEP (as of why is a whole different thread...), but Head Start is supposed to be helping him (the whole reason he is in Head Start and not private preschool). The disability specialist is wonderful but she is not in the center. At the end of the day, the teachers are the one who need to implement the strategies. I thought of coming with a list of things that should be in place (per our last conference between teachers, disability specialist and myself):-Visual cues
    -Following through by making V repeat
    -take him by the hand and work towards inclusion in groupactivities
    -work on social skills in very small groups at first (V andone other child), preferably in a quiet area. A good activity would becoloring/art and sharing same supply and have teacher closely monitor and guideVictor.
    -Use a whole body experience for learning alphabet(Zoophonics or similar)
    -get an understanding as of why V does not seem to maintainfriendship and guide him towards appropriate social behavior (“are you myfriend” “what’s your name” “can we play”)
    -keep an eye on signs of overstimulation, withdrawing,distress
    - don’t expect for him to just “get it”, don’t hesitate toexplain the obvious.
    -sharing information

    I guess I will find out tomorrow if there is any chance the team will work with V or if we are all making great plans with no intention of following through.

  9. svengandhi

    svengandhi Well-Known Member

    I have 4 sons and have been around lots of little boys over the years. At pre-k age, they often refer to each other as things like "poopy." The normal reaction is to laugh and say "No, YOU'RE poopy!" My oldest son is mildly Aspie and it just went totally over his head when people were teasing him, it sounds like this might have happened with V as well. I also agree with MWM that the boy who used those words is also not socially appropriate. Perhaps he also has some type of plan in place for his behaviors.

    Maybe the teachers could do a general teaching unit on nice words vs. mean words and have the kids go around in a circle saying nice words. If a kid says a mean word, the teacher should say that's not a nice word, can anyone think of a nice word to say instead and maybe call on V to see if he is getting the lesson. I would suggest something like that at my meeting.
  10. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Okay, I understand more now. I hadn't realised or had forgotten, I'm afraid, that there was supposed to be a plan in place specifically to help V at the school. Let us know how you get on today?
    PS - It occurred to me as I was hanging out the washing just now (always seem to get struck by inspiration while doing the chores :)) that maybe the other kids are actually calling V these names and that is where his friend gets it from... I hope and trust that that is not what is going on but obviously if it is, it is worrying. I initially thought this was no big deal. I might be wrong. Hope I'm not.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
  11. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    the whole "there won't be repercussions" thing blows my mind!!! in my opinion it is a THREAT, that with-o their "assurance" there would be, and that you should have been wary of repercussions, but they will be "nice" and not inflict any this time!!!

    WTH is the problem wtih these people?

    These people are in need of some serious redirection -from their supervisors! I hope you can push them to do what they are supposed to
  12. Ktllc

    Ktllc New Member

    I think the meeting went quite well. The regional director agreed that there are a lot of dysfunctions within the center.
    She even said that they have the resources to help kids like V, but those ressources are simply rendered useless if the teachers don't utilize them! I could not agree more with that statement.
    She mentioned more teacher training.
    She also was worried by the fact that the center's staff did not help me get connected with resources when I went to them and begged for help. She said "how can we expect offering help to parents that are in denial of their kids' issues when we can't even help an involved parent".
    I was quite kind about the disability specialist (who I felt was competent and caring) but the director was not so much: she said that the disability specialist's job is to create strategies AND to make sure the teachers actually implement them by coming to the center and observing. She never came to the center to do so...
    I believe this center's problems are very deep and I'm not sure the changes will be fast enough to benefit V. But I can only hope that, in the future, other kids won't have to share the our bad experience.
    And who knows, V still has 6 months in this preschool... maybe his needs will be met, maybe they will be, indeed, able to reach him. (my poor little V still does not understand what happens during circle time... he calls that "doing art" sigh).
  13. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Ktllc...head start is only as good as its people. From what I have seen, they have gone way down from 20 years ago. Back when Cory went to head start it was amazing. They worked with him in awesome ways. When Keyana was in it, it was nothing. They didnt even teach her the alphabet and she was a mild mannered kid. I can say they taught the kids to throw away paper plates and plastic forks quite well!

    Thinking about that potty talk...yeah and no. If the two kids are playing and having fun together they may be saying it to each other but if an adult comes in they normally stop and may giggle and cover their mouths like they got caught doing something naughty. My middle granddaughter really hurts my oldest granddaughters feelings because she does this stuff to her. H will say mean stuff to K such as K is a bad word and never wants to be her friend. Well, enough times of that and K has had it. H doesnt have good social skills and K does.
  14. Ktllc

    Ktllc New Member

  15. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Do you get any help from an area mental health agency because he may qualify for a tech...or whatever they call them now. I think its now called a para-professional. Cory had one for years. Another thing...option if you will...is what is known as day treatment. For little kids V's age, normally they go for 2 hours or so then return to Head Start. When Cory was in Head Start, he was doing both Day Treatment and HS. I took him to DT in the morning then HS picked him up from DT and brought him home in the afternoon. He went to DT from 8:30 - 11 then onto HS until he came home around 3:30 or so. (do remember I'm thinking back 21 years!)
  16. svengandhi

    svengandhi Well-Known Member

    Actually, Janet had a great idea. My current PC15 had a SEIT (Special education itinerant teacher) when he was in nursery and pre-k. Her job was to attend nursery school with him and help him with his social skills. Ironically, he is the son with the best social skills.

    We got the SEIT only because I scheduled his evaluation and difficult child's on the same day. I was in my 38th week with youngest boy so I was already on leave and H went with me. easy child was 2 years, 9 months and difficult child was 4 1/2 at the time. easy child wanted to be carried AND to be with me. I could not carry him so H carried him and I took difficult child, who walked with me. easy child acted out so much (our evaluation was actually ONLY for speech) that they decided he needed the SEIT! He has never acted out the same before or after. As a footnote, the baby was born 8 hours after the evaluations were done. The conclusion was that the SEIT wound up identifying another boy in easy child's class who she felt needed the services more than easy child and asked the teacher to talk to that mom about setting up an evaluation and that kid wound up with services as well. My son didn't need the SEIT anymore at the 6 month evaluation and she went to the classmate instead.

    You might want to see if you can this type of educator assigned to V.
  17. Ktllc

    Ktllc New Member

    Thank you ladys! I did not even know there were such services out there. Within the next month or so, V will go for a psycho-educational evaluation because the devel. pediatrician. thinks there is more going on than sensory processing disorder (SPD). It will be a good time to mention those services and see how they would apply to V. I assume it will be pending upon the final diagnosis. (final... yeah right. I must not kid myself!)
  18. soapbox

    soapbox Member

    Those two go together. in my opinion... what you are seeing in behavior is an overwhelmed kid. Its not that he isn't ready intellectually - its that a combo of disabilities puts him behind the 8-ball ALL THE TIME.

    If its this bad now - school will be a nightmare. Start pushing buttons, trying various approaches... so that by the time he's in K or 1, you at least have some things in place.

    Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) (not Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD) - which usually manifests in language issues) can include things like auditory figure ground - huge difficulties hearing/processing language in the presence of backbround noise. And classrooms are about the noisiest environments you can imagine... not in decibels, but in constant, irritating, "white" noise... paper rustling! Add... dropped pencils, the sharpener, the whispers, binder rings, etc........... OUCH.

    Keep in mind that in terms of behavior, ADHD and Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) can look very much alike. If they start pushing for an ADHD diagnosis at this age, push back and make them prove it is NOT something like Auditory Processing Disorders (APD)...
    in my opinion... you can't really diagnosis either one well until at least age 5, often not until 6 or 7... but chances are just as high either way. I'd be trying Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) interventions now, rather than trying ADHD medications now...
  19. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Well, it sounds like the dir is on board and may actually do something, now that you have informed her. I definitely hear your frustration! Especially this part: "... every time I ask questions, all I get "he's doing better". Just a standard hollow answer."
    You've gotten some great feedback here. I just wanted to send a hug.
  20. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Soapbox...you certainly sound like you and insane should get together and talk! You have much in common. One thing though, those diagnosis's dont really carry a whole lot of weight in the states yet. We have to use the diagnosis's that the schools use and understand. Doctors have certain codes that they use for insurance billing and those are the same ones that will come through on the evaluations they send to the schools. We cant just give magical names to things and have people work with our kids. Most people dont even understand us when we talk about executive functions. Their eyes go blank and glaze over.