...A little help... :-(

[witchiewoman71]

Hello. I'm new.
I have been all over the net looking and reading. I have read numerous books, I have even spoken to several residential treatment facilities..I just feel so frustrated and so lost. My difficult child is 14, soon to be 15 and is my oldest of 3. She was diagnosed with ADHD when she was 10. The ODD symptoms surfaced slowly at first, now they are getting worse and worse. She failed 8th grade and had to do Summer school. She is failing 9th grade now. Her GPA is practically nonexistent. She refuses to do homework, or pretty much anything else that my husband, me, or her teachers ask her to do. She has no issues with learning, she is very intelligent, just doesn't care. Chores have been just that---a chore--to get her to do. She talks to me and my husband like we are trash. She called her Algebra teacher a d*ck a few weeks ago and stormed out of class. I just don't know what to do with her. She pushes my buttons on purpose. My other 2 children who are 8 and 2 see this type of thing daily. The tension in my house is ridiculous. I work full time and so does my husband, we leave work and come home to defiance, mouthiness, and nastiness every day. It makes you want to keep driving past the house, and right on and on and never look back. I love my difficult child, and all of my children but I'm just at a loss...I feel inadequate, exhausted, stressed, angry...I could go on and on.

My 8 year old son is a difficult child as well; however he is a very different child. He's on ADHD medication and it seems to work beautifully for him. My oldest is a different story. Every medication that she has been on she has for one, refused to take, and when I make her, she just pockets it and hides it in her room. It's like a power trip for her. We've been back and forth to different therapists...most of the time I stop going because my daughter is so manipulative I find myself sitting in the office having to defend my parenting to these people. You think they would know since she has ODD how she works...but it always ends up the same. She whines about how mean I am, and I explain what happened and then after a while I end up not taking her because it is doing absolutely no good. It seems like just a forum for her to complain what horrible parents she has.

We've tried taking things away, grounding, etc. Consequences don't work for someone who doesn't care about rules or respect. She's more than happy to sit in the house and not go anywhere. Here she can drive us crazy. I feel like the rest of the family is actually being punished instead of her.

I just feel horrible...I love her with all of my heart. I'm heart sick. I miss my girl. I want my happy back.

 

[HaoZi]

Keep searching for therapists who have experience with kids like her. Is she medicated? Has she had a full evaluation? There may be more going on. Which books have you read? Has she exhibited violence or is it purely verbal and passive aggressive? Have there been any traumas in her life you know of that could have started this ball rolling (or any suspected?).

 

[JJJ]

(((((Hugs))) Some tdocs do just make the problem worse. Some can help. You might want to look for one that specializes in personality disorders (I know your daughter hasnt been diagnosis with a pd but those tdocs are much more able to see past the koi that our children can dish out.)

Have you looked into a summer program for troubled teens? If you can afford it or your insurance will cover it, it will give the other 4 of you a break from her chaos and it may even help her get better.

How is the school helping? Does she have an IEP?

 

[BusynMember]

Please don't blame yourself. You have a difficult child and it's not your fault. Some seem to be born that way...I am convinced there is a hereditary factor (and many professionals agree). I'm not sure a therapist will help her if she isn't willing to be helped, but I wouldn't stop trying.

Is it possible she is dabbling in recreational drug use or drinking? Kids are very good at hiding this. Has she changed her friends?

ODD is usually a term for younger kids. When they are teens, the defiance just seems to get worse and we get to see what is causing the ODD in the first place...don't give up! And don't blame yourself.

 

[AnnieO]

I feel like the rest of the family is actually being punished instead of her.

Hi witchie! Welcome... I know exactly how you feel. I adore my Onyxx... But... I'm not thrilled about being on house arrest when she is.

Since others have asked the questions I was going to... I'll just send along some hugs...

 

[KTMom91]

I remember those days...welcome, witchie.

 

[exhausted]

Welcome first of all. You'll find a lot of support here, I know I sure have in the last few months. My difficult child is 16 now and we have similar issues. We have been down the therapy path, the Residential Treatment Facility (RTF) path and now day treatment with a therapeutic foster home. She was killing our family and running all the time. She was diagnosed with ADHD first then ODD, then finially we figured out she was abused repeatedly by a cousin and found out she has PTSD from the trauma.There are signs that a personality disorder is forming. She too is bright but blew off 8th grade-she entered the Residential Treatment Facility (RTF) in May of 8th grade and remained untill the beginning of 10th grade, which she also blew off until Dec. when we finially were able to have her placed by the state. She continues to not buy into therapy. I always start with new therapists by letting them know that she villafies us and blames us for everything. I also let them know all we have done and our willingness to do what it takes. I wouldn't waste time with anyone who doesn't get that. At the beginning of therapy they have to listen and form a relationship with your child- but they should know better than to take away your authority in front of your daughter. I agree that those who know personality disorders are the best.Medication compliance is tough. We made her take them in front of us and show her mouth, however she had been trained to do this by the staff at the Residential Treatment Facility (RTF)-not sure if we could have done it on our own. I know the "drive-by" feeling as well. You need a second wind to take on your difficult child and sometimes we just don't have it. Following through with consequences and rewards takes hard work-and it sure is hard to do when you don't see results. We have been told this is a hallmark of personality disorder. Keep reading the posts-I learn a lot. Take care of your self. And pick the big battles. Hugs to you!

 

[witchiewoman71]

Haozi,
I will keep trying. The last one was supposed to be the best in the area...she refused to see us any longer because I forgot about an appointment and did not show. I even emailed her and asked her to reconsider. I have to keep things straight for 5 people, sometimes things are going to get missed. My husband does the best he can, but he has ADHD as well so his memory is not the best. Quite frankly, I think she was just looking for an excuse not to see us any longer. I was open and honest with her during our last meeting and told her I did not think anything we had implemented so far had worked. I do not think there had been any traumas. My daughter has very low self esteem, there for at time she was cutting also. I do not think she is doing that any longer...at least I pray she is not!

 

[witchiewoman71]

JJJ,

School doesnt help because they say she has not put forth any effort, so they dont know what to do to assist her They have nothing to assess I guess I could see their point. She just sits in class and takes up space most of the time. I do have an appointment with her Guidance Counselor in June after the school year is over to try to get a game plan together for her. I have looked into the summer thing, but its hard to know who is reputable and who isnt. Ive looked into Residential Treatment Facility (RTF), but they want thousands! Like college tuition type of money, and I cant be sure it will do anything for her. One place I looked into the other day left a message on my machine and my difficult child heard it. Guess I wont be going with THEM. I really think she would take off if she thought we were going to send her somewhere. I have looked into some wilderness programs for the summer, since they will be out of school soon...definitely could use a break...all of us could. Money wise, I am not sure how we would afford it. I dont want to just put her somewhere to put her there, you know?

 

[witchiewoman71]

exhaustedinutah,
So happy to know that drive by feeling is not just me. I feel awful even thinking that way. I feel like Im the mom, I should not be so impatient and so frustrated. Its my job to be patient. Unfortunately, patience lately has not been my strong suit. I cannot help thinking why cant you just listen to what we say? If you would just stop running your mouth, things would not escalate like they do. I know she has impulse control issues, and I know the ODD makes her want to annoy me on purpose because somehow she thinks its funny. If I could get her to take medications, it would be better. I honestly have not had her on anything for months because she hides the pills in her mouth and then stashes them in her room. I worry that my 2 year old will find them and put them in her mouth and swallow. I am always up late because its the time I get to unwind with no fighting. I know they say that you do not have to attend every argument you are invited to, but I dont know what to do. Do I just allow her to say something nasty and not tell her to stop? Isnt that like letting her get away with it? My husband and I are both ex military, so we cannot even fathom the idea that a child of ours would disobey and talk back and do the things she does. We are very authoritarian, do as I say, type of parents. If we say, get a shower, it means get a shower, it doesnt mean turn it into a debate about why should you have to! Some would probably say we are strict, but I am trying to raise respectful children that respect authority and their elders.

I can honestly say, just reading the posts has helped me tremendously. Just having some support and people to talk to feels so much better. I sometimes sit and cry because I feel like no one understands what I go through. My husband seems to handle it better than I do. At least he doesnt lose it like I do. I dont want my other kids to suffer any more. Ive often said that if I could kick her out and now she would be ok, she would be out of here. I have been tempted to let her off grounding just to get her out of her and give us a break, but I dont want to be inconsistent. It is like a catch 22.

Thank you so much and thanks for the hugs. Definitely could use those!!

 

[witchiewoman71]

I keep telling myself that difficult child will be 18 in a little over 3 years...I know it does not change her diagnoses, but it helps me get through each day. At least that way she can either have a college acceptance or a job. Either way, she will not be here driving me crazy forever.

 

[witchiewoman71]

Thank you, Stepto2. I appreciate it.

 

[witchiewoman71]

Thanks, Midwest.
I have caught her at least once under the influence of Pot, but only that one time. Trust me, I'm not naive, I know if I caught her she probably hasn't stopped. I smoke and she has stolen cigarettes from me, and from my Mother. (My parents live right next door...but that's a whole nother story for another time..) I have to lock my bedroom when I leave for work because she has gone into my room and taken medications from my bathroom. I work as a finance advisor, but worked in the medical field most of my adult life before this. I still have my EMT license, and I know what to look for as far as drug reactions in the eyes, etc. Seems like lately she has been clean. I also test her randomly. I think if she were given the opportunity she would use again. I'm hoping we all can get past my difficult children childhood unscathed. To hear her tell it though, we are mean, rotten parents and abuse her because we make her do chores and contribute around here...that's if she decides to do them. Thanks for the pep talk. I definitely needed it.

 

[nvts]

Hi! Welcome to the crowd! Has anyone considered NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD))? She was at just about the right age when the grades started plummeting and the behavior started getting worse. You could have her tested for that fairly quickly and see what can be done. There could be some serious problems growing from the self=esteem that follows this whole disorder. She may have been able to fake it with being in class and absorbing everything verbally, but now that the work is harder, it could be that she's not able to continue with the same success.

Just a thought!

Beth

 

[tiredmamax3]

Hi Witchie, I absolutely had to reply to this thread! Your story is my story to the T.... I mean exactly from every aspect. We are military so i completely understand the do as I say, not when you feel like it, but NOW point of view. My 14 difficult child was 1st said to have ADHD . So for the past 8 years we move around alot and find new docs, and they say same thing. I kept telling them, no there is something else going oh here... No ONE listened ! Finally after 1st psychiatric hospitalization, I demanded a neuro-psychiatric evaluation , and finally they hit the nail on the head. Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified,ADHD,ODD,Bi-Polar. My son has benn hospitalized 4 times within the past 10 months and we are awaiting word on acceptance into a Residential Treatment Center (RTC) placement. We feel like we have no other choice. We have other kids and our lives and their lives have been turned upside down and we are tired of walking on eggshells to get through the day without dealing with difficult child raging fits. He refuses to take his medications as well. We cannot leave him alone at all, which is hard bc at 14 I should be able trust him, but nope ! I completely understand the frustrations and realize sometimes i just have to let him say whatever and ignore it, bc i dont have the strength to keep cycle going .
:Grouphug:

 

[witchiewoman71]

nvts,
Thank you for the suggestion. I will definitely read up on that. I had never heard of nonverbal learning disorder before. She was tested for the ADHD when she was 10. They also did an IQ test. Turns out she is very intelligent, just doesn't apply herself.

 

[witchiewoman71]

Tonight was crazy. My difficult child has been doing the dishes (if you can call it that) since she was 10. Every day since the first day I showed her, she has to be sent back in 3 or 4 times to complete the task properly. She says I am too picky. I say I have a standard of clean that I want followed. Her room...I have pretty much given up on that battle. She told me she can never do anything good enough for me. I always find fault. Honestly, I am not one for nitpicking. I want things done properly the first time. She will do it half butted and then get angry when I ask her to backtrack and do it properly. Every night the dishes chore is infuriating. She will stand there and talk to us and it ends up taking her over an hour to do, and then when I try to redirect her to the task at hand, she gets mouthy and disrespectful. I keep telling her I'm more than happy to talk to her when chores are done, but until then she needs to concenrate on what she is doing. She still talks to us.

I love my daughter, but definitey don' like her right now. So tired of all the drama she causes in my home.

 

[AnnieO]

...Onyxx used to love doing dishes. Now? It's all I can do to get her to do them. Jett won't until he is reminded, and then does a terrible job on the handwash items.

husband and I finally sat them both down and told them... Look, I don't like doing the dishes either, but I think you are both old enough to take responsibility. So here's how it works from now on. Don't do them at all? No allowance. Have to be reminded? Half allowance. Have to be reminded more than once? Back to none. Do it wrong or lazy? Have to redo them till I'm happy. (Still doesn't get them done, but I haven't paid out allowance in over a year... Hee hee hee)

We have a list of chores they are supposed to do, that alternate weeks - litter box, every other day; dishes every weekday (husband and I do weekends and special things like the food processor, since it's not used much); pick up their stuff around the house; bathroom cleaning once a week; help out when asked. They have it EASY! I had a LOT more when I was a kid. But... They don't think they should HAVE to help. Well... When they're out on their own... It will be their problem. I just won't visit their first couple of apartments, so I don't see.

Can she be redirected to talking WHILE she does the dishes? Or... How about she washes, you dry... Make it teamwork. I've noticed mine do things a LOT more readily when I ask... "Can you help me with...?"

Just a thought.

 

[DaisyFace]

Witchie--

In my household, I decided that the stress I was experiencing each night trying to get difficult child to do the dishes was WAAAAYYY more of a pain-in-the-rear than actually doint the dishes. So I kicked difficult child out of the kitchen - and now the dishes are clean, disinfected, sparkly, non-broken and carefully placed in the cupboards where they belong - PLUS I am more relaxed.

Does this mean difficult child somehow "got away" with not doing chores? Well, no....

I decided that if difficult child cannot handle the responsibilities (such as washing dishes) of a nearly-sixteen year old - then she does not get the priviledges of a nearly-sixteen year old either. She has no cell phone, no computer priviledges, no tv in her room, she is not a member of any team or club, I don't drive her here and there etc. I've decided that I am not willing to pay or provide any of those things at her current level of effort around here. So I do the dishes and save my money and my time to spend as I see fit.

If she decides that she indeed wants any of those things? She can earn them.

Meanwhile, her lack of a "life" is not my problem.

 

[exhausted]

Ok- what I would give if my difficult child would stand doing the dishes and talking to me! To heck with a good job. I would stand right next to her and dry( and maybe send a dish back for a rewash) if she was talking to us (this opposed to arguing, telling us what we are doing wrong, or the silent treatment). I might even dirty some extra dishes to keep her there longer. It's all perspective. Is there any way to enjoy the talking and expedite things by working with her? Oh man I do know the chore thing is painful.