A longer school day and school on Saturday??? Anyone hear about this?

svengandhi

Well-Known Member
I would be in favor of a longer school day IF there was no homework given. Frankly, my kids get home by 3:30 and do nothing until I get home between 6 and 7 and then I have to do the HW with them. I'd rather have them in school till 5 or so and then come home and have a nice dinner and relax with them. Long term projects would be OK because they do need to learn how to budget time.

As for Saturday, it won't happen where I live - too many Jewish people like myself would have a fit. I'd send my kids on Sunday but then the Christians would get upset.

If school was an hour and a half longer every day, they probably wouldn't need to shorten summer vacation but I would like to see enrichment classes available so kids could get ahead. I have always found it unfair that only not so good students get the benefits of summer school.
 

DazedandConfused

Well-Known Member
I work at a district that has 15 elementary schools. One is multi-track year round because of crowding. Four are "E" track. These were schools that were formally multi-track but when a new school was opened to relieve that crowding they went to "E" track (as opposed to A, B, C, and D track for multi-track). This was done in case enrollment were to suddenly increase they could easily shift back to multi-track. With "E" track school starts first of August thru September, and October with November off. Then, three more months and March off. Then three more months and July off. Everyone I know that works it-loves it! The parents and students like it too. I have to tell you, when May comes around, I'm hanging on for dear life some days.

The Sup. of the district wants ALL the elementary and middle schools to go on E track. High schools are out because of sport seasons. But, when it was put before parents, the few that protested, protested LOUD. So, the district backed off. The subject has come up again because a brand new school opened to relieve the crowding at the school I work at and they are going E track.

However, here in Cal we have been hit so hard by budget cuts I don't know what is going to happen. Air conditioning is an issue, but not a huge issue. Because the district I work at has a large enrollment of ELL students, and research has shown year round school improves achievement for ELLs; that may override any money concerns. Who knows though?

I do know this, by the end of the day, the students are DONE; especially the little ones. What concerns me is that many times the people making decisions like longer school days have never worked in a classroom for a reasonable length of time. I don't care what "research" says, I say get your butt in a classroom. Better yet, several classrooms in various parts of the country and in different socioeconomic communities, for several months, to get sense of what it might be like to lengthen the school day.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
OUr schools here offer enrichment classes for fast students or those interested in specific areas. Maybe it's different all over t he country, which is how the US works. And I am pretty liberal, but that I don't want to change.
 

Marguerite

Active Member
MWM, thanks for the info.

I mentioned school start/finish times, because travel makes a big difference to this, it's a very individual thing. For example in primary school, we drove the kids to and from school plus they went to after school care, because home was so far away. It was an hour's travel at least, each way. But they had a friend who literally lived across the street from the school. She could dash out the door as the school bell went, and still be in class on time! After school she could be home in two minutes.

When our kids were in high school, they had to leave home before 7 am (which in winter is before sunrise) to catch the boat. We don't have a high school in our village. The kids caught the boat, then a train, then walked - getting to school at about 8 am, but the later boat would get them to school too late.
After school they simply couldn't get to the boat for the usual after-school ferry which got into the village at 4 pm. So they had to catch the next boat, getting in at 5 pm. In winter, after dark.

The reason our schools have lined up their holidays with uni holidays (in broad at least) is so school staff can get access to in-service courses which are often held in uni vacation. Also, there are conferences which take advantage of the empty uni lecture halls and empty residential colleges (for accommodation of visiting conference attendees). Also increasingly, our senior high school courses are merging into tertiary institutions so a student can be studying at school then have timetabled college courses which are also included in their school timetable. Example - a friend of easy child 2/difficult child 2's was studying a preliminary Engineering course while working towards her HSC. After lunch on Tuesdays when easy child 2/difficult child 2 had her Textiles & Design class at school, her friend would walk next door to the college there and do her Engineering class. It was possible because the college timetable and the public school timetable were designed to mesh together. Our TAFES (College of Technical and Further Education) have the same terms and holidays as school.
We're hoping to do this next year for difficult child 3 - a computing course, 6 hours a week, fitted in around his school timetable.

I used to work at the university as well as having kids at school. I also helped set up teacher in-service courses. husband has done the same (also uni employee). He's had school Science teachers take advantage of school holidays coinciding with undergrad-free laboratories during the uni break, so they can do a refresher course.

There can be very useful reasons for having this level of coordination.

The 2-3 week holidays between the terms - these used to be only one week, in some cases. Definitely too short. And our summer holidays used to be much longer than they are now, so our kids would be driving us up the walls by the end of summer holidays. By taking some of the free time from the summer holidays and spreading it around the school year, it seems to have made it a much happier arrangement. The kids don't spend any more time at school overall, it's just organised more effectively, more balanced.

Private schools here have more holidays overall, several weeks a year more. There is some variation on how much, the variation is between different schools. And there may be a few private schools which have Saturday classes, but I don't know of any. I just don't think it would work.

I suspect that what is likely to happen in the US, if anything, will be more along the lines of slightly shortening the summer holidays but using the time to add to mid-school-year holidays. It would simply be too expensive as well as too unpopular, to do anything more. I would hope they make it a matter of choice, too.

But it's more likely that they want to get a feel for what people will accept. And using schools as child-minding facilities will be low on the list of reasons.

Marg
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Marg. A BOAT TO SCHOOL???? :D:tongue:


Ok, well, our teacher conferences are pretty much in-district. If there are state conferences then, yes, school is out, but they schedule them on the fly, year to year (remember, we have fifty states). No way would all the teachers flock to one state for an in-service.

School starts before the sun comes up here too in winter (remember Wisconsin is the Frozen Tundra), but the bus picks up kids who live more than a mile away. Otherwise, basically parents drive when it's dark. It's 6:15 am here and it's dark!!! Kids will be off in less than an hour.

If my daughter stays at school late, which happens often, she goes next door to the town library. Very nice location. I just call her on her cell when I get there and she comes out. There is also after school care for kids.

I think that if a change passes it would have A LOT to do with child care. Remember, we PAY for childcare here. There is no free child care. And it's a fortune. My son and daughter-in-law (of whom I referred many times) can barely make t he mortgage with child care so high. The only way you can get help is if you are poor and then it only lasts a year. So child care is a big deal here.

Since I don't work outside the home, and always worked at night when I did work to avoid child care at all, this doesn't apply to us. I don't like leaving teens alone after school, but they aren't. So for us I'd rather just keep things as they are. L. goes to summer school. He has no choice. It's more of a fun thing than heavy academics, but there are academics and he is stimulated. I feel his social needs are crucial and he gets that at summer school. Daughter needs the time off. School is hard for her and she needs to veg out.Too much school makes her irritable and weepy and I understand. I HATED SCHOOL. I think I would have dropped out if there had been year round school.

At any rate, this is so controversial here that, much like healthcare (don't even get me started on how angry I am that they aren't pushing through a public option NOW), I doubt it will go anywhere.

I'm so angry about healthcare, by the way, that if we don't get real reform, I will no longer vote at all. There's no party to vote for anymore for me. I feel betrayed. May as well ignore the news (which I do because it just gets me mad :tongue:) and not listen to our lying leaders.

;)
 

Marguerite

Active Member
While Aussie child care is now subsidised, it is still very expensive and the subsidy is income-related. You need to be working full-time to qualify, but te means test means that the subsidy is minimal if you work full-time.

Back when I was working full-time with three kids in child care, half my income paid the child care bill, the other half paid the mortgage. There was absolutely nothing left of my income to live on; we lived on husband's income, it paid all the other bills including food, utilities, transport, car payments etc.

Our health system is good but we still have private insurance available to beef it up above the bare minimum. I really hope you can get some improvements in health care.

Just a clarification - we don't consider ourselves to have year-round school. For us, the school year has a clear beginning and end, the gap in between school years is between five and six weeks long. I guess it's what you're used to. When I was a kid, I often heard parents complain (every year!) that six weeks' summer holiday was far too long, for kids and for parents. So people will always find something to complain about.

We don't have as man states as the US so you would expect it to be easier for us to have a more nationally coordinated education system. However, our states are still not in line with one another. There are moves to get it there, however. Even our health system is state-administered, despite our nationalised health care.

Whenever there is an inservice for staff, it is done within state. Often we make use of satellite technology with teachers gathering in regional areas rather than travelling to the state capital. Even union meetings are handled via satellite. We don't have many states but the ones we have tend to be big in area, plus our roads aren't great. It's more a matter of timing - conferences, meetings etc can be held at convenient times because of how it all coordinates time-wise.

Those who can, travel. But when large numbers of people are involved, satellite hook-up deals with it.

We also often used the community library as rendezvous. Because we're living virtually on an island (with road access, but it involves a long detour) we often had to make some tricky arrangements with transport. That's why the kids travelled by boat to get to the mainland and further transport to school! And crikey, it sure is cold on the water before sunrise!

[Aside - we were going out to lunch today, had planned to catch the boat. But with gale-force winds expected, we chose to drive instead. It would be just our luck to come out from lunch to find the boat service cancelled for the rest of the day due to high seas whipped up by the gales. It happens often, and during school terms they have to put on a special charter bus to get the kids home, otherwise they'd be stranded.]

I hated school too, as a kid. Absolutely loathed it. I couldn't wait until my school days were behind me. I don't think longer summer holidays would have helped me - knowing my luck, my mother would have found more creative ways to keep me occupied and I STILL would have been miserable!

I'm not sure who it was who said it, but I agree - the problem with education is NOT so much the amount of time allocated to education, it is the way it is put to use. In the time siince difficult child 3 was transferred to Distance Education, I have finally learned what teaching is really supposed to be like. I have seen kids who previously hated school, who weren't coping, who were treated like dirt by teachers, suddenly discover that not only is it possible to enjoy school, but there are teachers out there who enjoy helping them, who teach them about respecting others as well as self-respect, and who make education effective and enjoyable. The amount of lesson time that these kids do is often less than when they were in mainstream; but they are learning more and doing a lot better, because the effort involved (on everybody's part) is much more efficient.

It's like - we've been through purgatory, we've paid our dues, we've endured the worst. Now is our reward in heaven. At least, that's wat it feels like now.

If only all school could be like this (and I don't see why it can't) then the issue of "I hate school" would arise only very rarely. And would be immediately investigated and remedied, by the school staff.

It will be interesting to see what arises from this debate. But I very strongly doubt that it will involve ANY increase in the total annual school hours.

Marg
 

hearts and roses

Mind Reader
I would be in favor of a longer school day IF there was no homework given. Frankly, my kids get home by 3:30 and do nothing until I get home between 6 and 7 and then I have to do the HW with them. I'd rather have them in school till 5 or so and then come home and have a nice dinner and relax with them. Long term projects would be OK because they do need to learn how to budget time.

I would be happy with a longer school year as opposed to a longer school day. Our high schoolers here are standing at their bus stops as early as 6:15 in some areas, as we're rural in some areas and share one HS. Longer days would not be suitable really, and especially in the winter months when it gets dark around 4:30 pm - people with kids involved in after school sports have always fought the longer school day. Also, I believe family time around the dinner table is more important than test scores and longer days mean tired kids and rushed dinner hours due to other committments. It's already a strain on so many families.

That said, a longer school year would be ideal in my humble opinion. It hasn't been mentioned yet, but my problem with our shorter (180 days) school year and long summer break is that our district continues to introduce new programs without eliminating old ones. Thus, our teachers are squeezing more and more into the school day which means that nothing is being covered extensively or long enough for the kids to really comprehend the material. Then the students are sent home with loads of HW on material they really do not fully understand. I think a majority of the districts out there need to turn the basic curriculum upside down, give it a nice cleaning out, remove all the crud and then figure out a way to teach everything the students need to learn by stretching it over a longer school year...WITHOUT HOMEWORK.

I am strongly in favor of eliminating homework. Not long term projects, just the day to day 'busy-work' type of homework. The stuff they don't have enough time to fully cover in school. Without HW, I think difficult child would have gotten much better grades. Incorporating weekly quizzes to keep the teacher in the know as to how much her students are absorbing would more beneficial than giving them homework they can just copy out of their textbooks and that teachers barely even look at makes more sense to me. Most teachers at the HS level are just checking to see that the HW was completed and aren't even reviewing it!

Of course, all of this is a moot point for me personally, as I have no school aged children anymore...but one day I will have little grandchildren and would love to see some changes implemented now.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
No homework, which I don't see the point of and hate, and a month more of school would be fine with me. But I agree that family time is more important than school, school, school. And in our country we value extracurricular activities, which I do find very important. I don't get why other countries don't value that as much as we do.
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
Well...I dont think that starting school earlier is going to fly. My kids were like many here and started at 6:30 in the morning by HS waiting for the bus. No way can you go earlier than that. Now if you want to consider keeping them at school for sports and clubs and music till 5...go for it. I would consider that more of a social thing.

I do think education is important and I think we have lost something somewhere. I was a bit shocked at what wasnt taught in my kids schools. I guess there isnt time to teach everything but especially in the history portion of their education, they got short changed. Paul Revere wasnt studied. They didnt have to memorize the poem about the midnight ride of Paul Revere. I dont believe they learned about the Minute Men. They had no clue about why December 7th was a big deal.

They do know these things because I taught them. I took them to Boston and took them to the harbour where the Boston Tea Party happened. I took them to see the place where the shot heard round the world happened. I had them read about Paul Revere and showed them where he road his famous ride. I took them to Williamsburg and showed them where Patrick Henry gave his famous Give me Liberty or give me death speach. I took them to Jamestown. They didnt learn any of this in their history books. Why? If I wasnt alive or I didnt know these things...my kids wouldnt know it.
 

hearts and roses

Mind Reader
Excellent point, Janet! My girls learned about the civil rights movement through me. I taught them Black History, slavery, abolitionism and those behind the movement, up to current times. When I was taking an African American Women Writers course, I saved all the books and they have read one or two; difficult child is reading one now. I recall calling the school to ask how they were incorporating Black History into Black History month one year when mine were in middle school. No one knew how to respond. I printed out a bunch of reference material, age appropriate for their age groups, and handed it to the principal of our school. She said thanks and that was that - nothing was ever taught. They watch the movie Roots in 7th grade and call that black history education. Puh-leez.

They also didn't teach anything about the women's rights movement either. So, I had to do that also. Not that I minded because it enabled me to teach them a lot more than the school would have (and I got to put my personal bend on it from a women's perspective).

However, they did spend 6 WEEKS teaching them all about Chinese history - from the beginning of time! SIX WEEKS. The students even had to an extensive project and presentation, followed by "Chinese Night" at the school for the parents to attend. It was the exact same curriculum they had been using for 20 YEARS. That floored me.
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
I sent my kids to school on December 7th all set to talk about Pearl Harbor Day and what it meant...blah blah blah. This was in elementary school. It was a huge deal when I was little. Practically a holiday. I had made the boys little fake name tags and US MARINE and little bars and emblems. I told them in age appropriate terms about what happened at Pearl Harbor that day and how it was the start of WWII and how their Papa served. Not a darned thing was talked about! No one asked why they were dressed that way...lol. It didnt spark a discussion. Gee. What a waste of a good opportunity to teach! Kids learn a whole lot more when they can see and hear and talk about something than if it is just words on paper.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
And I think this is the real issue. Everyone in the US knows that there are homes where the kids are living with drug addicts who are in gangs, and since the parents have no investment in their kid's educations, they aren't going to learn. And if they are in poor areas, there aren't the taxes for good schools, which doesn't matter anyway because where education is NOT valued, kids don't value it.

I think parents play a big part in education. Without much exception, high-income, high-achieving areas of the country, the schools are great and the kids learn because the parents insist on it, both to their children and put pressure on the schools. In middle-of-the-road areas (like mine) I feel schools are middle-of-the-road. And where nobody cares and few graduate, the kids pick up the bad aura toward learning. In some areas you can get your face beaten in for being studious. Heck, you can get killed.

I don't think a longer day or year will help that.

At any rate, I doubt this will pass and I'm hoping for healthcare, not this :tongue:. I'm fine with things as they are.
 

witzend

Well-Known Member
Is there school on Saturday?
Although this may describe some sort of satellite school or private school, this isn't anything being discussed for public schools. Someone was ill informed.

Year 'round schools are a very good idea for kids in my opinion in many ways. If there's any doubt, just look at our General Board in May and September. What will we do with the kids this summer? What will my child remember from last year? We just got my child settled into classes/summer, now I have to disrupt his or her schedule again! Do I stop/start medication?

Most of the teachers I know only get about 5 weeks off in the summer, between setting up and taking down classrooms. They could spread that out throughout the year. I was in year 'round for a few years as a girl. It was kind of nice. We got 4 - 5 two week breaks throughout the year, plus the usual Christmas and Spring breaks.

So far as whether a longer (or more consistent year round) school year goes with helping with apathy, I think that kids get the idea that they don't need to care about school when they have three months to find trouble to get into.
 
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