? accomodations has a "perfect" BiPolar (BP), ADHD, Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) ...

[totoro]

gotten from their schools???

K is basically really good in school, her school is not addressing the really bad kids and the kids that obviously need help... so when they see her, well they have implied on 2 occasions that we are lying.
Her IQ is high, she is polite, she is really good...

She has peed her pants twice now after they have pulled her out to test her, anxiety??? husband or I work with her every day to get her to school. She is in the afternoon Kindergarten class and would not be making it to the early one...
Basically all of her "bad" behaviors are held in until she gets home...

I think she is distracted in class, but she is so smart that she still does well. We are taking her in to have her eyes re-evaled, and I am to talk with the speech therapist this Thusrday...
She is depressed, violent, hyper, distracted, hypomanic... but all at home.

What can I honestly ask for in the class??? The psychologist said to me today that K was fine and doing wonderful in school and found it hard to believe she was not doing well...
If she is doing so well do I just back off and wait until she starts doing poorly, if ever???

Thanks you guy's

 

[Sheila]

Children that can hold it together at school are tough. The school is only obligated to offer special supports after the child is qualified for services. In order to qualify, the disorder has to impact the educational environment.

 

[Sheila]

I "submitted" before I was ready. Sorry. lol

That doesn't meant that you can't discuss the problems with-the principal, teacher and school counselor. It might be worth their wile to try to address some issues to keep her from going into a downward spiral, because typically sooner or later the behaviors seen at home will present at school.

And, yes, wetting her pants could be an anxiety symptom. It was for my son.

 

[totoro]

Thank you AGAIN... one more question... so we have the meeting October25th- at that meeting if they deny us anything... what then? Is it still good that we alerted them to her probable issues to come? And will it be easier to get services then, when and if she starts exhibiting them in class?
"generally speaking"

I have a feeling like the thread you linked, because of her high IQ and her wanting to please everyone... well that makes them more than happy. Which I can understand.

Frustrating...

 

[Martie]

Send the certified letter stating your belief that your child has a disability that impacts her ability to follows school rules and progress in the general education classroom. This will protect her legally.

I would certainly think that two wetting accidents are a sign of anxiety in a child who has probably been toilet trained for years.

IDEA 2004 is supposed to be more proactive and not require "waiting to fail." However, the brighter the child, the longer it takes for a negative academic impact to manifest at school. been there done that in grades 1-5 with ex-difficult child.

One thing that helped was husband and I resigning from the routine of it taking "two parents two hours to get one kid two-tenths of a mile to school" each day. When attendance got poor, then ex-difficult child became more anxious (because he was behind), plus I live in a SD that wants "perfect" everything---kids (yeah, right), test scores, attendance rates, etc. So declining attendance was a sign that made a difference to them. Prior to "resigning", I also had a card you cannot "play" because the year before ex-difficult child weighed as much as me and was about 5 feet tall, so when husband traveled, there was no way I could force him into the car. I would just call and say he was refusing, I was alone....and THAT'S NEGATIVE IMPACT.

I know this will not work for a child as young as yours, but it does illustrate that you need to figure out what it is that your difficult child might "do" that they will consider as having a negative educational impact.

Martie

 

[Mickey2255]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Martie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Prior to "resigning", I also had a card you cannot "play" because the year before ex-difficult child weighed as much as me and was about 5 feet tall, so when husband traveled, there was no way I could force him into the car. Martie </div></div>

I just have to comment on this because I had was having flash-backs to when my son was in kindergarten and first grade. He was about 45 lbs and not especially tall so I could usually get him IN the car to go to school but I often couldn't get him OUT of the car! I'd end up dropping my easy child at the curb and then parking in the lot to get difficult child out. I'd try dragging him out and he'd brace his feet against the door frame of the car. Then when I'd go to readjust the grip, he'd flip himself over into the back of the car (SUV). If I'd open the back tail gate, he'd flip back into the seats. We could go on like this for what seemed forever with me racing around the car like a mad-woman! Eventually he'd start laughing and I could catch him and he'd act like it had been some big game all along. And there I was sweating with hair standing on end trying to figure out how I was going to clean myself up before I got to work...

Michelle - who is very happy this hasn't happened in quite a long time now and probably just jinxed myself...

 

[totoro]

Martie- We have sent the letter and are done with the assessments... this meeting on the 25th is for the Evaluation to determine if she is eligible for any services. Everytime I talk to someone after they assess her they hint like she is not going to get anything not does she need anything and they act like we are crazy... even with the peeing in class. Even when I tried to explain twice after they took her out of class and she wet her pants that if they had let us know ahead of time we could talk to her about it... "Oh, she seemed perfectly fine at the assessment" "Kids wet their pants"

I guess I am realizing that what some of you have said is becoming clear... just because she has a diagnosis doesn't mean she gets or needs help according to the school...

I just didn't know in this situation if there was anything that could be asked for??? That has worked for situations like this with a very smart kid who is good in class, but falling apart at home??? Like spacing at tables for distractions, anything? I am grasping at straws...

And is it neccassary? The minute we left school today she lost it... wanted something. I said not right now. Elevated... ended up locking herself in the car for 45 minutes screaming at me... yet they don't see nor believe any of it...
Right now as I am trying to type this I have backed and played with them all night... I asked them to please go up stairs while I typed something real quick... they are both sitting here clinging to me LOL... K is whining about how scared she is... "I can't I'm scared" lying on the floor... part would love to take her off her medications fill her with sugar and let her stay up all night and send her happily to school... but I care too much about her mental well being to do that!!! But it would serve the school right...

thanks again

 

[Martie]

Eventually in my opinion your child is going to fall apart at school...you should do whatever you can to make that sooner rather than later, because she is going to suffer more the longer this lasts.

I would not take a stable child off medications to "prove" anything to a school but she does not sound very stable to me.

I guess I would stop trying so hard...that is what I meant when I said I "resigned." I also resigned from fighting over homework because it was destroying whatever peace we had. This is not a big deal in KDG, but school refusal and lack of homework EVENTUALLY produce the required negative impact.

It is difficult for many people to understand exactly how problematic my ex-difficult child was, because he is my EX-difficult child, and by any reasonable standard successful now---but only because he is where he is; he would not be successful in a 4 year liberal arts college which would be high school all over again. Further, I still have the feeling that Mickey expressed: by saying that he is successful, I probably brought the evil eye....how long does it take for the mother of a difficult child to get over waiting for the other shoe to drop? I have no idea but I'll let you know if it ever happens.

I wish I had done less to try to shoehorn my son into school expectations for so long....if I had "let" him fail earlier, perhaps he would not have ended up out of our home for 14 months. Perhaps I am kidding myself, but this whole, "can't qualify because you are too bright" combined with kiddos who act out mostly at home for years is enough to drive a parent up the wall.

All I am saying is don't try so hard thinking you are saving your child----make reasonable efforts and be her mother. Let the school do their part---especially if they start having problems and want YOUR help...they aren't helping you at home, so if they want help from you, they need to qualify her.

It is a terrible feeling to want your child to have more problems sooner at school, but that is what it will take for them to see a negative educational impact. Going through that experience is damaging--no doubt about it. I know my son has feelings of rejection and self-doubt due to things that happened to him in public school. On another board I mentioned taking some Juilliard kids out for lunch....the conversation drifted to school prior to college---extremely negative even for non-difficult children. My son sat silent because his experience was SO MUCH WORSE, but it was interesting to me how uniformly schools all over the country do poorly with children who are different....almost all of them are bright but not academically motivated....marching to a different drummer. It made me think that no matter what I had done, I could not have "saved" my son, and I should have done less not more early on. I have no idea if this is at all helpful to you, but I do know what it is like to have a child whose major problems emanate from school but who enacts them at home. You are in a tough situation.

Martie

 

[totoro]

Thank you Martie!!! Well said... I have voiced this thought to husband and he says, "No we have to help her get there and through it" I will let him read this and talk some more... Our therapist agrees and despises the SD... Her kids are young as well. I think she would back us on any decision as well.

Thank you...

 

[SRL]

I didn't have to fight the district for services but I will agree that they really took notice (translation: started talking retention and upped the level of services) once the school refusal started in. Like most parents, I went to great lengths to get him there...which I realized in hindsight was contributing greatly to his anxiety. He really needed another plan. FWIW, if my SD had denied services for half day kindergarten, they would have had no choice when all day first grade hit because all hell broke loose when he was hit with that.

Our school district was understanding about the falling apart the moment they left school issue, but then again it's a large district and most the team members had experience in dealing with kids who struggled with anxiety. The school psychiatric flat out said it wasn't fair to the family and one of the first things they try is to put something into the child's schedule to help them vent some steam at the end of the day. My difficult child had a classroom break with an aide 20 minutes before the end of the day. They said one student in another school was taken to the gym and got to run laps--after 5 minutes of that he could handle reentry.

If I were you, I would ask for accomodations to address Sensory Integration Disorder (SID) and classroom breaks to help with the anxiety/home meltdown cycle. If you need to stealthily video an afterschool meltdown to convince them, then do it. If there are any social issues whatsoever, early in the child's schooling is the time to address them.

Didn't any of the specialists that have seen her make school recommendations?

 

[totoro]

SRL- Great ideas thanks...

No, no-one had any recommmendations aside from our therapist who is coming with to the meeting... but even she had doubts up till now, she has only just recently seen the "other side" of K... it really is unbelievable to have a kid with the history, videos etc... yet can honestly "hold" it together in most settings, not unbelievable to most us here, but I can see why these people would doubt somewhat.
But come on I do have all of the documentation plus videos!!! And K admits all of it!!! SHe says she tries to hold it together, that she doesn't want her teachers and classmates to see this side of her. So she holds it in, as much as possible.
Her newish psychiatrist3 said lets see how she does, I think in part because of how well she was doing in the psychiatric hospital, but that was with other kids like her and with people who understood her... and I would still have the falling apart at night!!! I am trying to set up a phone meeting with him this week or next to discuss this and K's increase in violence towareds her sister.
You guy's are right though, I am going to back off a bit and see what transpires!!!
Thanks so much again.

 

[pepperidge]

Totoro,

you've gotten great advice. I wanted to let you know something I did. I zeroxed the newsletter from the bipolar child website -- the one entitled 24/7 and gave it every one of my kids' teachers. It does a great job of dealing with the "they tend to be better behaved in school" than at home mentality. It will give them a better idea of what you are dealing with on the home front, does it in non technical language, and has a bit more authority since it doesn't come from you directly.

For the moment, I wouldn't be too worried if you can't think of specifics for the IEP. My oldest is very anxious. I stressed early on in the elementary years the need for a low stress place to go, and in getting my child to have a connection with counselor or Special Education teacher. As time went on in school, we needed aides, and accomodations for his severe school refusal (we went to half days). The key is having an IEP that meets the current challenges--it can always be amended later. So don't stress too much at this point.

P.

 

[pepperidge]

When my child also started to put his head on the table and refuse to participate in class in 4th grade, I think they finally started to take notice.

You are wise not to increase your daughter's stress by telling her she has to behave at school or punishing her for what she does as school. Let the school try to deal with negative behaviors as they emerge--your job as parent in my humble opinion is to see that they are dealing with them appropriately, not to stop them as a parent.

I have been there on the 45 min meltdown after school. What have I learned about it? I dunno, just that I would make it worse if I tried to get into a powerstruggle. For a while, my son demanded I meet him with a snack. NOw we only lived ten minutes from school, but he needed a snack NOW. It just wasn't worth the battle. Hard to believe I even thought it was. Is there any kind of transition activity that would help her? Playing on the playground? Giving her a gameboy or DVD for the drive home to zone her out? Don't know what she needs that might help.

While she is too young (hopefully!) to have homework in K, if that is something that causes problems, that is one area where you can intervene. Insist on no homework in IEP. She is bright and will survive without doing for quite a number of years.

good luck. hugs your way.

 

[Sheila]

This thread tredges up some bad memories for me.

I finally flat out asked the school district, "Am I going to have to let him fail before we can get the help he needs?"

Parents should help and be as supportive of (reasonable) educators as possible. We have to over-see homework, help them stay on track, make sure they eat well, get appropriate sleep, attend to the medical side of the problem, but educational services a child needs must be delivered at the point of performance -- in other words, at school.

The more I did at home, the more the sd expected me to do. It was draining on difficult child and me, disruptive to the home environment. When I reached my saturation point, could not re-teach any more curriculum, could not fight one more homework battle, could not endure one more school triggered meltdown, I backed off. His grades took a nose-dive; the A/B student was no more. And we finally made some progress with-getting him service. It still wasn't without a royale battle, but the "proof" they coveted became very apparent -- grades.

Interesting excerpt:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Many students identified as having learning disabilities are not failing to achieve commensurate with their age level and are passing from grade to grade at the same rate their peer. Yet these same students are still in need of special education and related services in order to benefit from education. This is true for students with above average intelligence as well as students with average intelligence.

The reason these students are achieving and passing is because parents are spending countless hours helping their children with homework, reviewing material and studying for tests. Parents also spend a great deal of money year after year on tutors thereby providing services themselves. Another factor in the academic success of these students is that many of their teachers do an outstanding job of individualizing instruction and modifying curriculum and tests.

These children are not failing because they are not being allowed to fail. Parents and teachers are giving this type of support because they understand the devastation that comes with failure. </div></div>

It's from http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/elig.sld.osep.felton.htm .

 

[totoro]

Sheila- Yes I think it is too true... I am backing off already!!! I am having the talk with husband today... he just got home and with therapist this afternoon... our meeting is on the 25th... so I will just spend this time reading, copying, organizing and trying to have some fun with K!!!

I have a phone date with psychiatrist3 in the morning, I will ask his opinion as well. I don't think he will make it to this meeting. He is 90+ mile away. But I imagine he would when and if things get worse...

Pepperidge- somedays I really think she just needs to let it out after school, you know? She starts getting this look in her eyes. Kind of evil, hostile. Starts grunting asking for things she knows we can't do... We live 3 miles from school, so I try to get them home so we can play or change then run around. But she just falls into this depression, I want something special, I am horrible, I am stupid, or it gets angry and she is kicking my seat and screaming... I always have snacks in the car. She just wants the constant elevation, the mania... we are addressing this in therapy.

Thanks-
It is good to know that that we aren't the only one's who are crazy!!! With the "perfect" kid... it makes you feel like a bad parent some days... why is she so good at school? I realize she can't help all of it and she doesn't want any of this.... but when someone questions you especially the people who are there to help... it does hit home and hurt.

 

[flutterbee]

I wish with everything in me that I had read this thread 5 years ago. I, too, carried difficult child to the car...kicking and screaming, grabbing on the the handrail on the stairs, grabbing ahold of the car to avoid being put inside...and dropped her at school in tears on a daily basis. She, too, 'shut down' in class and didn't do any work, but unlike SRL, this wasn't noticed...or wasn't recognized as a problem.

It wasn't until she became too big for me to carry, until the 4-5 hour nightly homework battles became too much and I was just worn out that I 'resigned' like Martie.

All along the SD refused to acknowledge any problems. I know in my heart that had this been addressed when it started in grade 2, that her school anxiety and refusal would have never gotten to the level it is at now. I thought I was doing the right thing, but I was really forcing my child into an environment that created sky high anxiety without any supports or coping skills. It's really not much different from putting a phobic into a pit of spiders with no way out. It didn't force her to deal with it and get over it...there were no supports in place for that to happen. Instead, it fed her fears and reinforced her anxiety.

When I finally 'resigned', it made a difference. I also noticed that missing the first week of October really got their attention. In Ohio, funding for schools is based on attendance during the first week of October (makes no sense to me). I didn't deliberately keep difficult child out of school that week, but I stuck to my resignation, whereas I would have doubled my efforts that week in the past.