Discussion in 'Family of Origin' started by SomewhereOutThere, Jul 22, 2018.
I know there will always be a lot of anger on Sundays, after disappointing Saturday nights.
SWOT. This is a cryptic post.
Are you reading your sister's social media? If so, why go there?
Everything in your life is coming up roses. Your new home. Your animals. Your children. Your marriage. Your friends and support network.
Your early life and family served a very important purpose. They made you who you chose to become. Without that nexus, the future possibilities would not have been launched. You created your life out of a bed of thorns. Own your life.
If you are reading your sisters posts it can only be to punish yourself: Why?
To pay a pound of flesh. Yours. This is what your early life taught you to do. To punish yourself, in order that your sister and mother, not feel so damaged. You did this, we did this, so that we would not feel important or worthy. Why? Because if we did we would feel rage at the people who did this to us. We could not afford that rage. We were little tiny girls. They were all we had.
Now. Not so.
When we go to this dark place now, it is us who go there. They do not do this to us. We choose it. And as quickly as we wish we can un-choose it and go to the light.
Right now you are complying. You are complying with your mother. You are complying with your sister. Stop it. It does not help them. It does not help you for sure. Stop it. It is a legacy of a sad past, that does not any longer exist, except in our memory. But we are crafting new memories. Little by little.
Copa, thank you. I would hug you if you were here.
It seems as if we are both caught in this sick toxic non relationship with both of us, me included, needing to "win." There is no other reason we do this, but I never thought about how much my mother, way back when, set us both up for this toxic addiction.
Why do I play this sick game? Because it is an addiction, a sick one and the same for her. I will not check her nasty posts for long periods of time and I forget about her. Then one day, I am bored and think its over and that I can handle it, so I look, and, like any addict, I am drawn into this ugliness that accomplishes nothing for either her or me
You know, like you, I may start going back to AlAnon or even AA, although I never drank. I have this addiction.. In all areas of life I am content and I usually am happy so I dont see a therapist often enough to work this out with one. Its an addiction problem that my mom instilled into both of us. And one person I never want to "win" is my mother, who set up this dynamic.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I am addicted to this game. If I dare even read a posting title I am drinking alcohol again.
Twelve Step is very helpful to me and they deal with all addiction issues now. Tomorrow I am looking into meeting times. Enough is enough. I deserve to stop ever taking the bait. I dont even CARE what is said anymore. Its just that childhood hook to do a tit for tat. Addiction.
Thank you again. I am better than this. You are very brave and I love how you speak up. I needed this.
I feel good just knowing I will be taking real steps to stop this addiction. I dont need to try to win. In all seriousness, I already won, at least I have the life I dreamed about and never thought I would have.
Swot. You know I have a similar dynamic with my own sister. My mother set us up too. There was not enough for both of us. There was a winner and a loser....I always deferred to my sister. I let her have my mother. The way I coped was to go off and live a life apart from them. I did not know how to survive near them. My win was I got to have a life, some success and an independent self, to some extent, which I could never have had near them.
They did not stop me. I stopped me. I could not allow myself to have anything, near them, in any kind of a sustained way. No voice. No happiness. No real self-respect. No self-protection.
It is all very very sad. Because I see now that the limitations were in me. Yes. My sister is mean. My mother was self-serving and self-involved. But lots of people make decent family relationships with people like this. I did the best I could. But it is not enough.
Copa I actually think you did the smart thing. Yes, we could have been very nice and smiled at them. And due to your mom being so grateful to you at the end, maybe she was a tad easier to get along with than mine, perhaps not. Mine disliked me from birth and wasnt too found of my sister either. She actually tended to worship certain men...her brother, my brother, her eventual boyfriend. She had no real adoration of any females, at least not until I was around 40...after that she didnt tell me who she worshipped.
She loved my grandma but was furious at her too and I was a witness to her fury when she didnt know I was there. But at other times that I didnt actually hear with my own ears my grandma would call me all upset because my mother had yelled at her. My mother would berate her for favoring her brother, the one that she also worshipped while she resented him too. Crazy.
Right before my grandma died, she was in a nursing home supposedly recovering and I was going to visit. Before I got to her room, i heard my mothers voice so I stopped walking to listen. She was berating my grandmother, who was recovering, for favoring her brother. I heard her meanness first hand. Like my Mother hadnt favored MY brother. She had a lot of nerve and my grandma was 82 and very sick...that was not the time for my mother to be giving my grandma grief. I hastily walked in she stopped. And left almost right away.
My grandma died in that same bed a few days later. My mother was not a nice person. Who does that when somebody you supposedly love is that sick???
Copa I tried to get along with my mother, calling her when she never called me back and apologizing for things I didnt do to try to make peace. But she wouldnt do it. She didnt want to get along with me. You can not get along with all difficult people and I feel you were smart to get away. Your sister's letter to you was as vile as my sister's constant cop calling.
Could you have gotten along well with your family AND kept your integrity? Been yourself? Had ANY self esteem?
I believe we did what we had to do. I had emotionally slipped away from them by my 40s. Trying to have peace with my mom and my sister was not about feeling strongly bonded to either, although I did feel a bond toward my sister. It faded slowly with the cop calling and constant cut offs until I had to end it. But I once felt a bond, although I am not sure why. With my mother I did not feel a bond. Ever.
I wish I had left them when I got married the first time. I was the family scapegoat and that never stopped and around them I felt worthless. Yet I now feel I accomplished more in my personal life than my mother, my sister and my brother did.
To me, having a long term love relationship trumps having a good career. Not that my sister has a good career, but my brother did...but no love connecton. I know how much they both lost out on by not having a love connection that is overwhelming and raising kids with the love of your life. They missed out on that.
I have that. Its a rare gift from God. This was what I always wanted more than anything else in the world. My sister did too. But she cant ever have what I had...it is too late in her life and she doesnt choose good men...men like my husband and your M who treat us as if we are special. I believe to the core of my soul that my sister wishes she had a man whom she loved who loved her back and had raised kids with him.
Instead she chose to waste eight years with a narcicist. We had the same exact horrible upbringing, but I did not chose a narcicist and she did. So she is understandably angry. Why feed into it? Nothing would change. I wish she had made better choices but she didnt. She didnt like nice men.
Copa we survived the best we knew how, without being taught early coping skills. I cant speak for your mother, but mine had no coping skills herself so she couldnt teach what she didnt know. She was a disaster as a mother of minor children. I suspect if she hadnt moved to Indiana, far from Sis, their relationship, in which they couldnt see each other much, would have erupted.
You had a great career. I am in awe of all you accomplished. You have a long term amazing boyfriend and a son who YES loves you, whether he is difficult or not. You are very special.
We both are.
I am so very grateful you reached out to me tonight. You stopped me from perpetrating my behavioral addiction and I have much gratitide and affection to you for this.
I wish you a peaceful night with your wonderful man. G-d bless.
Light and love!!
You're right. Blaming myself I guess is my addiction *one of them. It just still feels that there had to have been a way to do this right. I suffered so much when my mother died. It will have been five years pretty soon.
I guess the only way out is compassion for myself. And really accepting I did the best I could. There are just so many dead bodies at the side of the road. So much emotional pain. So much cruelty and in the case of my family, degradation. I need to be grateful that I am not one of the dead bodies. I saved myself. Until I no longer did.
I believe both the rabbi I speak to and a therapist I saw several times, think that I should NOT have taken care of my mother. That a person with more self-love, less guilt, better boundaries would have not don.e so That it cost me too much emotionally. I do not think I would have done it without M. I do not know what I would have done. Maybe let my sister dominate me and call the shots. Who knows? I can't go back. Just forward.
My mother had tremendous coping skills about most things, except inter-personally. She had very specific rules with people. Her needs first. Only that.
She sucked me dry. She used people. She was very assertive. She was warm and attractive but she put herself first. I loved her very much. But she was hard to love, in that you had to love her first. And really only her. First. Second. Third. And you came last, if at all. And if her needs were not served, you just dropped away, totally out of the picture. (Oh. How I feel sorry for my baby self.) And any love was conditional based upon if she felt happy and satisfied.
M says my mother loved her (Freudian slip, I mean, me) in the way she could. And I believe that is true. But it was not what I needed. I lived a life that was very, very affected by my parents' limitations.
That is one reason I suffer so much about my son. It feels like history repeating itself.
I read a post in the last day or two by re (or was it New Leaf). I hope I can find it again. She quotes the lady who is a buddhist monk. i forget her name. Who says, to paraphrase, our spiritual life develops in the gap between what we wish for and what really happens, what life presents. That is a true thing.
Thank you SWOT.
Copa.....you can not reasonably get along well with people who care only about themselves. You were the child.There was nothing you could have done even as an adult to have any satisfactory relationship with a person,even a mother, who is a me only, my needs only person. Impossible. So you left, like many especially very bright young people whose minds take them where they need for nourishment. That is often far away, even abroad. So what? You stayed in touch. You didnt have to. And you were there for Mom at the end, a very compassionate place to be. You did it right in my opinion.
As for your sister, a cease and desist letter to you over a birthday greeting is meanly over the top. Reminds me of how my sister continuously called the cops when I had done nothing wrong, except to tick her off. They are over the top control freaks who will do anything to get their win. They would probably get along well, plot well together.
Except their desperate behavior is really their loss. They are not winning. I know my sister misses me. But her life is lacking compared to mine and perhaps your sister feels the same way about you. So they reach too far, in their sick minds, to teach us a lesson about living better lives than them, making better choices. They are angry about that. Dare I say jealous?
I do. Neither would ever ever admit jealousy but it is a big part. Frankly, it is not the other way around. My sister is nothing I like and has noithng I want. I would be very sad if I had her life.But my life is the life my sister dreamed of with the love of HER life, a handsome but unbalanced narcicist. She.picked a bad man, but she is no prize herself! Like attracts like. She has been almost evil.
My man is a great guy.. So is yours. This means something. I treat my hub with so much appreciation. I know what a gem he is. I would not trade him for anyone else.
I could tell you the heinous way my sister forced her ex to build a new house for them that they couldnt afford...his father forever kept paying a load of their mortgage, just like the welfare folks Sis loathes for being lazy....and not paying their way. She did the same, only she threatened to divorce her ex if his rich farher did not help them buy this huge new construction. They already had a nice house! Apparently ex talked his father into helping them pay so that Sis wouldnt leave him.
Then she left his son anyway and they lost money on that house....who does this?? Greedy, shallow, mean people? It never would have crossed my mind. Maybe this is her karma...being alone or with bad men.
In my sisters case I stupidly disclosed that I have a very guilty conscience so she is using that against me. What she doesnt know, and wont ever know, as I have cut her off forever, is that when it comes to her, I have no guilt anymore. I'm all out.
Yes, I teased her when we were children and I was much older than her. I was very jealous of her then. IIthought she was the token "normal" in the family and that everyone else was crazy. So I teased her, which was mean. And, boy, knowing what I know now I think she just hid her craziness. Between lifelong anorexia and probably some Borderline (BPD) or natcicism or both she is the least normal of all of us lol.
Back to the teasing, heck, where was my mother? She could have stopped me easiily.Just not taking me to my beloved drama classes would have stopped me. Cold. If i was still teasing her when I drove, and I dont believe I was but pretend I still did, then Mother, um, take the car keys. Yes, I would have had a tantrum. I was a child and teen with anxiety and a mood disorder and I did tantrum. But it didnt last forever. I needed the ddiscipline.That car was my everything; my way out of the house. If she had taken the car keys it would have worked. I did these things to discipline my own kids and it wasnt always fun but it worked. My mother yelled at and insulted and sbused me. But she acted as if Sis was invisible and unimportant. I dont k ow what is worse. Maybe the answer is lifelong anorexia and attachment disirder, serious mental issues she was diagnosed with. Id rather have a well controlled mood disorder if I had to pick. I am guessing Sis has depression issues too. Thanks, Mother.
My mother didnt want to parent or teach or defend and protect. That is on her. I am not guilty about teasing her anymore. In therapy many times I have been told it was on my mother to at least reasonably try to discipline her kids. Even in group therapy. So now I blame the adult as I would blame myself if that went on in my house and I did not go all out to stop it.
Her adult abuse of me came from her need to be in control over me. I dont care anymore. The weird part of my ever checking her deliberately mean.posts is that they really dont bother me....what she alleges doesnt. Yes, I had mental illness. So does she. She has been anorexic since age 18.
Copa i would not have cared so lovingly for a mother I did not feel cared for me. But your mother loved you as much as she was able. Since she loved you I dont feel you were foolish to care for her in the end. I am sorry only that you feel you could and should have made things better with two very difficult people. You DID do your best and you did not.lose yourself in the muddle. That was smart of you.
Yes, we get addicted to especially negative people and our own thoughts. Obviously I did. We always want those who wronged us to apologize. Often, in their minds, they think WE owe THEM an apology.
I apologized to my mother. I am not sure why and what I did that was so awful and it didnt work. I wont apologize again for made up issues in another person's mind. I dont expect apologies either.
What I want I will get. I want silence. I want no contact.
My biggest "sin" right now is ever thinking I can look at her posts. So for ME I am going to start today with Twelve Step. You start forgiving yourself today. Okay? ,
Lets see how good we do.
Light and love!
I treated my sister well. I was loving to her as a child. I was almost a surrogate mother. In adulthood I never stood up to her until the end, in order to protect my mother (and myself). I was never ever mean to her. But she blamed me for everything, especially for her bad behavior. She projected the responsibility onto me and made herself in her own mind, my victim. And then, she would batter me with criticism and blame, for all the bad deeds that she herself had done. There was no win with her. She was both aggressive and passive aggressive. I do not know how she can keep a friend, let alone a husband. Except her current husband has no assets, and she is borderline rich. He defers to her in everything.
Not really. I think they would hate each other. People like them need a submissive, need a patsy.
My mother said this and I did not believe her. She thought my sister had deep envy for me, jealousy, and a sense of inferiority to me. I did not see it. But I think you are right. I think their main gripe is that we have ourselves. We have our integrity.
My sister did almost the identical thing.
Just the attitude: a girls got to do what a girls got to do. She really believes that what she wants is justified doing whatever she needs to do. The ends justify the means. And if somebody says ouch, she blames them for causing her hurt. A very, very special person.
Your sister sounds awful. Of course she is jealous. What else prompts these extreme reactions to us from them?
You have to be some kind of insecure to want new better homes so badly that you allow others to pay for them so that you get what you want on someone else's dime...or thousands. My sister has always been materialistic.
She also received money from her narc boyfriend and it was 10k so that she had enough money in the bank for her to qualify for a townhouse. He had to sign that it was a gift, but between them it was understood she would pay him back.
Now, in spite of her inheritance, she wont pay him back because "he abused me." That is a paraphrase. He never hit her. He just didnt want a commitment and often lied about it. Worth 10k? She plain out said he treated her badly so she is paying herself back for his abuse. So he wont see the money.
Anyhow so she takes what is given and never pays back and is quite tickled that he cant take her to court because he wrote that it was a gift. He doesnt need the money. But it still was not really a gift and we spoke about it.
This is the sort of stuff she pulls when she is angry at somebody. Or even, as in the situation with her ex, she just wants something and cant afford it.
She is also cheating her ex into continuing to pay alimony by not telling him how much money she has in the bank.i forgot how she is hiding it from him but she is. I sort of recall maybe she said she didnt get the inheritance yet, which was a lie. Just more Vintage Sneaky.
I think this says it all.
I think our sisters, if co conspirators, would be in a fight for control but would be very good at scheming together against people they are angry at. They obviously dont care who they rip off or over punish.
I was nice to my sister as an adult. She just got angry for petty reasons. Usually I was shocked at what got her upset. And she needed to have the last word. Thus the cops.
I now have one day of not checking her sites and I am going to try for forever. I read an interesting article about detaching from what people say about you, family included. It is the same as detaching from the chaos of an addicted love one's life choices.
Thank you for sharing with me. I really appreciate knowing that somebody understands. Also it may not be nice, but I am glad I am not the only one with a mean sister with shoddy morals.
I had my husband delete the Borderline (BPD) account and pintecrest. It is a lot harder now for me to peek. And i really dont like fussing with my phone. And I am not good at it lol.
Day two. No peeking.
I feel relief. I can do this.
I also am.thinking of peeking into an AA meeting at a close by church. I will just listen. Addiction is addiction. I am learning we can become addicted to anything/anyone. If its not good for you and you cant stop doing it, thats addiction.
I am doing AA online and it is sooooo helpful. I first had to take responsibility for my addiction.
The owning your addiction (to anything) i think is a relief and places behavior squarely on your own shoulders, where it belongs. I dont care if XYZ is writing falseholds to the world on Facebook. Loved ones of mine know the truth and it stings less NOT to look.
It helps to have this reinforced.
Separate names with a comma.