Adult son back in jail for the nth time

[Childofmine]

Welcome detaching mother, we are glad you are here. I saw your post this weekend but wanted to wait until I had time to give a more thoughtful response. You are getting great support and information here---it's so good to hear from people who understand the system from inside.

I hate to say it but I'm more leaning toward not being in the lives of them, so need to possibly step back and let the cards fall where they will. I feel like I dont know what else I can possibly do to make things right.

I was thinking as I was rereading all of the posts here, and then I saw an image of a very tiny you with a garden hose trying to put out a raging fire that was engulfing blocks and blocks of multistory buildings in a very busy downtown.

I see us all like that. We are truly no match for the mental illness that comes from addiction, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and so many more. Our love and care can't stop it. We run and dash and, as you said, put tiny bandaids on situations only to see them ripped off minutes later. This is an agonizing situation, and it sounds like you have been dealing with it for years.

To me the main thing right now is this: He is somewhere (that is good), the baby's mother and the baby are somewhere separate (that is good) and you have truly done all you can do. I do understand that the baby puts a new wrinkle in this whole situation, but like you said, why would you start the insanity all over again, only to be held hostage because of this baby? What good will come of that? I don't know...this is very hard to navigate.

Also, I do have a sense of responsibility to if he hurts someone else....but, I've talked to all the authorities, written letters, docs, nurses, therapists, and nothing changes.

I think writing letters is a good thing for you to do----to help you----and maybe just maybe someone on the other end will read, listen and take a more active interest in this situation.

Detachingmother, do what you have to do to stay safe.

It comes down to this. You have to first take care of you. You are without resources because you've spent it all on him already. I think now, you have to step back and take care of you. Maybe, as things unfold, there will a role to play but not right now.

If the girlfriend parents will see about her and the baby, let them. Let go of that for now. I agree with SWOT, it sounds like CPS will be involved at some point with them and the baby, and perhaps that is the best thing (although I know, a very hard thing).

Our system must start to improve, and I know there is a lot of talk at the national and state levels about doing more about mental illness. I hope it comes sooner rather than later.

In the meantime, we are here for you. What we offer here is support, encouragement, ideas and a soft place to land. Please know we care very much and many of us have walked a similar road so we already know the terrible indecision and agony of all of this.

Keep posting here. Your story will very much help someone else, I guarantee that. Warm hugs this morning. I hope the job turns out! Please let us know.

 

[TerryJ2]

I just wanted to echo your thoughts on the mental health service and the police and courts. Useless. I pressed charges against my son and had ALL the paperwork. The det. hardly had to do anything. It's been months and nothing has happened. And he's not got the illnesses your son has, but still, it's more than aggravating.
My daughter is getting her doctorate in psychology and she has dealt with many pts like your son. One of her favorites lived at St. Elizabeth's in Difficult Child and was involuntarily committed for killing a man ... who woke him up on the couch by getting in his face and touching his shoulder. He had no idea he had done it, until one day in group art therapy with her, he had sort of an epiphany and he started to tremble and cry. He felt so guilty and just hated himself. He had to be removed from the room.
I cannot imagine having to live with a disease like that. My heart goes out to you and your son.
No idea what to say or do about the baby-to-be, except may to keep soc. svcs and police on speed-dial. {{hugs}}
Welcome. So sorry you had to find us, but so glad that you did.

 

[detachingmother]

Child of Mine, that was a great analogy. I do feel like I am constantly putting out fires. With just Son, I have been able to detach, at least as much as was necessary for myself, and when it almost took me down in many ways (taking time of work, having to sacrifice other children's needs to help him, almost being evicted myself bc of his behavior, losing vehicles after he stole and wrecked them, etc--you know what some of us go through).

I feel like as soon as I meet grandgirl, I will be instantly attached, so I almost don't want to even do that...but I will, I'm sure I will not be able to disregard her, the new little princess on the way). I guess I will have to be ready for all that will come with it and learn what I will do or not do. My big "waffle". This is where my legs go weak.

My own daughter has a seizural disorder (schizencephaly---nothing to do with mental illness, just means "split brain"--she was born with a split in her right hemisphere). She lives independently and rarely needs mama for much. Thank GOD, but I need to keep close with her, she lives by me, and right now she's also having a few minor problems with her learning disability and medication control. We go to a doctor appointment all day, the day before my Son's court pretrial, but his issues area always so much crazier, it makes hers seem like a cake walk, and a much welcomed break from him.

Then, my gifted 17 yr old son, Mensa member and a young Toastmaster, and every other thing he was interested in who has a ton on his plate right now, needs me too, even though he is very independent as well. He's graduating this year. He has lots going on, events, plays he's in in the theater, odd competitions, etc, I need to be at and then help plan (Open House-College-etc).

These two are tired of oldest Son disrupting the lives of all of us. Although, they too sometimes enable him. Somehow though, they have been able to separate themselves quite successfully. I many ways we have all already grieved.

I too have separated myself. Booted him out countless times, but it was when I TRULY cut him off that he learned how to at least financially provide for himself.

I have to face the fact that he may not make it. I feel like I have to all over again, throw him to the "sharks", his own demonic sharks, sink or swim. It has to be done. I have to prepare for whatever he chooses. After all, it is his choice and only his choice.

Even sending in the jail shrink again, with a friends help, to get his medications going again, will probably be a waste, since he always quits. That, or he will "outwit" the shrink again.

On one hand, Son seeing me "push" him aside to focus on other kids, will make him worse. They all need things, and such very different attention, it's hard to keep up. I guess one day at a time, one thing at a time, and prioritize hopefully the best way to do it all.

Terry J, Thank you for sharing your story. When my son was in his teens, I pressed charges on him too. I often wonder if letting him go to Juvie, rather than putting him in boot camp was a bad mistake. He was stealing my car, stealing my money and going into one of the worst cities in our country doing who knows what. But it got old, having my car impounded and trashed, and the cops bringing him home in the middle of the night. I thought if I gave him tough love then, it would prevent things from happening in his future, but I have to be honest here, I feel like I made the wrong choice there. He became much more angry, hostile, and started doing drugs. Anyway, bad habit of digressing....can't turn back time.

Good for your daughter. I often though I would've gotten my PhD. I was accepted into all three programs I applied for. I just have a B.S in Clinical with also a Cognitive concentration. Just couldn't do it, my kids had sacrificed enough, as I was older when I went back to school I like the story you shared about the person who murdered during a psychotic episode, well not liked what happened obviously, but like that you shared. During an internship I did an intake on a young woman who had killed her father for raping her. This poor girl went to prison for 10 years. Now that just infuriates me. Yup, this "system" is no good. Very sad. Your daughter must have a huge heart and be very patient and kind, bc that's what it takes to work in this field.

Child of Mine, thanks for wondering. I did get a job offer, as I smiled and put all of Sons issues behind me for a moment, while inside I was crying. Not sure yet if I will take it, because I think I have another one on the line and still need to learn more about which will be the best fit. Interestingly enough, it involves working with adult foster care people, 11 people, 3 of whom have schizophrenia--all high functioning, and regulated and active in community.

Maybe this could work. My small business, which I have done the past 12 years and has nothing to do with mental health, just has not been working out due to new changes our current president made (long story I don't want to think about), and I need to work again, full time out in the world. It's not the clients I dislike working with, it's the damn system. Makes me crazy. lol.

Just talked to psychotherapist friend, he's making call to psychiatrist to get medications to Son in jail. I hope this works.

There I go again, rambling on and on....sorry. I should read some other stories, and get out of my own head.

 

[New Leaf]

DM, you are my hero, you have so much on your plate and you keep on trudging through.

I thought if I gave him tough love then, it would prevent things from happening in his future, but I have to be honest here, I feel like I made the wrong choice there. He became much more angry, hostile, and started doing drugs. Anyway, bad habit of digressing....can't turn back time.

Who knows? You know, I had to give my eldest the boot at 18, she was just not doing much of anything at home, extremely disrespectful and partying......she ended up couch surfing and getting involved with some very shady characters.......fast forward 18 years later, same ole same ole. I think these kids are just too darn hard to figure out, and would have crashed and burned regardless of anything we could have said or done. Don't be so hard on yourself. There is no way to figure this stuff out.

What I am thinking today is that we have a way of going down this parallel path with these kids, just feeling the punches every step of the way.....if only there were a way to stop the madness of it all........I will keep praying on that one.

There I go again, rambling on and on....sorry. I should read some other stories, and get out of my own head.

You just keep rambling, keep posting, it's okay.
Stay in your head and share your story, that's why we are all here.
You are a good person and your words and courage are much appreciated.
You have helped me draw some strength this morning.
Thank you for being you and being here with us.
Wishing you peace of mind today.
(((HUGS)))
leafy

 

[detachingmother]

Finally I have some relief. I feel peaceful tonight. Not sure how long it's been, probably 5 or 6 days since I have talked to son. I answered the phone tonight.

I feel a sense of peace because he's not having major delusions, paranoia, and otherwise bad manipulative behavior toward me. He didn't ask for money, said he was fine and doesn't need anything, other than maybe $10 in his account thursday to buy cards. Ummm, sorry, not sorry, but no card money coming from me. He will just play poker and buy other things he shouldn't have. I am way ahead of him on that one. He's not, however, being "good".

Here's why he's not being "good"....he found a way to buy Seroquel in there by trading his coffee again, which I am not even sure where he got coffee, because last I knew he sold all of his to call his girlfriend and harass her with his paranoia three or so days ago. And I know I didn't buy it, I told him no more for awhile, since he abused the privilege. Jailed people buy and sell and barter like nobody's business.

Being who he is, he told me this over a recorded phone call. Yup, that's right!! He knows they record and listen to every phone call. This isn't his first rodeo. Yet, he proudly announced he found a way to medicate himself--illegally.

This reminded me of when he called me prior to being arrested to ask me to please tell the "cop" that he wasn't drunk driving, he was only driving on his Risperdal, which he actually quit taking months ago--as if that would be perfectly acceptable. So while he isn't in acute/severe mode, he's still not thinking right. He is basically telling the jailers, he's illegally buying non- prescribed to him drugs. UGHHH. Almost laughable, and also like the time he called the state police on himself...if it weren't so sad.

I'm torn on him buying the Seroquel. I did tell him that wasn't going to be acceptable and that now that he said that on a recorded call, he would probably face consequences. He said, no way, they don't mind buying and selling Seroquel. HUH? That can't be right. Right? I thought.... But, in my head I was thinking, well, these people will not get him his medications, well, so he found a way to get his medications himself. Part of me feels good because his doctor has prescribed this before and it DOES work to keep his paranoia and delusions away.

He talked to the psychiatrist three weeks ago and still no medications. The records don't lie, he needs it. My psychotherapist friend who was going to call the jail psychiatrist, could not reach him today, because he had the day off...said tomorrow he will call him again. Praying here.

I could also visualize that he was driving the 9 other guys in his 20 x 20 foot cell crazy, so someone was more than happy to sell him his Seroquel to quiet him up. Because when he's in a manic state which is almost always, with paranoia and delusions, he's insufferable. The cells have been on 24 hour lock down, only get out for recreation twice a month. If I were in a cell with him, I might very well sell him Seroquel too, but now he's probably going to be in more trouble.

Tonight though, I am at peace, not because Son's being a law-abiding, productive citizen, but because he's somewhat at peace. If that makes sense.

And, well, I half-way accepted the job I was offered. I go tomorrow to meet everyone, and to hang around for the day to see if it will be a good fit. One more thing to keep myself busy, and to keep myself happy.

 

[GoingNorth]

He's in for a rude awakening if he thinks Seroquel is gonna do anything more than put him to sleep and leave him horribly hung over the next day.

I took Seroquel for years, in varying dosages as my psychiatrist played around with trying to find a dose that worke.

I can assure you that it has NO recreational use at all. What concerns me is that Seroquel is highly valued on the street for getting through the comedown from meth.

It is not unthinkable that he's getting meth in jail. If you have a way to pay for them, you'd be amazed at the amount and variety of drugs you can get in jail.

 

[detachingmother]

Hopefully the judge will order drug testing, as I have requested. That's for sure.

It took a whole heck of a lot of Seroquel to calm him after he was hospitalized last February for severe paranoia/delusions/psychosis/hallucinations. Can't remember how much, but I do remember thinking OH MY, that would knock out a horse.

His doctor prescribes this for him already, but when on Depakote, and in "normal" mode it does make him tired. But, never to the point of being hung over. His doctor actually wants him on Depakote, Seroquel, and Risperdal, but has changed it to Depakote after a bunch of back and forth. We know Depakote works as long as he stays away from "other" drugs.

With that said, I do know it knocks some people out for hours, but when he's manic and paranoid, which is even while sober most of the time now, it just calms him down enough to relax.

I have been worried about the Meth in the jail. I can always tell when he's on it. There's no mistaking it. But, who knows, maybe he was doing it sometime in the past 5 or 6 days. He will be in for more of a rude awakening if I catch wind of that.

 

[GoingNorth]

Well, the good news is that Meth is not physically addictive; meaning there is no physical withdrawal like you get with opioids or xanax or other benzos.

It is, however, extremely mentally addictive, and what drug users in Europe call "more-ish', meaning you costantly crave more of it. Part of that is chasing high, but part of it is trying to put off the comedown which can take a few days and is absolutely miserable mentally, combined with sheer physical misery from not having slept/eaten/showered for several days.

 

[detachingmother]

GN, I had to mark that as optimistic.

Even if it really wasn't, but it had that undertone of being optimistic.

Nothing's unthinkable in jail...nothing surprises me anymore.

 

[Childofmine]

DM, I agree about not providing money on the jail accounts. I used to do that early on. By the 7th, 8th and 9th times he had made the mistake of letting me know that they played a lot of cards in jail and used their commissary accounts to "gamble". I decided to stop. I thought I was providing him some extra food and provisions, only to find out he was betting it all.

I think it is perfectly okay that we keep on doing things until we finally decide to stop (if that's what we decide). We can only do what we can live with, and we are so fragile for so long.

This is the hardest stuff there is to navigate in the whole world, I believe.

Great to hear about your other kids. If you get a chance, please add a signature to your profile...that way responders have "your story" right there every time.

Again, glad you are here!

 

[detachingmother]

Child of MIne,
I thought I did post a signature. So, I went back to see if I did. It wll not post. Not sure why?

 

[InsaneCdn]

I thought I did post a signature. So, I went back to see if I did. It wll not post. Not sure why?

Did you make it visible? There's all sorts of privacy settings, and our great administrator seems to always err on the side of privacy (which is a good thing).

I went and looked at your profile and my own.
You typed in the information that would go in a signature, but it doesn't seem to be in the signature block? Go back to your profile and click on "signature" on the left hand side and see what is there.

 

[Childofmine]

DM, looks like it is working now (the signature!). Thank you!

 

[detachingmother]

Yup it worked COM.

Off to work I go. Going to new job in an hour. I am optimistic about going back into the "working" world. Maybe not so much about working for someone else, but fingers crossed here too that it will be a good fit.

Fingers crossed that psychotherapist friend reaches the jail Psychiatrist today.

While I don't love that son needs medications, he just does. So much is wrong with him now. And if that's the only reprieve and relief he will get, then that's what I want for him.

 

[InsaneCdn]

When the things that they actually want, match the things we know they actually need... it isn't hard to try to find ways to be supportive.

 

[detachingmother]

True...I feel more supportive now, because his wants are aligning with his health needs and what he now has to do to be a good father, and partner to child's mother. I am very adamant that he stand up and do what's right. If not....well, bye bye.

I'm not that optimistic here, since he's never changed or tried to change thus far, and I am still loving him from a distance...lol...well, hard to love closely as he's in the pokey again. But, I have always maintained phone call contact, as long as it's respectful, not asking for money, purely for emotional support and guidance and he's good with that...most the time. As soon as his manipulative behavior pokes out, bye bye.

I have seen people who are "rotten apples" have children and turn their lives around....part of me hopes this will be the case....part of me, absolutely does not believe it....

anywhoo. rambling again...work time....

 

[Sister's Keeper]

Detaching,

The seroquel thing is interesting. I didn't know that people used it on the street to come down from meth. If that is your son's purpose it is kind of funny considering his diagnosis.

I'm also in the camp of I won't send commisary money. I know that the prison food is crappy, but the stuff they buy on commisary is junk, too, so I wouldn't feel like I was improving nutrition any, really.

I know each jail works differently. The county jail my sister mostly resides in always has some sort of "job" available to earn commisary money. Kitchen, laundry, dishes, grounds, custodial, so she always manages, somehow.

...and, yes, there is always gambling and barter.

I wonder, if when your son was 1st jailed that they decided to hold off on medicating him until the drugs were out of his system to see how much of his psychosis/mania was drug induced and how much is mental illness? Now he is, probably, just a victim of, honestly, not the best or swiftest medical care.

If I can ask....do you attend any type of support group for the family of the mentally ill/addicts? I have found it very helpful in the past.

Nar-anon helped me a lot. You could look into your local chapter and/or your local NAMI chapter. It helps a lot to have a live support system.

 

[pigless in VA]

I could also visualize that he was driving the 9 other guys in his 20 x 20 foot cell crazy, so someone was more than happy to sell him his Seroquel to quiet him up. Because when he's in a manic state which is almost always, with paranoia and delusions, he's insufferable.

Here, man, have some Seroquel. Please! You need it more than I do.

 

[Ironbutterfly]

My late husband turned down a very lucrative job running the kitchen at a prison in far Southern IL right after he got out of the Army. (Before he went to cooking school).

On the third interview, they had him spend a half day "working" in their kitchen and husband got a look at how poor the quality of their food was, how poorly/dangerously it was handled, and how little the prisoners were given to eat, and refused the job on the spot.

Also, commissary doesn't sell much "real" food in most prisons, more snacks and junk food.

The closest you can get to real food is ramen and stuff like tinned sardines and the like, both loaded with fat and sodium, though sardines at least have some decent nutritonal value.

Even in the Army, with fluctuating availability of ingredients, a good cook could turn out tasty, nutritious food.

My son was always ordering the Ramen Noodles and Cinnamon rolls.

 

[detachingmother]

Detaching,
I wonder, if when your son was 1st jailed that they decided to hold off on medicating him until the drugs were out of his system to see how much of his psychosis/mania was drug induced and how much is mental illness? Now he is, probably, just a victim of, honestly, not the best or swiftest medical care.

If I can ask....do you attend any type of support group for the family of the mentally ill/addicts? I have found it very helpful in the past.

Nar-anon helped me a lot. You could look into your local chapter and/or your local NAMI chapter. It helps a lot to have a live support system.

He hasn't been on any drugs for a month, until he took seroquel yesterday. I briefly talked to him and his mindset is back to paranoia today. So, our talk was very brief.

I call it "I don't know which came first, the chicken or the egg?"

1. My mother had severe/acute psychosis/schizophrenia/paranoia with nasty hallucinations...she would literally see scary animals all over and all around her, as best as I can describe it, and scream...she saw them everywhere. In her closet, giant ape hands coming out of bedroom closet. She saw the wolf devils chasing her. She would seem normal sometimes too, and very smart---photographic memory and can draw anything.

She almost always thought someone was out to get her, and had the disposition of getting them before they got her. She was an "avid and prolific" shoplifter and bad check writer. She made her younger sister, who looked like her twin, do time in the county jail for her, and she too did her own time. --- absolutely dysfunctional.

She has been in TOTAL remission since about 1990. It was so strange. Looking back it was like that old scary mom died and a new one was born...I know how crazy this sounds, but it was like she started smoking pot, is the only thing I can think of, and she became a much more "normal" version of herself. She still smokes pot, and I liken her now to looking like a female Willie Nelson, however, she's been working in the field of mental health herself....yep, it's true. She is about to retire and is sick now with a few serious physical diseases.

So I believe my son is like her. This is one reason that I have so much faith in him making it. I've seen the nasty disease go into total remission.

2. The onset of schizophrenia, for the most part, starts to rear it's very ugly head at the beginning of young adulthood. I did see signs. And he did get worse around the time he became 17-19.

Gets tricky here, because this is also where he started doing dirty street drugs. Hence, which came first...chick or egg? I don't know.

Mom never did drugs early in life. She did start to self-medicate though down the road...around the age of 35- is where I remember her discovering Demerol, Valium, and a few other things. At least this was when I became aware of it. And, by then she was schizophrenic on her own, without illicit drug use. And the Demerol made her worse too and it took her awhile I think to figure it out...I was a kid, but I can look back and understand it now. She did Demerol for awhile, then marijuana came. I have drawn a few parallels here, but will leave it at that....

Mom spent time in a mental hospital called Lafayette. She was put on something but I can't remember and I do not talk to her about it anymore as when I do, she will go into some kind of denial mode. Not sure if that helped her or not, as I was very young, under 12. I do not think it did help, I Can hardly remember, but I do know it was shortly after that that the mental hospitals started closing. I love my mom, but let's just say, she was nightmarishly abusive. For years though now, I have completely forgiven her.

Son's docs do know the family history. When son starts in on a major episode... It has an almost PTSD sort of effect one me.

I also have to admit, youngest son, while he seems very well adapted, I don't know, I worry that he may end up "afflicted" too. So far, so good....

YES!!!! SK, I do think I need to go to Nara-non. Definitely. WHen I can afford it, I do go to a private therapist. She helps me with even day to day things. I need to go soon actually to something, I think a group would be helpful...