Advice needed - mother who is a difficult child

[Marguerite]

TryingHard, you said, "my brother gets to hear the updates from the sessions on what monsters we are for treating her the way we do, how my dad is horrible, how the world is against her and she is the only one who has it all together."

You both know what your mother is like - so why do you always instinctively beleive what she says someone else has said?

My best friend (the one I mentioned before, wth the toxic father) will collect "lame ducks" and try to help them. Sometimes they are lame for a reason. One 'friend' in particular became one of my online stalkers because she was jealous that my friend was friends with anyone else (ie me). And still, even though my friend finally learned how muc h she was being lied to, will still say, "Did you know X is true?"
I ask her, "Who told you that?"
She would say, "ex-friend told me her neighbour said so. She said her neighbour had told her how much she hates me."
Again I remind her, "So you would rather believe ex-friend, who you know to be a liar, then her neighbour who you used to believe was your friend?"

Your mother MAY be getting told these things by her therapist; but her therapist is limited by what she is told by your mother. "Your children did WHAT to you? That is appalling, they should be ashamed of themselves!"
Also, it's quite possible your mother is either only hearing what she wants to hear; or is making it all up when she talks to your brother. "My therapist told me I'm beautiful, talented, caring, compassionate and I don't deserve such horrible children. And my therapist also said I'm going to be the next man on the moon."
Any of this is possible. None of it is believable.

Your mother's therapist (assuming he/she even exists) is NOT your therapist or your brother's. Therefore anything she says is not designed to be specifically to your benefit. It is therefore not relevant.

The only therapist advice which IS relevant, is advice from your own therapists.

The part of you (and your brother) wanting a loving, caring mother is the child inside you who was abandoned and neglected because of her narcissism. You need to get back in touch with that child and be the mother for her that you never had. There is a meditation you can do where you as an adult go back and take that child by the hand and lead them out of that environment.

I think until you and your brother can do this, the child inside each of you will be begging for another chance to make peace with a woman who simply doesn't know how to be a mother.

Marg

 

[totoro]

I just posted "Am I stupid" which kind of touches on this. I have had limited contact with my Dad. I also lost my Mom at a very early age. She was very mentally ill. She was kind of like your Mom but unmedicated. Our last conversation was not very nice. Granted I was only 9, but that is my last memory of her. Her anger.
But I have realized it was hers. Her anger, not mine. I can't let it eat me up inside.
Now with my Father, if he wants to change things and TRY to change things and become my friend that is his choice and he needs to try.
Sometimes we can only do so much, we can put our hand out there but our parents have to willingly take it, we can't force them.
And don't ever compromise who you are to get them to take your hand.
Good luck with this.

 

[tryinghard]

Sorry Marg and Totoro I have been so busy I work this is the first chance I have had to post!

Marg,

I should have added more "color" to my comments but felt my post was already too long!

My brother and I get a kick out of my mom telling us what her thearpist tells her for a variety of reasons. First, for years she said she went to them but they told her she was the problem and that mad her angry and she never went back! Now (she says) she has found this one and LOVES him. He is the only one who understands her. My sister in law jokes about how
she would love to be a fly on the wall and just listen. I am sure it would be a hoot.

Yes, my brother is hurting. He is a fantastic guy with a great head on his shoulders and a deep sense of responsiblity for both my parents. He lives very close and is constantly taking care of both of them. The only two things I have told him is that he does not need to feel bad for what has occurred between me and my mom. I have told him his wedding my have been the catalist, but it was not the cause. Also, the way my mother treats my sister in law is HORRIBLE. My mother calls their home a few times a week and does things to get my brother upset. Once he is upset it ruins his time with sister in law. I do believe my brother has gone to thearpy and has used some of the techniques they have taught him to deal with our mom.

And you are right on...my mom does not have the ability to be the mother I wish she could be.


Totoro,

I read your post and I could relate. Thanks for your support!

I try my best everyday for my children to know how much I love them and am here for them.

 

[Nomad]

I am so very sorry. You have a lot on your plate...to be sure. There were certain things in your story that resonated with me. I guess the biggest one was that your mom says she has a bad headache problem. Do you think she is being honest when she says she has frequent headaches? I recall when I was a young woman, my aunt complained of near daily headaches and she often slept in a dark room for relief. We all thought she was "nuts." Then, when I got to be in my 30s...guess what? I got headaches/migraines. I went to doctors and got basically no relief. I took medications that made things worse. When those headaches/migraines started to come daily (and esp. when I had difficult child issues on top of it), I could get really depressed.

What helped me was getting on Topamax...a medication I love to hate. Topamax is FDA approved for the treatment of headaches/migraines. It really works. I just find it personally annoying because it causes memory/add type issues galore for me and many others. However, I just could NOT tolerate that pain any longer. Period. It was RUINING my life in every way possible. For depression, I have found the B vitamins to be a lifesaving tool.

I think if your mother was truly abusive (physically and/or verbally) you are NOT obligated to maintain a relationship with her. However, if it was more that she was "cool," and that she had unadressed pain issues...you might at least consider making an attempt to open the door. However, she is an adult and if she chooses not to take you up on your offer...it really is more her loss. In addition, if you open the door, but she is abusive to you...you can chose to SHUT IT.

I can also relate to your story, because I have not spoken with my father for many years. My father was physically and verbally abusive and even when I "called him on it" when I became an adult, he chose not change. It is his loss. Sometimes I worry about "what will happen when he dies." If this ends up your situation...you could ask a trusted "go between" to contact you if your mother becomes seriously ill, etc. I agree with the other posters, that you have to protect your own emotional wellbeing first.

Have you sought the advice of a professional counselor regarding this and the other hardships you are experiencing? in my humble opinion, you are on the top of the stress scale with a job change after many, many years, having a difficult child and the other things going on in your life. If needed...you might find someone who will work on a sliding scale...but please consider getting some help...this is a lot to process.

(hugs)

 

[Lothlorien]

Boy did I have a bit of PTSD reading your post. My biomom is not in the picture, but my Aunt raised me. I call her mom. She is bipolar. She would sleep for days if we had let her.

On any given day, my brother, sister in law, sister, neices or I are on her you-know-what list. You never know what will set her off. She can be the sweetest person one day and the next she is completely contradictory and can be set off very easily. There have been a few times in my life where I've cut off contact with her for months or a couple of years, including just before I got married too. She ended up coming to the wedding, after all.

When my brother got divorced, she finally got the two of them back together, but when they didn't get married "her way" she refused to go to the wedding.

The last time we had a big blow out, she bombarded me with emails that just spewed hate and meaness. I finally called her and let her have it. I told her that if she didn't get herself some help that she would never have contact with me or my family again, because I didn't deserve it and just wouldn't put up with it anymore. I had gotten her at the right time and she did go and get help. She is still suffering with a great deal of depression, but she's better than she was.

My relationship with her is strained, at best. I will never be as open with her the way I used to be, because I never know when she will turn something around and use it to be hurtful. She lives 1,000 miles away, so I don't have to deal with what my brother deals with, since he lives in the same town.

 

[Fran]

Your mom is ill. Her mental state is a question mark but it's obvious that something isn't right.
I agree with Sara Pa that she needs to have her medications re evaluated and weaned.
Your mom isn't going to change. I figure I'm polite but don't let her to close to my heart.
I wouldn't let her too close. Your expectation that she will act differently isn't going to happen.

 

[tryinghard]

Fran,

Yes you are right. My mother is very ill. I wish I could help her but I think at this point she has to help herself.

Nomad,

I think my mom did not have headaches, I think that was the easiest way for her to explain to me that she was depressed. Was she truly abusive...I guess that is what I am struggling with. My mother is sutlely abusive, constantly.....when she is told she has hurt someones feeling she says things like, "Well I am only be honest" or " We are family, family is suppose to stand by each other no matter what even if you don't like it". Oh I could go on and on.....it is such a complicated situation,

Lothlorein,

Yes that sounds like my mom. A LOT like my mom.....There were good days (10 percent of the time) and the others were difficult. It seems to have gotten worse as she is older.


I really feel bad for my mom. I know she is sick and I wish I could help. I have realized I can't make her better, nor can I take her actions and words anymore. That is a hard place for me to be. I am going to try and find a thearpist. I just don't know how in the world I am going to find the time....

 

[trinityroyal]

Was she truly abusive...I guess that is what I am struggling with. My mother is sutlely abusive, constantly.....when she is told she has hurt someones feeling she says things like, "Well I am only be honest" or " We are family, family is suppose to stand by each other no matter what even if you don't like it". Oh I could go on and on.....it is such a complicated situation,

Tryinghard,
This statement just hit me like a ton of bricks. These are EXACTLY the sort of mind-games that my difficult child-mother used to do to me. It IS abuse, do not have any doubt about that. Emotional abuse like that is so very hard to deal with because it's insidious and it's really hard not to get caught up in it.

Look at the statements for what they mean, not for the words she's using:
"I'm only being honest" -- I get to say mean and spiteful things whenever I want. If something needs to be said, there are softer and gentler ways of saying it. If the only result is hurt, then perhaps the best course is to keep quiet and not say it at all. Saying something cruel and then falling back on "I'm just being honest" is manipulative and spiteful.

"Family is supposed to stand by each other no matter what" -- no matter how badly I treat you, you're supposed to stand by me and be there for me and help me. Not acceptable.

You shouldn't have to put up with being treated that way by anyone.

Hugs for your hurting heart.

Trinity

 

[Lothlorien]

If you want to have a relationship with her, then you have to set guidelines with her. If she steps over those boundaries, you need to let her know. If those boundaries are not good enough for her, than it's in her court to not have the relationship to continue.

Trinity is right....being honest is one thing, but she needs to know the difference between being honest and just keeping your mouth shut. I have been known to be brutally honest, but I also know when it's not appropriate and hurtful. Sometimes brutally honest is only effective when it's asked for. If it's not asked for or not completely necessary, then keep your mouth shut.

If you want to have a relationship with your mom, you have to explain that to her.

 

[Marguerite]

My best friend whose father treated her so shamefully by constantly being mean about her weight (and even inviting visitors in to "see the fat girl having her bath") - he would respond to criticism (or hurt) with, "But I was only joking."

Her response (now) - "it was not funny."

Responses like that to 'justify' being cruel are actually further abuse, because in such a response is a defiant insistence that what they just said/did was right and any objection is mean-spirited and narrow-minded, as well as lacking a sense of humour. So instead of getting an apology of the abuser backing down, you get another serve of abuse on top.

Is it any wonder that people just take the abuse and don't fight back after a while? Or even begin to see themselves as at fault?

I say to my friend, I wonder what happened to her father in his childhood, to make him like this? Apparently his father was abusive to such an extent that his mother sent him away in his teens. He never talked about his father; my friend gleaned that info from her aunt. But his understanding of how to be a father was clearly twisted.

Marg

 

[ScentofCedar]

I don't know whether I already suggested these books or not, so excuse me if I have, okay?

The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans.

Self Esteem by McKay/Fanning

Shame and Grace, by someone I don't remember right now.

Verbal abuse, whether from a partner, a friend, an employer, or a parent, affects our spirits the same way. If we can learn to spot it, we can learn to counter its effects. If we can tune in to those negative tapes from our pasts, we can at least understand them to be meaningless, today. Once we get that, we can perform to our own expectations, instead of those imprinted in us by parents too sick, or too damaged themselves, to parent well.

Each of those books is available at the library, tryinghard.



Barbara

 

[Star*]

I'm sorry for those things you did not have, which you feel were important in life to you.

I went through the "you're worthless" business with my x and my son. I wasn't able to keep having ugliness hurled at me to tell me how worthless I was or how little I tried, or how I failed - so I walked away, got counseling with a therapist, got my self esteem in check and NOW I am able to stand up against anything. And I know that the ugliness while coming my way - really doesnt' get to stick in my brain.

And with that in mind I can tell you that those people can't hurt me anymore because I am secure within my own self. I no longer believe that I'm a piece of ****, worthless, and I would tell myself before that I wasn't - but it stuck. After therapy and soul searching? I think I could sit in a room with my x - and let him just roll out the ugliness and watch his mouth move but not hear a word he said. It wouldn't stick anymore. His opinion no longer counts in my life, and I don't measure myself any longer by others opinions of me.

THAT is what I think you would have to do and in the place you would need to be to continue a relationship with your very ill and very toxic Mom. Right now? I think it's become a way of life for you and you "accept" it - but you aren't OVER it. When what she says no longer counts and you are only around her becuase she's your Mom and you love her - THEN I think you could deal with it. Not now. You dont' have enough battle armor yet to not let her opinon count (not for real) in your lfe.

Hugs
Star