Katie will always be Katie. I've accepted that, I've made my peace with that. But that doesn't mean that there aren't times when her behavior, her warped way of thinking or whatever it is, gets to me. M has been out of work since probably November. Of course Katie only admitted this after a series of lies, as usual. I don't know how much time the HUD apartment give them to find work, but it is required that at least one adult in the household be working in order to keep your apartment. I imagine they aren't overly patient. I'm guessing it's likely 3 months at max. We covered xmas for the kids, also as usual, not because we realized that was what we were doing or we had planned to do so but because she just didn't have xmas for them. That makes me mad because there are numerous charities that would have helped her, I know, I help with 2 of them. She was just too lazy or too absorbed in herself to bother to sign the kids up for it. We didn't do so because at the time she was lying about 1. having bought xmas for the kids and 2. M working. Thanksgiving Katie and her biomom showed up stoned. I don't know about M because I was kept busy and he was avoiding everyone so I suspect he was as well. Biomom was on some heavy duty stuff. Couldn't follow conversation and had issues talking. Katie was too touchy / feely which is the exact opposite of her personality and her eyes gave her away. Now I have more than my fair share of experience with drugs, so I know stoned/messed up when I see it. I was having issues nailing down what they were on, though.....until talking with a few people at work and pretty sure given how the drug traffic in this area flows during holidays and their behavior they were on ecstasy. Katie showed up at xmas stoned, no doubt. Not ecstasy, could be a few things. Again M I'm unsure of because with his behavior, well, it's hard to tell and I didn't get close enough to really look at his eyes. Two major sips on Katie's part. I suspect drugs are eating up the cash flow. Now that M is not working there is less money for both drugs and essentials so now the kids do without again. Biomom is an alcoholic, has been for years. But her high was not alcohol. And given her personality the slide over to drugs would not be much of a slide, if you get my drift. I had wondered for a while if it was possible as it would be the perfect way for Katie to control her mom. Now I know. Kayla is deeply angry. Not typical teen attitude. Not even teen anger. This is a different anger that I recognize. It's not from neglect. That ticks her off the whole we go hungry 2-3 weeks out of the month thing and never have what we need, but this is on a totally different level. Katie has let Kayla venture out of her control for the first time ever when she started the whole sleep over thing with her friends. Not only did she let her slip out of her control, she was allowing Kayla to see how other families are, their relationships, how households are run, ect. Plus she has now her extended family as examples as well. Kayla sees somewhat normal parental boundaries for discipline ect via both sources. Katie isn't about boundaries, Katie is about control. I suspected something was up with the sudden "active parenting" thing. Somewhat because she does the same thing to me that biomom used to do and asks me some of the most stupid parenting questions I've ever heard about the stupidest things. Someone who has parented for at least a decade should've had it figured out, at least to some extent. So I paid close attention to what behaviors Katie was targeting. Now I can't see her at home but I can see her here and I have Kayla that has no issue in telling me at least some of what is going on at home. I noticed a pattern that suggest she is doing everything she can to keep Kayla in tight control. I don't mean due to difficult child behavior, Kayla is about as difficult child as my left foot, I'm talking to keep her quiet. Katie was so mad we found out about Kayla's friend's mother committing suicide, and me discovering she was a pedophile facing charges (repeat offender) that Kayla didn't have a social life for months outside of school. At the time katie told me it was because she didn't trust the parents......but that is bogus because Kayla is right back at those friends houses and Katie doesn't know any of the parents anymore than she did before. The woman doesn't even know their names for godsake. All 3 kids are under constant threat that if they say/do anything that might make Katie look bad they will not see us again. It has taken a long time, but I've gotten enough from all 3 of them to know this for certain. It doesn't stop them, Alex still slips he can't help it (he was my tip off this was going on), Kayla will just for spite, and Evan is just basically clueless and will blurt it out. Then suddenly it will be a longish time before we hear/see them, with the kids more nervous about how they're behaving the next time they come over. But Katie realizes that her control over Kayla is slipping away. Kayla knows right from wrong. We've made it clear to the kids we will always be there for them if they need us, that we are not like their parents both in actions and in words. Kayla is not a little kid that can be lied to and just accept it because her parents told her so. Katie is trying to reign Kayla in before she tells all, making her either too afraid to tell or feel too guilty over her mother "dying" to tell. If extreme punishment doesn't work, then she uses bribery. (the cell phone and tablet) Bribery is hard to do when you can't keep money in your pocket. And I've noticed lately the bribery only makes Kayla even more angry. She sees it for what it is. I haven't let Katie shop my pantry in months. Kayla knows we worked with her mother on how to shop. She gets more than enough food stamps to make it through the month. It's no one's fault but the parents that they rarely make it past the first week. (likely using them to buy drugs which is very popular in their complex) I'm not going to enable her to use her food stamps for other things. They have twice as much (more with food stamps) income as I do with the 2 disability checks coming in. This doesn't mean that if Kayla is in need of tooth paste, deodorant or whatnot that Nana doesn't slip them to her. The kid has to go to school. Nichole alerted me to the fact that Katie suddenly wants her drivers license (or so she says, could just be cuz she thinks we want to hear it). First thing that popped into Nichole's head is that Katie is preparing to run again. I dunno. I've kept watch on arrests/charges and so far their names have not turned up. Of course that doesn't mean cps isn't either watching them or has an open investigation going on. Actually, I'd be surprised if there isn't as it would be usual and the longest period of time without one in the kids lives. Katie is slipping up. Kayla has a deep seeded anger that has finally risen to the surface. If M doesn't find a job soon they will be evicted. (Katie will never work) And I am just waiting. Giving Katie plenty of rope to hang herself this time. No jumping the gun for me. If it is going to be me going to cps or police, then by darn they will have enough they will have no choice but to act. There will be proof that can't be ignored. I know there is some god horrid stuff going on behind closed doors, perhaps even worse than I can imagine (and I'm not naive by a long shot). It goes beyond neglect and physical abuse/control and drug use. If slipped information as well as behaviors indicate what they seem to indicate......and perhaps I'm just a major pessimist but I believe it's worse than even that....... Katie and M, and likely biomom as well (accessory if nothing else) will all find themselves supported by the state for many years. There is no saving Katie. But if we're careful, we might just save those kids.