am I doing the right thing.....

wintak

New Member
Sounds like you are doing all that you can at this point. Interesting that he's doing ok in school...mine does, too which confounds the "specialists"
Hope you are able to find some serious help, soon
 

Marguerite

Active Member
Jan, if/when I say that sometimes what we do for our kids is wrong, I mean it is wrong for that child. It is not intended as criticism, in fact parents often have been doing their utmost to be consistent, firm disciplinarians. With any other child, it would give a great result. But as you have already found out (and we did too, the same hard way!) the expected "good parenting" methods can seem to make some kids worse. Not your fault.

When I commented that someone has been perhaps treating your son overly harshly, I did not necessarily mean you guys. In our case, it has often been teachers at school whose "putting in their oar" that has undermined a lot of good progress we were making as parents. Also in our case, family members and friends at times try to interfere especially when they think we are not watching them. It's something that drives me nuts, when I leave difficult child 3 in a room with an otherwise intelligent adult family member, who knows (because we have told them) how NOT to handle difficult child 3, and they go do it anyway, because "obviously the parents are just not strict enough". It's as if these idiot adults believe that they will apply discipline A and instantly the child will make miraculous behavioural progress, at which point the friend/family member can say to us, "I know you said not to but I just knew you were wrong so I did it my way and look what a marvellous result I got. Now, here's how to do it for yourself, I will magnanimously help you..."

What generally happens is not so rosy as the well-meaning person expects. They then get resentful when their "I am trying to do something nice as a surprise" backfires badly. And then I am asked to make my child apologise for what often turns out (from his perspective) to have been extreme provocation or teasing. "He's got to learn to take being teased" is what I then get told - but for an Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kid, being teased by an adult is a very bad thing, if they don't understand. We spent years working carefully to avoid mixed messages. When giving directions or answering questions we learned to say, "You're correct," and not "you're right," because "right means "not left" to a difficult child who can only accept a single meaning to a term. An adult trying to make a joke out if it - it might be funny for a kid who enjoys puns, but for some kids, it is infuriating because the adult, in trying to play a game, seems to the child to be baiting him and trying to upset him. So the child obliges by getting upset. It can take so long to explain it to the transgressing adult, that often I don't try, I just limit their contact with my child as much as I can.

And it's not just the fully Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids who find this a problem - when easy child 2/difficult child 2 was about 6 years old, she was reading a story to her 4 yo cousin. They were snuggled in cousin's bed under the blankets. Cousin's mum came in and said, "Get out of that bed and pull the covers up! You are clothed, it is the middle of the day. Do not climb under the blankets!"
She then left the room. easy child 2/difficult child 2 made the bed and the two girls got back ON the bed and easy child 2/difficult child 2 continued to read to her cousin. Aunty came back into the room. "You are a naughty girl, you are deliberately being defiant! I told you to get out of the bedroom! Beds are for sleeping in, not reading books. Go out to the couch, that's where you should be. And don't try to find a way to be disobedient again!"
She then came and tackled me about it. I said, "You told them to get out from under the blankets. They did that. You didn't say wanted them out of the room." With small children, as well as some children with social deficits or communication issues, you MUST be specific and concise.

This is typical of the literal-mindedness of these kids. The ADHD kids as well as the Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids. And some others.

Of course, I was told that no wonder my child was learning to split hairs and be defiant, if I always made excuses like that. But over the years I have watched this woman parent her kids - she doesn't know how to be consistent. But her girls have turned out okay, because they are primarily PCs. She has some spectacular fights with her oldest because of her inconsistency, I stay out of it and do not try to advise because I know my advice is not wanted. I also know nothing I say will make any difference.

All I'm saying - some kids, for whatever reason, have a very neat, intelligent, ordered and logical mind. But if they lack sufficient social understanding (and social rules can be very complex) they will be learning the right way to behave by imitating their role models. They will also apply that ordered and logical mind to their understanding of the rules, as they see them. They also can have a much greater capacity for stubbornness than any parent I know. It can become the irresistible force meeting the immovable object. When it becomes a battle of wills, you will find you have lost the war. These kids are STRONG!

It works better if you lead and deflect, rather than pull the "I am the adult, you are the child" routine. I found when I became my son's facilitator and stopped trying to be the authority figure, I ended up being given more authority - by him. And once he has given me authority over him, I can do far more. Over time he is learning to accept authority over him, from others. Such as teachers, other adults in authority. Of course he has always respected obvious authority figures - those in uniform are publicly branded as having authority where their uniform gives it to them.

I like what you say that he is contrite when he calms down. That is a good time to try to teach him, and it sounds like you are doing that. He sounds like a good kid at heart, but with perhaps impulse control issues as well as some social deficits, in some areas. They do learn and adapt, but often take longer and need to learn social rules a different way.

A lot of this is conjecture - without a diagnosis we can't do much else. It must be so frustrating for you to not be able to get a better idea of what is going on.

difficult child 3 is better than that now, but we've had to learn a different way of managing him. We did a good job with easy child - she is amazing. So it's not us. But the parenting methods we used for easy child, were absolutely the worst we could do with difficult child 3.

So I am not meaning to seem critical of you. Just saying - somehow in this kid's head, things are not working as they should, in some small areas. And you've been trying to be the best parent you can be, for years. However, something is still not right and your efforts are just not working. That is not parental neglect in any way. If anyone says it is, they are talking out the other end. But if you continue to try what is not working and expect a different result - that is the definition of insanity. It will also drive you nuts! Again, I speak from personal experience, I did what you have been doing. Now, a lot of what you are doing is right. But somewhere in there, something isn't, not for this child. There is something else going on, and it seems to me you are trying to control and discipline some aspect of him that cannot be controlled or disciplined, and the result is extreme frustration and anxiety in him, which is ramping up the problem. In an otherwise very bright child, it is very difficult to reconcile that there could be something in him like this. It makes it even more difficult to identify the specific area causing the problem.

A diagnosis would help a great deal, you already know that. I do 'get' the expense side of things. I worry though, that you have people who want to medicate him, but still won't give a diagnosis. I do not think medications should be given without a diagnosis. Even if they just say, "ADHD" which you can have with other things, and the medications are tried and they help - that pretty much confirms the ADHD. But it may not be the whole picture. However, it would be a start.

You've had a really rough time by the sounds of it.

Marg
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
In spite of seeing psychologists, I still think he needs to see a neuropsychologist, but if he can't, can you take him to see a Psychiatrist? So far his psychologists have been focused on behavioral therapy. Often that does not work with our kids. I would jump a step above a psychologist and see the psychiatrist instead. Your insurance will probably cover that.

This is not your average eleven year old boy. The verbal abuse is not normal. The inability to hold together if he doesn't do well in a game is not normal. His sensory issues are not normal. This does not mean that he CAN'T be more appropriate. But he needs more help than he got. Yes, you tried to do all you could and not one of those professionals that you put your faith in ever tested him to see what issues may be causing his behaviors. it is not your fault; it is their fault.




Good luck, whatever you decide to do. :)
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
Hmmm...

You've already been through the therapy rounds more than once. And as you say, the costs add up.

Maybe you could try looking at some non-technical "diagnoses" for your next layer. These will NOT be the whole answer, but may peel back one or more layers so you can get to the bottom of things.

I'd be looking for fatigue - mental, physical, emotional, neuro-motor, anything... Fatigue always generates behavior problems - even in PCs - its just that difficult children react even more poorly to fatigue. The good news is that most of this research you can begin yourself, and the rest should be fairly easily accessible and not outrageously expensive...

Wondering if just maybe, he behaves better over the holidays and/or (maybe) on weekends? If so, the issues will be more specific to school tasks and school life - just one more factor to note in your research.

How much sleep does he get? Is he hard to wake in the morning? How long does it take him to fall asleep at night? Are his sleep routines consistent (bedtime and wake-time have a fair consistency, and exceptions are within 1.5 hours of "normal")? Does he have a TV in his room? A computer? A cell-phone? Computer games? Anything that would keep him up at night? Anything else going on at home that might keep him awake?
Things to watch for:
- falling asleep in less than 10 minutes, frequently
- difficult to wake in the morning
- difficulty staying asleep
- restless sleep
- dark circles under the eyes
=> if you're seeing these things... start with the family doctor and ask for bloodwork related to fatigue... iron, thyroid, calcium, etc.
=> if inconsistency exists, try to establish more routine
=> if difficult to wake, try an earlier bed-time or later start to the day

Does he follow verbal instructions well? Does it make a difference if he is in a quiet or noisy environment? How is his speaking - does he pronounce things clearly, or sometimes has trouble wrapping his tongue around certain words? Normal vocabulary? Started speaking "late"? Any of these would support a screening by an Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) (speech-language pathologist). In particular, their feedback can rule out specific issues, and/or raise flags. SPECIFICALLY ask about testing for auditory discrimination - this is a newer test set, which looks for the difference in "listening ability" in noisy vs. quiet environments... most classrooms are noisy! Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) issues can be supported in school - for some things, by therapy, for others, by technology (listening systems, for example). If these problems exist, then the child is likely expending significantly more mental energy than his peers, to try to hold it together at school. Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) screenings, at least here, take about 2 hours - plus report-writing time - so not highly expensive. Most schools have Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) resources, but not usually available to "older kids" and only for extreme cases - which your child is probably NOT (or you'd already know and/or school would have caught it much earlier...)

Is he "sensitive" about stuff? like, food (textures, smells), his clothes (tags, seams, kinds of fabrics), water temperature, noise, activity, etc.? How is his pencil-grip - does he write well? or is that "workable" but a struggle? How long did it take him to learn to tie shoes? ride a bike? Does he avoid clothes with buttons? Does it take him extra time to get dressed? These kinds of issues would call for an Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation (occupational therapy) - in these parts, that should be about 4 hours of testing and a couple of hours for writing the report... so total cost should be in the 3-digit figures. The Occupational Therapist (OT) would be looking for "sensory issues" and/or motor-development issues. OTs cannot provide a diagnosis, but their input is invaluable in helping others make their diagnosis, AND the fact that the Occupational Therapist (OT) documents issues means others will take note as well. AND the Occupational Therapist (OT) has therapies that can help. (we paid for this - and are paying for an updated re-test several years later - its been worth it)

If these three strategies turn up issues, then you have NEW DATA to take to the next psychiatrist/therapist/pediatrician/whoever else... which can help in coming up with a different course of action. Even if all of these come back as "clear - no issues", you STILL have "new data" to take with you... because you at least know what the problem "is not".
 
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