Andre is going to court on Tuesday

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by ChefPaula1965, May 16, 2008.

  1. ChefPaula1965

    ChefPaula1965 Oh my aching back!!

    Well, the day is soon coming when Andre has to go to court to face the charges he got when he was found driving his bicycle drunk... and of course when they brought the K9 they found drugs on him.. He will be tried as an adult... I don't know if the check kiting charges will have caught up with him yet by then...
    Just need thoughts as I deal with my multiple personality disorder...
    your know the one says.... be stoic ... be strong... don't rescue... don't crumble.. this is not your problem... he needs to face the consequences for his actions
    and the other one says..
    OMG, my baby is going to be charged as an adult and may face adult jail time.. he is on the street and homeless... I need to rescue him... maybe I did something wrong raising him.. maybe if I help him one more time he will turn out ok... maybe... my poooooor baby!!!
    Well anyway... as long as the second personality doesn't show up AT ALL while I talk to Andre, I should be pretty good... and as long as I quiet the "mommy heart" personality and obey the brain.... the one that knows all the hardships, all the blood sweat and tears endured because of this person.. I will be ok...
    Mommy heart GET ON THE BACK BURNER !!!! :please:
  2. everywoman

    everywoman Active Member

    It is so hard to watch them face the consequences of their actions, but I have learned that is the only way they will learn. Hugs to your mommy heart and a cheer for your warrior brain.
  3. Star*

    Star* call 911

    :clubbing:OBEY THE BRAIN but find a way to nurture your Mom heart without having the brain kick your arse.

    I know EXACTLY how you feel. And maybe it would be different if for their entire lives we haven't had to advocate for them with the rest of the world to have them get services they need because they really are different. Yet when they get older we're told to back off and obey the brain.

    It's a trip to hell for sure. Paula - Andre will ALWAYS be your son, your baby and the part of you that keeps that alive remembers his sweet nature and what you know deep down inside he is. The part that at this point in his life you need to let go of isn't fair, and it leaves us with a huge hole.

    I saw a man the other day - he was 40 years old and looked to be about late 50's early 60's. He was homeless, old shoes, old clothes, hair cut, bad teeth and somewhat oblivious to his surroundings. I asked him how he was doing and he said "I'm doing it." I asked him if he had a place to go and he replied "Nope My Momma done kicked me out da house." I asked him "What did she do that for?" and he said "I guess she don't feel like she has to take care of me no more." I kinda chuckled and said "Well how old ARE you?" and he said proudly "FORTY." I asked if he had a job, place to go, etc. He answered nope to every question - then said "I guess I'm on my own finally."

    I didn't know whether to hand him a $5.00 for cigarettes and a soda or just walk away and keep him too in my prayers, but what struck me as I was walking away was his ability to bounce RIGHT into the next conversation with a young man and not let others see he was affected or wasn't affected at ALL due to his level of intelligence. Walking away I felt a lump in my throat and made a mad dash for the door - "THAT (inhale and bite lip) could be Dude someday."

    So I know what you mean when the Mommy part says "HE's my baby, homeless, being charged as an adult (at 18 yes), and worried sick second guessing all you've done up to now.

    You did the best job you could.
    Ultimately Andre is responsible for his own person.
    It's not like you haven't tried to help him 100 times.
    And even being your baby doesn't give him a get outta jail free card - despite his ability to get along in the world.

    YOU HAVE BEEN A TERRIFIC MOM - don't doubt that ever. EVER!

    Andre is a Terrific Kid - he just has terrific problems that make him less than desirable to the rest of the world at times. Know that when he is TIRED of being like he is - he'll make a change and he will HAVE to do it - without his mom.

    At that thought I agree - It inhales violently to be the Mom. Mostly because I really would join you and do what made me feel better - but by looking at other's examples and wisdom here that have been where you are and know what you are going through and what you yet are to endure - be wise and obey the brain.

    Hugs - Understanding - Love - Patience - Strength - Wisdom - and more hugs

  4. ChefPaula1965

    ChefPaula1965 Oh my aching back!!

    Thank you so much for your responses,
    Star, you are so right ... I am working on listening to my brain. It is all the more important because when he is NOT doing what he is supposed to do he is a danger to Mo... it is the turn of the "litlles" for me to concentrate on... so many times, my time and attention were so tied up in Andreisms that they had to be on the back burner.....
    My brain knows that I have parented Andre and protected him as much as I can.... But Andre and I have a type of Kidred spirit... he "gets me" a lot more than my husband does... and more than the "littles" do....
    I will stay strong.... there is nothing that I can do for this court date.. nothing.. nothing.... and I must portray that to Andre when I speak with him... It is hard for me to hide my emotions from Andre when we are talking on the phone and he knows how to not only push my buttons but also how to turn my knobs!!!
    I just pray for peace for myself as I long to mother my child and protect him and advocate for him... and though he will deserve what he gets in court it will be a hard pill for me to swallow..........
    Does that make any sense??
  5. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Paula...I understand exactly what you mean. I feel so connected on a deep level to Cory. Almost like we are the same person but years apart...Know what I mean?? I hate that about It makes it so much harder to detach.

    I have sat in way too many courtrooms watching him go before judges in my lifetime. I hope this week is the last time but I am not holding my breath. I know without a shadow of a doubt that if he ends up in court again he will go to prison. I do believe he believes them this time so maybe that will make a difference to him. Dunno.

    With Andre's age and the charges he has on him, I wouldnt worry to awful much. Even if the check charges get there too, they are all misdemeanors and probably all they will do is stick him on probation and restitution. If they give him any active time it will most likely be waived unless he really messes up.

    I just wish these kids would stop messing up before the law had to come down so extremely hard on them.
  6. ChefPaula1965

    ChefPaula1965 Oh my aching back!!

    I was just reading up on some information about ODD, CD and now the adult form :Antisocial personality disorder
    This is SO my son....
    Diagnostic criteria
    Three or more of the following are required:[1]
    1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest.
    2. Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
    3. Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
    4. Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
    5. Reckless disregard for safety of self or others
    6. Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations
    7. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.
    The antisocial behavior must not occur exclusively during an episode of Schizophrenia or a Manic Episode.[3]
    Common characteristics of people with antisocial personality disorder include:[citation needed]
    • Persistent lying or stealing
    • Recurring difficulties with the law
    • Tendency to violate the rights and boundaries of others (property, physical, sexual, emotional, legal)
    • Substance abuse
    • Aggressive, often violent behavior; prone to getting involved in fights
    • A persistent agitated or depressed feeling (dysphoria)
    • Inability to tolerate boredom
    • Disregard for the safety of self or others
    • A childhood diagnosis of conduct disorders
    • Lack of remorse, related to hurting others
    • Superficial charm
    • Impulsiveness
    • A sense of extreme entitlement
    • Inability to make or keep friends
    • Recklessness, impulsivity[4][5]
    • People with a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder often experience difficulties with authority figures.[6]
    Wow.... :9-07tears:
  7. ChefPaula1965

    ChefPaula1965 Oh my aching back!!

    Janet, actually Andre says (and so does my @#@#%$ mother) that he also had 2 felonies.. not sure what these were for.... I think he had enough of the drugs on him that he got stuck with- intent to sell?? not so sure...........
  8. Star*

    Star* call 911


    Dudes bio-dad is a sociopath. I have advocated for years with therapy and placements, and medicines and reading and all to help him as MUCH as possible to literally change the map in his head and NOT genetically turn into a sociopath.

    The sadest day I had was when the psychiatrist said "Lock your door at night when you sleep - I fear for your safety, and I fear Dude is quickly becoming ASPD - which is a few years and behaviors from turning truly like his biofather." Disappointed and heartbroken isn't the word.

    But - there is always hope - and I am ever hopeful.

    And I get the kindred spirit - everyone thinks it's why Dude and I are like those turnpike vending machine black and white scotty magnet dogs. For me - DF gets me better than anyone, but on some things Dude almost gives me glimmers that I've done my job and well.

    I hear ya.

    (I guess you didn't know it but Dude and Cory are twins) lol.

    Really brothas from different Mothas.
  9. ChefPaula1965

    ChefPaula1965 Oh my aching back!!

    I hear ya on the borthas from different mothas...
  10. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It


    YOU are a great mom. Grandma is NOT a great grandma. SHE has doen all she can to help Andre to becope ASPD, which I know you have feared would be the outcome for a long time.

    Sending hugs and strength to help you remain focused on the littles. They truly DO need you, and any $$$ you spend on Andre will end up helping him go do as he pleases (more trouble, most likely). So take that $$ and strengthen your bond with the littles, go get ice cream cones, get their bikes in shape for this year, buy a little kite and go to a park, play a game, whatever.


  11. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Paula...Cory carries a diagnosis of personality disorder not otherwise specified with antisocial traits. I cant say he is a true sociopath yet because he does have some redeeming qualities that do keep him from quite crossing that line. Having said that...I do know what it is like to hear those words and cringe.

    Heck...I bawled my eyes out when I first got my diagnosis of borderline personality disorder for myself! I just didnt want to accept that I could have something that "other people" would consider so scary! I have come to accept it and work on that diagnosis and use it to see where my behaviors come from and try to change them.

    If Andre has felonies...well...he will have to face the music. It really depends on his attitude and how he decides to plea. Things can go bad or they can still stick him on probation...which would be the probable outcome here.
  12. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    I hope that Andre will be safe. I hope that he will get probation, but it doesn't sound good. The courts seem to feel that the appropriate treatment for Antisocial and Sociopath is jail.

    I like to think that there is a special place in hell for people like his grandma, who bring these troubled people into harm's way then claim ignorance. You know she's not going to spend a moment's worry on how this could possibly turn out better for him. She'll just cry foul that he's not being treated fairly. Welcome to the real world, grandma. It catches up eventually.

    Andre's so young. I hope that he will be ok.
  13. WhymeMom?

    WhymeMom? No real answers to life..

    I will be thinking of you and Andre on Tuesday. Hope things go as well as can be expected given his situation.
  14. ChefPaula1965

    ChefPaula1965 Oh my aching back!!

    Thank you so much all of you for your thoughts...... and concerns....
    Andre's Grandma chooses to blame me for my sister's mistreatment of her children..
    it's because "Paula was so hyper and E did not have her space and Paula drove her nuts".... E is so mean to her children.. I would call it cruel......... I grew up with- E being extremely cruel to me... really I have some stories that would blow your minds!!
    But , anyway , all this just to say that Andre's Grandma.. has ALWAYS blamed my dad and me for every one else's problems..
    ** I also am convinced that she has a lot to do with Andre's diagnosis ... she effectively taught him... "if you think mom and step dad are being mean.. call me and I will fix it..." fact is my H is the only father Andre ever had... his bio is a rapist.... ok? But Andre was told by my mom and another my sister E and another sister B that he did not need to obey my h because he was not his "real father" and caused MUCH dissorder in our house because of that... When I backed H up with- Andre's treatment Andre was told that we were being completely unreasonable... that we were bad parents .... etc etc... the kid was told this from the time he was only 6...........
    Andre did not even have a chance of a normal relationship with- h.... or me for that matter........ nor were we able to hold him accountable for anything since his aunties and grandmother @#$%@$^#$^#%^%& always provider a "way of escape" and condoning of his rebelious ways.........
    Andre was born with- issues and was ODD even before I met H ..... but all they ever saw was horrible parenting......... they undid everthing H and I were trying to accomplish with Andre.......... Truly this makes me furious...:mad: I know that Andre already had problems, but I seriously believe that we could have helped him have a better life and help him learn how to make better decisions.. yet I am the one blamed for his issues........... This is infuriating.!!!!!!!!!!!
    Thanks for listening.