Angel's in crisis - I'm scared

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by helpangel, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. helpangel

    helpangel Active Member

    This thread could get gross so weak stomachs might want to skip this one.

    When had Angel at GI doctor Thursday for routine appointment. he wanted her admitted for severe constipation. This has been an ongoing problem for almost 10 years; she has been hospitalized for this 4 times and gone into the OR twice for it, lost count of ER visits over this long ago. Takes 2 ducolax, 2 pericolace, high fiber diet and miralax in anything I can hide it in daily.

    Angel didn't want to go to hospital and she is 17yo so can deny medical treatment in my state. I pointed out with her having medicaid this state can't really afford $25,000 for this kid to sh*t and she doesn't want to go - legally I can't make her. He prescribed magnesium citrate which is same thing ER prescribes when determines we are doing this at home.

    She stuck a straw in the bottle and drank it like a champ - this stuff tastes like a mixture of goat spit & ground up urinal cakes with a hint of grape. Now comes the scary part this stuff has always worked within 24 hours in the past. We are at the 23 hour mark now. Put 3 calls into GI's service (who is going to tell me go to ER) at his hospital which is 40 minutes away and I have to go thru a bad area to get to. Van is 17yo and on its last leg.

    I'm no sooner going to get on the road this stuff is going to kick in so I suggested a diaper she said she would feed it to me if I tried. So the hospital GI doctor is out of is 40 minutes away and the other (that I will get torn a new one for going to and I swore I would never use again) is less then 2 miles from my house.

    UGH I started this post looking for some advise but the only thing to do is get the monster to hospital and when she doesn't want to go in stay in parking lot till her bowel explodes, then when dying they will allow me to have a say in whether she gets admitted or not. Think I will just stay here and call an ambulance when that happens GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

    Sorry I turned this into a vent - its hard not to vent when just trying to help a person who wants you to get your nose out of their business and get your own life when they are my life.
  2. keista

    keista New Member

    ((((HUGS)))) I'll be praying she decides to go sooner rather than later.
  3. crazymama30

    crazymama30 Active Member

    would it be worth it to throw a towel on the car seat, and head to the good hospital? As long as you have a phone to call 911 if needed, it might be worth the risk? Maybe? I hope this goes well, I would be scared and frustrated too.
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Are you SURE it is working for her? I just ask because (blush) it does not work for me. Nothing does. In order for me to have a colonoscopy, I have to just eat clear liquids for a week or so because even enemas don't work. And I'm TRYING. Maybe one of her medications is stopping her up so much that she CAN'T go, even with the "delicious" drink (puke)!
  5. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator

    I'd call 911 and let the ambulance crew transport (and fight with her).
  6. Marcie Mac

    Marcie Mac Just Plain Ole Tired

    You know, a few months ago I had a colonostophy and drank that stuff and absolutely NOTHING came out the other end - I was in such horrible pain SO took me to the ER - turned out I had a severe blockage where some of my colon was removed (along with my tubes, overies, appendex and part of the bowel because the blockage had been going on for a while and it was damaging my other organs. Had I waited another 24 hours to go it would all have been over for me. I had acute diverticilutis which normally you get when you are older, however, doctor said people of all ages are getting it due to not enough fiber and too much junk food.

    I would definately take her to the hospital. To ease my symptoms prior, I was on a soft diet and NO FIBER what so ever. If she does have a blockage, you are just piling lots of fiber on whats there already

  7. helpangel

    helpangel Active Member

    Thanks for letting me growl everyone. No point calling an ambulance if she won't get in it, or taking her to hospital as long as she says NO they won't touch her.

    I think we have attacked this from the mouth end as much as we should because there is liquid behind the plug. Good sign laxatives are working. She has agreed to sit in a couple inches of bathwater this has worked in the past, just end up draining and cleaning the tub about 20 times. It's gonna be a long night as I will be weighing any chunks I find (gag sorry); I forgot in first post she weighed in 14 Lbs. heavier at GI then did 3 weeks ago at Endo - same scale/ office. What the heck is wrong with me? the stench in this house topic of discussion and I'm sitting here eating.
  8. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am so very very sorry you are dealing wth this. Sadly, given the laws in your state you have few choices. I know you worry about her but you really are going to have to let her handle this. It hoovers, but it is reality.

    Depending on what you want to do, I would be super tempted to make HER weigh everything and deal with everything (and if she doesn't clean the tub if she goes in there you put the chunks on her bed NOT in a container= gross but HER lesson to learn.) and if she gets to the point of 911/serious danger, then you go to the court and file for guardianship as she is incompetent to take care of herself. Don't know f you would win, but it might scare her enough to make her responsible for herself. Don't threaten this or even mention it to ANYONE unless you will follow through all the way. Don't let ehr talk you out of it is you decide to tell her you are doing this.

    Sometimes the ONLY way a person iwll learn is through horrible pain. If she won't go to the ER/hospital, then she has to sit in the pain. I woudl do NOTHING to make her comfortable. Not hot rice bags, not cleaning up after her (and if I did my kids know they would regret it at that age unless they were not capable of cleaining it, which they were by age ten), not sympathizing or even letting her pick what tv show to watch.

    This truly is something you are powerless over. Since she has the power, she has the responsibility. ALL of it, including the clean up (and her phone, computer, anything electronic, makeup, money, etc... would be gone until it was cleaned up properly). Part of this is because she is basically an adult and that is part of being an adult - cleaning up your mess. So having mom make it easier isn't helping her. Helps you because she doesn't have so many meltdowns, but honestly you cannot control when an infant or toddler poops, so you sure cannot control when a 17yo does.

    If you want to go from the other end, I have a suggestion. A few years back my daughter suddenly got excruciating pain and the docs thought many things, incl twisted ovary. Finally after ultrasounds and an MRI that showed nothing, they took an xray and saw a huge backup that had gone to blockage. Nothing that went in by mouth did anything, including that big gallon of stuff given before a colonoscopy. After ten days of this horrible pain, the pediatrician put her into the hospital and did a milk and molasses enema. One jar of molasses (I think 12 oz or whatever the standard size is) warmed up, then that jar filled iwth whole milk (what the hospital had, I don't know if skim or 2% would work) warmed up, mixed together and given as an enema in small amounts as she could tolerate it. She would go, get more of the enema, wait, go and around and around we went. By morning she was cleaned out and felt MUCH better. We had tried OTC enemas and some rx ones and NONE did anything at all.

    there is also an injectable medicine called relistor. I had an rx for this bc I am a pain mgmt patient and after one medicine change my body just stopped going at all. Relistor is a shot you give yourself - very easy to do - and it causes you to go. BIG TIME GO. It is very dramatic when it starts - you pretty much need to be close to a bathroom when you do the shot and stay there because in about five min it is coming out. I had bad cramping iwth it, but that is just how it is when you are that backed up. I think it may also be availible in pill form but I don't know. I know it is often used for opiate related constipation, but I also know people who are not on opiates hwo have had excellent results with it helping.

    Of course this will do NOTHING good if it is a true blockage, but if it is more constipation that can't move for some reason, then it mght help. Would be worth asking a doctor about for use maybe every week if she hasn't had a poop? Just to help prevent future blockages?

    Anyway, right now the milk and molasses enema might be your best home remedy. It apparently was the home remedy of the mom of one of the really old docs around here, and the younger docs ALL use it for blockages before they go to medications because it is more gentle than most medications they would give and they get better results with less cramping.

    I really am sorry she refused the ER. Hopefully if you can make this refusal as miserable as possible by not eltting her be pampered or get out of chres, etc... (cause if she is really sick then she needs to go to the ER, right?), then in the future seh won't take such stupid risks with her health and life by ignoring the GI dr's orders. I have lived this, and it is miserable, but it is the only way to get a long term solution. They will tell you that you don't love them or care about them. That is manipulation. Reality is that you do, and you are being tough BECAUSE you love them and watn they to feel enough pain to learn not to do this again and to follow the dr's advice/instructions when given.

    I really hope this am finds you with a difficult child in the hospital getting the help she needs and with-o her having harmed herself by allowing her bowels to rupture. WHY do they think 17yos are capable of sound medical decisions? I am glad I don't live where you do. My kids would need a judge to say they could refuse - for EACH decision. But the 2 I have at home are PCs, so probably this won't be a problem. they hope.
  9. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    They gave me something called lactalose for constipation and it doesnt work worth a darn. I think I am going to try that molasses stuff. I wonder if drinking it would Being on pain medications pretty much makes you stop up like concrete. I could probably lose 15 pounds in a day.
  10. Hope2

    Hope2 bluemoon

    Don't know if this will youngest grandson go so plugged up it was making him wet himself from the pressure the doctor told my daughter to mix baby prunes and cool whip ..and it worked like a charm...sending hugs..
  11. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Gosh, I am certainly no expert in this field. All I can do is send hugs.
    I also agree that pain is a good teacher. Let's hope she's ready to learn.
  12. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Janet, DON"T drink the molasses/milk. Molasses has iron and will plug you up. I don't know why it works in an enema, I just know it did when nothing else did. But they warned us to not have J eat/drink it because the iron can plug you up. Eating prunes will help, miralax might help, and even OTC laxatives. If you have not tried fiber, look for psyllium fiber. Walmat sells bottles of it in either tablet or capsule form. Go for the capsule because the tablets get stuck in your throat sometimes. You MUST drink lots of liquid though. I find these work better than benefiber or metamucil type fiber. You want psyllium because it will not ferment and add gas and cramping to you gut. It is the ONLY fiber that won't do that.

    You could also try OTC magnesium supplements. One symptom of taking too much mag (even a sm amt too much) is diarrhea, but it is also helpful for constipation. I cannot tolerate it because any form of mag supplement causes this type of problem for me.

    Your pain doctor should be able to give you methylnaltrexone. It comes in a shot as relistor, and I think in a tablet. It is an opiate blocker but does NOT cross into the brain so it does NOT keep your medications from helping the pain. It just works in your gut so that you go to the bathroom. It is rather explosive so make SURE that you are home and do not have to go anywhere. I also recommend having a hot rice bag on hand to help bc it does come with cramping as everything leaves you. Regular naltrexone would help with the constipation but would keep your pain medications from working.

    When it is prescribed, if you get relistor, get ONE shot first to try. it is pretty expensive, so if you just get one then you don't have the full cost if it doesn't work.
  13. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not


    I can't believe she would rather sit in a bathtub and deal with THAT mess, rather than going to the ER.

    (Of course, I guess she's NOT dealing with the mess....she's having her Mom do it. Lovely - NOT!)

    Ugh! You have my sympathy!
  14. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Oh gosh, I sure hope she gets better....I agree that at least the initial cleaning up after should be on her. (I'd have to go back in and make sure it was really really clean before I used it again, but the gross part can be on her, right?) I know it is not her fault but she can make decisions to make this all easier and at some point she is going to have to learn to take care of it herself I suppose.

    I really feel terrible for her. For me (wow we are really over-sharing here, LOL) eating raw carrots makes everything fine...I can't imagine how awful she must feel like that. Wish she would just go and let them take care of her.
  15. helpangel

    helpangel Active Member

    Thank you everyone not only for the support but some very practical advise and a few ideas of things I haven't tried. I can't talk to my family about this as my brother had this going on worse then Angel and this would be the straw that broke my mother. I got an idiot neighbor keeps coming down here trying to get me to give her onion rings; ugh finally told her "rather then speed up her funeral I will understand if you don't attend". Onion rings ugh of all the brainless ... growl huff snort. Like I would give this kid any solid food at this point much less something that causes gas - her bowel will explode.

    I dealt with this refusing treatment thing in January a week after her arrest she dove out window and took off barefoot in 10 degree weather after smashing up my house. Restraining her to keep her out of 45mph road cop tells me they won't call an ambulance because words coming out her mouth are I don't want to go to hospital and she is 17yo. I'm going to contact her case manager tomorrow and figure out what I have to do to have control of medical decisions among other things. As soon as CM gets the leg work done I'm getting her transferred over to adults MH. This has been a viscous circle for the past 10 years; need to break the circle and start transferring her to adult services anyway.

    Her thyroid will be off, she not drinking enough water etc. will get constipated. Will finally get the fecal blockage gone and something about getting rid of all those toxins she was holding in she goes into a manic phase for a couple weeks. While manic she will be eating pizza and chips and all that junk she knows can't have that I don't bring into the house. They check lithium, adjust lithium which throws off her thyroid again, gets constipated and round and round she goes.

    Or they fix lithium level which throws thyroid off, adjust thyroid which throws off lithium and round and round. The fact that this kid is still getting in this condition while taking 4 laxatives a day tells me there is something wrong -horribly wrong somewhere - probably with her plumbing.

    Her county psychiatrist doesn't do any medication adjustments, of the 16 psychiatric hospital stays I would say 10 of them could have been avoided if her psychiatrist had just adjusted medications when needed instead of letting her end up inpatient for psychosis. Part of me wishes prince Charming would ride in here on his Harley and ride off into the sunset with her/ the other part wants to protect her and be in control of everything.

    It's almost like this kid is giving me a split personality where I keep arguing with myself and can't stay focused. The psychiatrist calls my problem stress disorder not otherwise specified because she couldn't find anything in the DSM that fit correctly; its not Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) its almost PTSD but they would have to change the P to an O or C for ongoing or cumulative traumatic stress disorder.

    Wish it wasn't Sunday I could get her probation officer to bully her into going to ER. Nope more manpower gonna call my friend and get him to drive us down and have 2 guys carry her into the ER for me if can get her inside children's hospital this will get done if she refuses to go in our ride will have already left. Eventually she will get cold enough to go inside.

    Oh a final note on the cleaning - any kid big enough to hold a rag in their hand can clean their own **** up if can't get it in the toilet. I know when laxatives kick in she has no control and leaves trails thru the house but its her trails so she can clean them.

    I'm taking her to hospital if nothing else to abandon my child right outside the doors of hospital with me standing inside. Once they examine her they will have conformation I was just trying to save her life. It's to the point I don't care if I go to jail - I'm done - time for a doctor to deal with this not me. Actually that time was 3 days ago UGH

    It will probably be past midnight before have access to a computer again; you all have a blessed Sunday (lol or Monday depending where you are)
  16. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    (((((hugs))))) Glad you are making her clean this up. The laws are so crazy that I cannot fathom them. I also cannot fathom why she would rather be in such pain than go tot he hospital. I guess mania is the reason why, but still. From the few times I have dealt with this (severe constipation), I cannot imagine how she is tolerating the pain! Pain from that motivated me to change a lot of my eating habits to avoid it in the future.

    Onion rings? WTH is wrong with your neighbor??? Talk about a dangerous idiot!

    I am sorry your mom has had to deal with this with yoru brother.

  17. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I have no experience in this area except for colonoscopy prep. Four or five years ago I posted here that I toss my cookies having to drink the prep liquid and one of our members told me in her state you had the options to take pills.
    A week ago I had to prep and made sure I found a specialist who would Rx pills. They cost just under a hundred dollars and if I had to get a second job to afford it...I'd pay it again. The pills are not small and you have to take around thirty of them but they do they job, there is no nausea and you get a decent nights rest before going to the hospital.

    I have NO idea if this is relevant to your family issue but thought I'd share. Hugs DDD
  18. helpangel

    helpangel Active Member

    Ok we can cancel my last post except the part about being grateful for all everyone did to help me thru this horrible time.

    Upon seeing me packed to go and told backup is coming to haul her out of here to ER (better throw some sweats on) she plopped something in the middle of the floor the size of a newborn baby then put her jeans on buttoned them and took that nasty mess out to the trash. The smell of those old medications is horrible.

    Still need to transfer her over to adult services and hoping adult GI doctor will do some more testing then the one at children's has done. This summer when I have more control of her diet I'm going to trial a couple weeks off milk, I know it was checked before but my gut is telling me that is a big part of the problem. Ugh guess I should look around and see if any more info available since 2009 when I was on a quest to understand "gut bacteria" and food sensitivities and all that stuff - I learned a lot but apparently not enough.

    I'm just glad that now she has gone maybe I will be able to stop going and eat something - besides a couple cookies & lots of coffee that's all I've eaten myself since Friday. What is that sympathy pains? She shouldn't eat so I can't eat, she can't poop so I can't stop its like I was trying to go for her.

    Thanks again everyone - CRISIS OVER - thank God (you all can give the beads you were rattling for us a rest for the time being)
  19. helpangel

    helpangel Active Member

    Sorry I just never know when to shut up LOL

    This problem has gone so long with Angel she is completely desensitized. She doesn't feel the pressure it doesn't hurt until time to get it out.

    My brother is almost 60yo his problems come from losing 8 inches of intestine when a car rolled over his stomach at 9yo. He was why our family doctor was a surgeon, many times on an hour or so notice they had my brother in the OR - not sure why his scar goes clear up past his collar bone. He does prunes now - a hamburger would be a 6 prune item as need 2 for each bun piece and 2 for the meat. Too bad Angel hates prunes.

    About what the idiot neighbors problem is - KNOW SHE WILL BE HERE BEATING ON MY DOOR ABOUT 30 SECONDS AFTER I POST THIS LOL - she doesn't understand boundaries, doesn't call shows up unexpected - like right at dinner time and gets very offended if don't offer her dinner, walks into house without an invitation, smacks kids in mouth to silence them, generally acts like queen of the planet and we are all her servants. Has been told numerous times about boundaries and just won't comply. Been trying for a couple months to end all contact, with her 2 houses away and unwilling to stay there its difficult. I hope she is reading this and gets the hint as I don't want to follow my cousins advise and put rock salt in a shot gun - it's more don't want gun around difficult child's then not willing to shoot her at this point.

    OK got my little vent out of my system what I think her problem is she is drowning her mood stabilizer under so much booze it can't work, the vicodin isn't helping either. My problem with her is she has ****** me off to point was afraid I was going to have a stroke a couple times (like when she smacked 15yo in the face) Guess I will submit reply and go sit on the porch because once she gets inside the house its sometimes an all day project to get her out. Though after the weekend I've had opening the whole can of whoop a** on her might be theraputic maybe I should just stay put with the door unlocked.
  20. keista

    keista New Member

    First, If she ever touches your kids again, call the cops. PERIOD.

    Second, the only way I've ever been able to get these types of ppl to leave me alone is to have a tantrum at them. Seriously. Being nice doesn't work. Being firm doesn't work, but if you go ballistic tantrum on them? Usually does the trick. At least for a few weeks. Then just repeat.