Another Disturbing Text from difficult child

Discussion in 'Substance Abuse' started by Stress Bunny, Aug 24, 2014.

  1. Stress Bunny

    Stress Bunny Active Member

    "Mine and my friend's buddy died this morning. We were drinking with him 'til 4 a.m., and he was found dead at 6:30."

    What kind of an excuse for a son sends his mom a message like this?

    JT is underage and he's been drinking regularly since he graduated high school. He also has traits of narcissism and antisocial personality disorder. He seems to enjoy the power and drama of sending me texts that upset, scare, or insult me.

    Does he want me to say, "Oh no! You could be next! Please stop drinking. "

    The deceased was in his 30s so that's where the alcohol came from.

    I wonder if other drugs were involved and if there will be a police investigation.
  2. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    I think I would reply "I am so sorry for
    your loss" and leave it that- if you think he is doing it for shock value.

    On the other hand, if you think he is seeking solace or you want to take an opportunity to reach out... I might add
    "I hope this a wake up call for you. If it is, please let me know if I can help." or something along those lines.

    I am so sorry for the fear this text must have created for you.
  3. Stress Bunny

    Stress Bunny Active Member

    I'm having a hard time sending any condolences for the loss of a user who was supplying alcohol to underage people. Also, any advice or encouragement I communicate to JT is that much less likely to be taken. He's defiant and thoroughly enjoys it.

    Something just seems suspicious to me
    After drinking all night, JT and his friend leave (I'm sure at least one of them drove too! Grrr!), and this person suddenly dies and is discovered only two hours later at 6:30 a.m. on a Saturday morning?

    Doesn't it seem like other drugs, in addition to alcohol, must have been involved? I know it's possible to overdose on alcohol, but wouldn't it be more likely that other drugs are involved too, in combination with the alcohol?

    Won't there be an investigation to determine cause of death? And isn't it possible someone else could be charged if he provided other drugs involved in the death?

    D.H. says JT deserves everything he gets.
  4. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    I'm not an expert in law enforcement. I'm thinking it will be to them just another dead drug addict/alcoholic. He's of age. I have no idea what they'll do but I'm thinking not that much unless they suspect he was murdered.

    Are you sure it even really happened?

    Do you think difficult child may be trying to scare you so that when he hits you for something, you'll be vulnerable and say yes?
  5. Stress Bunny

    Stress Bunny Active Member

    MWM, I'm waiting for the death notice and obituary to be printed. I wouldn't doubt JT could lie about this, but he did give me the guy's name.

    I know JT has gotten prescription s for pain medications and it wouldn't surprise me if he shared them. I also know there is a big heroin problem in his area.

    There have been other cases of overdose deaths where dealers and others who supplied the drugs were charged.

    Just have a feeling there's a whole lot more to the story that I don't know. There's more. There's always more.
  6. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Hon, you don't NEED to know. I never wanted to know. What's the point? It changes nothing. Just makes you more scared. I'm glad I didn't know what my daughter was using until she quit because I would have been a mess. And it wouldn't have helped her one bit. She would not have stopped until she was ready. The same goes for your son. I would leave it be. You can't change it. None of us know what our difficult children do when they aren't with us. We have not a clue. And I think, since we have no control over their choices/addictions, it is better not to ask for details unless they show signs by dumping their drug friends and changing their lifestyles and ask us to help them find a place to detox. It doesn't sound like JT is there yet.

    I don't think JT will be charged. The deceased isn't a minor. Bet the people charged had given drugs to a minor, not an adult. An adult can supposedly decide whether to take bad drugs; a minor is considered still not responsible for his actions completely. Just guessing. If he is charged with something though, he will have to face the consequences and maybe he will get help and finally decide to quit.
  7. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    Generally - IME - when the cause of death is unknown and occurred outside of a medical setting, tests will be run to determine the cause of death. Waiting for results or the eventual need for an autopsy won't necessarily hold up an obituary or a funeral or a burial, but it could delay a cremation. Even if they believe the deceased did not die under suspicious causes, the death certificate will require a definitive cause of death.

    My good friend (& neighbor's) brother died very suddenly of meningitis. His mom tucked him into bed at age 12 with tylenol because he had 101 fever and he was dead the next morning. The police didn't leave the house until the coroner could certain that it was not likely a murder. Even though everyone - including the police - knew it was some sort of tragic illness, the PD stayed on the scene and greeted everyone who came by (very nicely) until they got word that they could leave. It took nearly the entire day but it was a Sunday.

    In the situation you are describing, I would probably let JT's text go unanswered. I am so so sorry for your bewildered mommy heart.
  8. Stress Bunny

    Stress Bunny Active Member

    MWM, you're right I don't need to know. I'm trying to let go of that. At this point, I've given up on thinking I can save or protect JT in any way. I'm more interested in him experiencing the natural consequences of his actions; hopefully unpleasant enough to bring about change and better choices.

    I did find that dealers and others who provide drugs in an overdose death in Wisconsin can be charged with a crime.

    See this article: http://archive.greenbaypressgazette...072/Heroin-death-prosecutions-spike-Wisconsin.

    Sig, thank you. I didn't respond to the text except with one word "who" to find out the name of the person who died. I don't plan to give JT any attention whatsoever for this.
  9. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    Hi SB- I'm in a milwaukee suburb (but outside of milwaukee county) and - yes - police here have been prosecuting those who were with the deceased when they died and those who supplied the drugs.

    Interestingly enough, they do not release the name of the deceased for that very reason. They use the phone belonging to the deceased to find their last companions, their dealer and any other potential criminals they were associated with. The minute the word gets out that the person is dead or being investigated, the phone trail goes cold.

    We are just north of mikwaukee and there have been lots of heroin od's lately and many successful prosecutions of dealers & companions. It's a double edge sword because people are fleeing drug users in the throes of an od- instead of seeking medical attention for them. There's a push for a safe harbor law to encourage dropping them off at hospitals & fire departments without penalty.
  10. toughlovin

    toughlovin Well-Known Member

    SB... could be just alcohol, could be other drugs. Like MWM said you dont really need to know.

    I think JT may be a bit in shock and may of texted you just because he himself was having a reaction and so he told you. No more no less than that.

    I think I would text him and just say I am sorry that happened and leave it at that.

    Unfortunately when you are invovled in the drug world you end up knowing people who overdose.


    Sent using ConductDisorders mobile app
  11. Stress Bunny

    Stress Bunny Active Member

    I guess, technically, I don't even know for sure that it was an overdose. JT didn't explicitly state the cause of death. I'm inferring that.

    I know that typical people experience emotions such as grief, sadness, and guilt on losing someone close. But, I highly doubt JT is in much distress at all. I have never seen him cry over anything, since he was a small child. He lacks empathy for others and also remorse for his actions and, as a result, has only very short-term, superficial friendships and relationships that focus on using others in order to meet his wants and needs. This "buddy" of his, may have been someone he just met this week. That's why he is in his current situation. It's also why he loves to create drama and then sit back and watch the show, like an arsonist watching, with great satisfaction, a fire he set.

    IF JT is upset in any way, it's most likely because he is concerned about his own culpability in the matter; his consequences; his world.
  12. Stress Bunny

    Stress Bunny Active Member

    I know the above sounds harsh, and it is abnormal, but after reading "Without Conscience", I have no illusions about what we're dealing with in JT.
  13. Stress Bunny

    Stress Bunny Active Member

    The deceased was killed when his vehicle left the road and crashed. It seems to have been only his vehicle involved. He was 25, and the crash is under investigation. It's probably a DUI.

    Notice JT didn't mention the crash.

    What is the big infatuation with binge drinking? It seems like some people never outgrow this type of behavior. I worry that JT will be addicted before he matures enough to think differently about what he is doing. Although, given his obvious neurological deficits, maybe that just isn't possible anyway. It feels so hopeless.
  14. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Wow SB, that was a convenient detail he left out. I'm sorry someone died but can't be sorry that another polluter is gone. I had great disdain for those adults who provided my difficult child with alochol and drugs and was not grateful any time one of them got locked up I know it's not a very nice trait of mine but I was a momma bear at that time. I mean here we are trying to keep our kids safe and there are aduls out there who are doing the opposite.

    My difficult child was binge drinking every night during the 18-19 years. She told us later that she was drinking 18 beers a day and I have no doubt she was. She said she was in a constant blackout and doesn't remember much of those days. I'm still hoping that something wakes your son up and he realizes what a mess he is making of his life. In the meantime I understand your shock and anger very well. I use to say that my anger and pain was so close to the surface that it was hard to think about anything else. I hated going around angry all the time but I finally worked through it and had to come to terms with possibly losing her before I could see to the other side.
  15. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    I think it is on us to do all we can to keep our difficult child non-sober kids off the road and out of cars. We can't help it if their friends let them drive their cars (idiots that they are), but I don't think we should give our adult kids who drink/take drugs a car. It's too dangerous. Jeezzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
  16. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    He was trying to engage you by sending you that text. Have you tried blocking his texts? I found it very helpful to tell my difficult child that as long as she was living a life of an addict I did not want to be taken along for the ride. My therapist helped me set boundaries by telling my difficult child that I would talk to her once a week.

    It helped me get off the roller coaster of emotions that she had me on by telling me about her crazy life.

  17. Childofmine

    Childofmine one day at a time

    My ex-husband was a binge drinker. And he binged in secret.

    He could have one or two cocktails---or not---in social settings. Looking back, that is why it was so hard to see his alcoholism.

    Strangely, I used to encourage him to drink (I know, I know) because he was nicer. And he could "handle" a lot of alcohol, which I thought was a "good thing."

    Shows how clueless I was.

    After he went to IOP, I read some of the things he wrote there. He wrote about many instances of binge drinking---none of which I knew about at all.

    It made me feel crazy. Like I had lived with someone I didn't know at all.

    But he was very good at hiding it. He was a very good liar.

    Alcoholism always progresses without treatment. An alcoholic will only get worse. And finally, that is what happened. He went out with some friends from church to an ice hockey game. When he left our house, he had a huge carry cup full of Scotch and water. That was at about 4 p.m. Evidently---as I found out later---they drank lots of beers at the game, and then they went bar-hopping and did shots. He didn't remember anything past the end of the game---completely blacked out. His friends said he seemed fine at the bars. He got home at 2 a.m., came straight to bed right beside me, got up at 4 a.m. to go to the bathroom, fell and hit his head, which woke me up. He wouldn't answer me, so I thought he had a stroke. I called 911 and his blood alcohol was three times the legal limit.

    They kept him in the hospital for 2 days, did an MRI, and were about to release him when I asked about his blood alcohol level. And were they going to talk to him about that?

    I filled them in on the past year of my own life with him---which had been he__ on earth after I began realizing he was an alcoholic and started insisting he stop and was in his face all the time about it (wrong thing to do, I know now).

    I asked them about rehab and to help me with him. Folks, hospitals and doctors are not equipped at all to deal with addiction. Finally, a hospitalist and a social worker came to the room and with me there, talked to him about his blood alcohol level and told him he needed to stop drinking and would need help to do it.

    They gave us a list of programs.

    We left the hospital, and he denied it all, but I persisted, and he went to IOP. He stopped drinking, which was great, and started going to AA. Every single night. For more than a year.

    I stayed with him, hoping things would be different between us. They were not. To my mind, he was now addicted to AA. I didn't know that sobriety at first can really be worse to live with than the drinking.

    Anyway, we separated, and divorced, and that was 7 years ago.

    Binge drinking is still alcoholism, even when the person can drink one or two drinks for months on end before they binge. All of the behaviors and the thinking patterns are the same. And that is 50% of addiction anyway.

    And that's my story on that! :)
  18. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    COM you touched on a few important point. First that an alocholic can drink moderately at times which often fools us and second that a sober drunk is just as bad as a non sober one. Thanks for sharing.
  19. Stress Bunny

    Stress Bunny Active Member

    MWM, JT has his own junky truck, and we'll never buy him a vehicle again. I would bet anything that JT has driven under the influence many times. I hope he gets caught and has to face the consequences.

    Kathy, I haven't blocked JT texts. He seldom contacts me any more. He knows we've had enough. I see a counselor. The counselor says I need to let go of the anger but set boundaries with JT. That's hard because I can't stand him. He's an impossibly difficult person.
  20. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member

    As I was reading I figured there was more to the story than JT left at 4 and the guy was found dead at 6. How would JT know? An accident makes much more sense.

    I think it is so sad that JT cant feel the empathy and sadness that most of us feel when someone we know, or heck even dont know, dies.

    Years ago Cory was living on his own for the first time in this real dump of a trailer. He was 21 or maybe 22. He has always been a real stickler for anyone driving drunk though he has had parties at his place. He always tells people to spend the night. They arent huge parties so people can grab a blanket and a pillow. Well one night one of his friends got mad at someone else during the party. He didnt get in a car but he left out walking. We live in the country and this kid headed out to the road and he was hit while walking in the road. He hadnt gotten a hundred feet from Cory's place. Actually thinking back, this wasnt a party, the guy had just been drinking but no one else was so when he started getting dumb and people started telling him to calm down that is when he left...angry.

    Cory called me all upset. His friend was lying in the street dead and everyone saw it. I had to race over there because Monkey was at his place asleep. I had to get her out of there before she realized what was going on. What was really bad was the person who hit this boy never stopped. They never did find out who ran him over.