Another one of those teachers who doesn't get it

[InsaneCdn]

Stupid question, but... do you have a formal diagnosis on the Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) stuff?
That's a major diagnosis change, too. Around here, that alone (Auditory Processing Disorders (APD)) is enough to trigger resources.
And we found that most teachers "get" the Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) stuff easier than the developmental stuff.
But even if you can get ONE more diagnosis dealt with, it will be a huge win for your difficult child.

If you don't have the formal diagnosis for Auditory Processing Disorders (APD)... then is there some way to go about getting it?

 

[DammitJanet]

The biggest help I did for my kids was to put homework squarely on their shoulders from a very young age. I was completely fed up with it in early elementary school. I had my kids in 3 after school sports and I worked full time. From the time I picked them up after school we went straight to whichever sport they were in and then home for dinner and by that time they were basically done for the day. There was no time for long bouts of homework nor was I going to fight with them over stupid busy work which they already knew how to do. All it did was make the rest of evenings miserable, they were getting very overtired and I was having none of it. My boys had to be in bed very early on school nights. Normally at that age they were in bed no later than 8:30 at the latest and I wasnt keeping them up later to do homework.

I went to the school and point blank told them they werent doing homework anymore. I didnt give a horses behind what they wanted to do about it grade wise either. Their classroom grades and test scores showed they knew the material so whatever. Oddly enough by the time Jamie got to middle school and high school, he started doing his homework on his own because he needed to do it to go over what was learned in class. I never had to tell him or force the issue. He just took on the subject himself. If he didnt understand something he would ask me for help or ask me to help him get into tutoring at the school. So by not pushing the issue and making it a huge fight, he learned that when something was important he needed to do it.

 

[DaisyFace]

So by not pushing the issue and making it a huge fight, he learned that when something was important he needed to do it.

And for some kids - this totally works.

My DS will do homework, projects, extra-credit....whatever.

My difficult child? Fuhgeddaboutit!

After all these years, difficult child still pretty much does nothing extra. Most of the time, the teachers have let it slide and she has passed many of her classes by the skin of her teeth.

Now, in her senior year of high school - she has a math class that she absolutely must pass in order to graduate. The teacher is being a stickler for homework. So at the moment - difficult child is flunking.

The solution would be for difficult child to start doing the homework.

Instead, difficult child is petitioning the guidance counselor to let her switch to a math class in which the teacher is not such a stickler for homework. (That's right, if a teacher is requiring homework - just get a new teacher...)

So I don't have a solution to the homework issue. Some kids understand that they need extra practice or need to do the work to keep up their GPA. While others either don't get it - or simply don't care.

 

[InsaneCdn]

While others either don't get it - or simply don't care.​

Read more: http://www.conductdisorders.com/for...ho-doesnt-get-51449/index2.html#ixzz2E6L0NDVG​

Or... have been taught by school to behave this way.
I'm serious. We're undoing years of damage done by teachers who really messed up difficult children sense of honesty, integrity, and the effort/reward link. So... he reacts "differently" to things like homework - and now that I know where he is coming from, it isn't quite so simple.

(not slamming ALL teachers - there are some really good ones, some pretty average ones... and some downright dangerous ones, which we seem to have had more than our fair share of)

 

[DaisyFace]

Or... have been taught by school to behave this way.

Oh yeah...don't even get me started. difficult child learned by 1st Grade that teachers would let her slide on homework. And she's been right all these years. It's a shame that the first teacher to really hold her to it is the 12th Grade math teacher.

 

[TerryJ2]

I wish my son would take that upon himself like your Jamie, Janet.
I think he's more like DF's daughter.
He puts the least amt of effort into everything. He's always been like that.
Although he does like to read. Even if he doesn't understand all the nuances of the plot. He's been doing poorly on class quizzes in English lately, because they're into symbolism and subtlety. I'm glad they're taking their time with-To Kill a Mockingbird, because even some adults have difficulty with-that one.

I meet with-the counselor Thurs a.m.

 

[DammitJanet]

I have no idea where the idea came from that it is okay to let them slide. Had to happen after I was in school. We were expected to do our work. Now I have no idea about the kids in the Special Education classes because I wasnt in them. Back then they werent even mainstreamed. I was in school in the late 60's- 80. I learned to do homework because in 3rd grade I forgot my homework one time and I was kept after school and made to write a 2 page (back and front) essay on why homework was important. Obviously it made an impact...lol. I remember it all these years later!

 

[LittleDudesMom]

Although he does like to read. Even if he doesn't understand all the nuances of the plot. He's been doing poorly on class quizzes in English lately, because they're into symbolism and subtlety. I'm glad they're taking their time with-To Kill a Mockingbird, because even some adults have difficulty with-that one.

Sounds like he needs to develop his "self thinking" techniques. It's much easier to answer questions like, "Who was John's father in the story?" than "What did John's father hope his son would learn by leaving him alone in the house?" That involves the student being able to draw their own conclusions and think independently. It is definitely something that our difficult children struggle with but those techniques can be taught. From early on, when I used to scribe for difficult child, I always posed every question with, "what do you think about xyz".

In regards to homework - at difficult child's school, homework is weighted but most of his classmates don't do it. Never been an option in my house. From early elementary school both my kids, easy child and difficult child, learned that at the set time, now it's 5:00 and has changed depending on age activities, etc., all electronics go off and homework is done - period, no need to complain or argue or fight about it 'cause it's been that way in my house since 1996! The other rule was no Sat social time until homework is done -- no Sunday night last minute mess for me (that is my relaxing time!!!).

I think this is the biggest advise I could give someone with very young children. Kids, even difficult children, are much more amenable to homework if they see you reading and the time is quiet and structured (same place, same time, etc.). I had a little rolling supply cart that we used to move into the dining room at 4 when easy child and difficult child did homework together. Any supplies they needed were there and I would sit and read a magazine, or open mail, or write my grocery or to do list, etc. I'm not saying it was always smooth going, but my kids both learned from very early on that I would not tolerate laziness or an "I don't care" attitude towards their homework. It was how both the teacher and I knew if they were learning.... But, this is me.

Most teachers, especially at the high school level, include their late work policy in their beginning of the year syllabus. difficult child has teachers who work with you and those who accept no late work, period. Terry, unless you have this in the 504, you don't have a leg to stand on other than the graciousness of the teacher. Sounds like his teacher is willing to give a little.

Sorry this is such a headache.

Sharon

 

[DammitJanet]

Very good ideas Sharon. Thats the way I always did my homework too. I was a stickler for me. When I was in school and especially in college, I never did anything until my homework was done. Then I would do a few things around the house and then hit the books again to study more.

 

[Kathy813]

Ah . . . my favorite thread . . .HOMEWORK!

I found reading through the posts to be fascinating. Some of the posters thought the problem was that teachers were too lenient about homework and deadlines and it made kids lazy and undisciplined and set them up for rude awakening in the real world (which is my personal opinion).

Others thought teachers were too strict and inflexible and didn't understand special needs and that exceptions need to be made (which has some validity also).

So basically, teachers are damned it they do and damned it they don't. Welcome to my world.

My school district has banned homework zeros. Students are supposed to be allowed to make up their homework so I allow them to come to my classroom and do the assignment in front of me during their lunch (that way I know they really did it and didn't copy it from someone else). Of course, some students won't do that either so then what am I supposed to do? Go to their house and eat dinner with the family and then help the student do their homework? Oh wait, that won't work since they have a part-time job and won't be home until midnight. So I guess I could go to their house in the morning and eat breakfast with them and help them do their homework then. Oh wait, that won't work since they oversleep and get to school late.

Yeah, I'm being kind of snarky here but at some point students need to take responsibility . . . especially the juniors and seniors that I teach.

It is not suprising to me that many students that get good grades in high school flunk out of their first year of college. They simply have never been required to develop a work ethic or meet deadlines.

Just my take from the other side . . .

~Kathy

 

[InsaneCdn]

Even in HS... when the "homework" that comes home bears no relationship to any form of real learning - when the homework is just busywork... I really get upset. My kids have limited strength. Spending real effort for real results is well supported in our house. But teachers get pushback from me on ANY busywork. No kid should have to spend hours making something "pretty". Or working on group projects where 99.99% of the "work" is figuring out how to work together... with kids who, outside of class, either ignore or bully you. Practicing math skills? sure. Write an essay about a class novel? of course. Lots of examples that are valid. But somehow... at least around here... over half the so-called homework is pure busywork. And I fight back. If I didn't? My kids would have NO life. It would be... go to school all day, and then spend all of every evening and all of the weekend doing nothing but homework. They just can't DO THAT.

Like usual, there are no easy answers.

 

[TerryJ2]

Kathy and Insane, I think that difficult child's homework is not just busywork; he really needs to do it to reinforce what he has been taught at school. He memorizes things and when homework has one tiny thing that's different, he freaks and gets stuck. Well, don't you think that on the test there will be a LOT of things that are different, to make sure you get the concept? He doesn't even get the concept of getting the concept!

I met with-the guidance counselor today. We are going to revisit the 504 and add to it. The NILD teacher is writing up a formal document about difficult child's auditory processing disorder, and his problems with-sequencing. (I think that's two documents.)
The counselor will talk to the math teacher and the Earth science teacher and make sure that, as is written in the 504, difficult child sits with-peers who can help him. That does NOT mean sits with-his girlfriend in the back of the room! Plus, he cannot be yelled at for talking if it's about work. (And he does a lot of "huh?" stuff, even on the ph with-his girlfriend so I can only imagine how it is in class.)
He is also going to talk to the Earth science teacher about difficult child's homework handouts, and the way the info is written. For ex, the teacher gave me a nice spreadsheet with-ALL of the homework and assignments for the yr. All you have to do is read from left to right and find the name of the assignment, such as "Volcano," the date it is assigned, the date it is due, what sort of assignment it is, etc.
Well, there are about 9 rows from left to right and I told the counselor that difficult child will read the first three and then zone out. He's not being a brat. He just has to be helped with-that part. The teacher is going to hate it but ... if they can get an aide in there or something it would help.

After all the paperwork is on board, we'll revisit the 504. In the meantime, we'll just take it one day at a time.

by the way, difficult child got his Earth science essay graded on the spot. He got a 66.
A "D" ? I said. "What happened?"
"I don't know. I had more than the required 5 sentences to each paragraph. In some, I had 7."
"What about context?"
"He didn't say anything about context. He just kept saying something about the sentences."
"Where's the paper?"
"He keeps them and doesn't give them back."
"You mean he doesn't write in the margins so you know what's going on with each paragraph?"
"No."

That's not working ...

 

[InsaneCdn]

a 66 is a D?
I thought that was a C? (it is around here... 50-59 = D, 60-69 = C, 70-79 = B and the rest is A)

I hate it when teachers in subjects other than English, insist that the English be a significant part of the mark.
We managed to get most of difficult child's "other" teachers to leave that to the English teacher and focus on ways to demonstrate his knowledge of the subject. When we took "English" out of Social Studies and Science... his marks went up significantly.

 

[DammitJanet]

Good lord IC, what do you do to have to fail? When I was in school anything under a 70 was failure. 94 and above was an A. I think they did slightly lower it for my kids to 92 and above being an A. Every 8 points lower is a grade drop. I cant imagine.

 

[SuZir]

Good lord IC, what do you do to have to fail? When I was in school anything under a 70 was failure. 94 and above was an A. I think they did slightly lower it for my kids to 92 and above being an A. Every 8 points lower is a grade drop. I cant imagine.

That of course depends from given work. Our schools don't use A, B etc. system but numbers and we have more than 5 different grades. Still easy to change to percentage. And with our grades too under 50 is a fail. 70 is an average (as in class average, if higher the exam is considered to be too easy and teacher to be too lenient), highest grade is over 95 and usually much less than 5 % of kids get that. With 90 average in all classes you are already in that top 5 % and I have never met anyone who would had a report card with only highest grades, just doesn't happen. 80 in our system means that kid has achieved every goal for the said course and does master everything listed in curriculum for that course. Anything over that shows special interest and mastery on the topic. In older times it was said that 90 was for the teacher and anything above that for God. Nowadays they do give those nineties and above but it is still not something you get easily.

I have been in university classes there 50 was also cut off for failed and from about 200 who took the exam two got over ninety, 5 got around 70 and other 5 got low fifties, everyone else failed (yeah, we were allowed to retake the exams and they certainly did it so difficult in purpose to teach new students a lesson.)

 

[buddy]

Problem with getting an aide is a 504 plan is not funded. If it's in the IEP they can collect some state and fed. funding. Sigh.
He really sounds like he needs support from sp ed teachers from how you're describing his challenges. Just too many directions, steps, rules, dates, too much not so concrete language ...... I hope they cooperate with you! Good job staying on top of it. I know it's not the most rewarding job, (

 

[TerryJ2]

Yes, it's good to keep in mind that it's not funded.
And that if there are too many steps. difficult child needs help. That's pretty much the bottom line.

 

[InsaneCdn]

If you can't get the aide under a 504, then you need to go up the chain of command to get that IEP.

Don't get a "joined-at-the-hip" aide, though.
The kind of help your difficult child needs is subtle but pervasive... there needs to be an aide in the class full time, but the aide can help multiple students, not just yours. Kids don't fight so hard against classroom aides as they do against personal ones. been there done that.

 

[TerryJ2]

Right.
He would rather die.

 

[InsaneCdn]

We've had some really good aides - and some not so good ones.
But... now that we know what to ask for, we get good ones (or average ones who are told what to do... works too)

Note-taking by the aide, really helps. Aide sends notes to resource teachers, who make copies for all the kids who need it (including anyone who was excusably absent that day). Aide can write teacher's instructions on the board while the teacher is talking - it means the teacher is talking to the students rather than to the board (huge help for anyone with hearing or Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) issues), plus anyone who is confused about a step just has to look a the board. (Aide then writes out instructions for resource teachers... same routine). Lots of these accommodations are subtle - the other kids don't know which kid is funding the aide - but everyone in the class wins, including the teacher!