Another rough day...

[Albatross]

I still don't think I was wrong to want to do that little bit.

I think it is a question of what is right or wrong for YOU, not what's right or wrong for your son. We ultimately have to decide what we can live with in our hearts. We aren't blessed with knowing the outcome of helping or not helping.

I personally think any help other than verbal encouragement is going to ensure that he keeps expecting you to solve his problems for him if he screams loud and long enough. That's been my experience.

In my case, we cut my son off from all assistance other than words of encouragement. Since then he has finally gotten a job, he shows up, and he even got himself a raise. He does his laundry, has a cute little apartment that he takes pride in and is finally going back to college to make up those classes he failed. He even got himself an adorable new kitten.

I'm totally kidding, of course.

He has no job and no intentions of getting one. He is staying rent-free with 2 friends, and I probably don't want to know why they let him. He somehow comes up with money for gas and fast food...I don't want to know how. I know he had an arraignment for some misdemeanor drug charges, so I can take an educated guess. And we only found out about that because the notice was mailed to my son's address of record. He went to his arraignment and agreed to show up for a few drug tests and pay a minimal fine in the next 30 days and the charges would be dismissed.

But he's disappeared again, so I guess he will be arrested and/or have his license suspended.

Would it have been right to step in this time, when we have always believed it is right to hold firm about not helping other than words of encouragement?

We actually did. We provided an attorney for him at the arraignment. And he's disappeared again. And the outcome is the same as if he had not even shown up at the arraignment in the first place.

As parents, we CARE about not being arrested, being able to get to work, having food, etc. Apparently they do not. And helping them doesn't make them care.

Then again, NOT helping apparently doesn't make them care either. So there's no right answer in terms of how it affects them. We can only do what we can live with, as parents and as a couple.

 

[Albatross]

$1. We gave a total stranger $10 for food at the restaurant last night!

Forgot to add, I don't think the amount of money involved is the issue. Feeding the stranger at Perkins doesn't open up all the potential manipulation, consequences, inconsistent messages, etc.

 

[BusynMember]

Albatross, I do think what you say is somewhat true. But the issue is...how much do WE want to take? Do we want to have a life of our own and spend as much time with our significant others and respectful, caring family members and friends than we do with our manipulative, using adult children? Do we want to give them all of our retirement? We have to all know they certainly are not going to be there for us if we run out of money and get sick. In fact, in many cases, once the ATM is turned off, they have nothing more to do with us. This is our story as well as theirs.

In some cases it does help. We have examples here on this forum. My daughter is an example. She got her own life together when she realized nobody else would. That included a job, quitting drugs including meth, quitting cigarettes too!!!, dumping the losers who were always around when trouble struck and who encouraged her to keep using, and starting her real life over again. Some adult kids will do what my daughter did. Some will be messes no matter what we do. Do we owe them our lives? To die young of stress and leave everyone prematurely, even those who had nothing to do with our troubled sweethearts? To get high blood pressure and other stress related diseases while never have a clear mind or peace?

That is truly up to the person. There are 85 year old moms still running to rescuse 60 year old adult seniors (I guess that's what you'd call them at that age) who are abusive, still stealing from them, literally waiting for them to die so they can inherit money. They HAVE given up their entire life to difficult child. Their dreams were never seen. Their other chidlren are angry and distraught and probably will not be much support for Troubled Adult Senior.

But the 85 year old may be doing the only thing she feels comfortable doing, even if she has lived for fifty years worrying about this "child." It's not wrong...to me, it's just sad. Sad for her.

I have seen posts where people put, "I can't be happy while he is suffering."

Well, you can learn coping skills and do it. And, after all, who causes his suffering? It's the adult child, not you. Why does what he is experiencing make some of us unable to be happy or to feel guilty if we, who worked hard all our lives, experience well-earned joy? It isn't logical. Better to think, in my opinion, "I wish he could be happy too, but he has chosen not to and we can't control his chosen path."

So in the end we do what is right for us. For me, I need to bask in my blessings. I have had many trials, but have ended up oh-so-blessed and I choose to concentrate on that. I am happy now, peaceful. I can not assure that my adult children will always be happy. But I can be a loving mom with a shoulder to cry on without allowing my adult children to abuse me or use me or disrespect me. And I can have much joy and happiness. I never dreamed I'd be so contented. I never dreamed I'd ever be able to let go. I was that mom who even worried about her best behaved and most balanced children. I have even learned to let go of that quickly. I have no control over anyone but me. I can be loving without pretending that my adult children and I are the same person who should feel the same emotions...and if they are sad that I have to be sad with them. Sympathetic, if the cause is worthwhile, of course. Sad? No. That doesn't help anyone.

My attitude has always been to let them know we believe they can do better, even if they struggle. In the case of my own two kids who struggled, both landed on their feet...one in spectacular fashion and the other still struggling a little, but supporting himself 100%. Maybe because of that, I think tough love (the love included) is better than never giving them the feeling that they can do it. Sure, it could take years, but many of our troubled adult children WILL find their way, but in my opinion only, not if he are there to catch them every time they stumble or whine. Yes, it's hard not to do it. But I feel we have to remind them that are are men and women, no longer children.

 

[recoveringenabler]

Lil, no matter how any of us look at it, it's hard. It's the hardest thing any of us will EVER DO. Of course you want to give him food, of course you want to help him just this one time. It takes time to learn that most of the time, helping them at all, does not help them at all. All of this goes against all our natural instincts as mothers to nurture, love, protect and support. That makes it so hard. But our kids are not the typical kids who thrive amidst that environment......our kids are off the rails and we have to learn a very different approach to push them into learning the skill set that will enable them to take care of themselves. If we continue to show up each and every time when they need something, they will not learn and it will be to their detriment. So, for a little while, we have to bite the bullet, we have to move through our own desire, (and sometimes deep need) to help them so that they can (possibly, hopefully) grow into adults who can take care of themselves. And truthfully, sometimes they don't.

It's very hard Lil, very hard. When I first heard that I needed to detach and let my daughter face the consequences of her own choices, my reaction was, "I am her mother, I am not going to allow that, there is something very wrong with that thinking." Well, inch by inch, I began realizing that MAYBE, just maybe, those therapists, those other mothers, those books, those 12 step groups, were correct. And, it was then that it began to turn around, as I let go and allowed my daughter to face her own consequences. Like many of us here, I learned that she did not starve, that she did not die, she did not wither away without my help, she found a different way. Her way.

There isn't any right or wrong way Lil. We all have to do what we have to do as long as we have to do it. We're all just trying to offer our experience so that perhaps, you won't make the mistakes we did......we're just trying to ease your pain, comfort you, make it a tad easier for you......because each of us here knows just how hard this really is.

 

[SeekingStrength]

In my case, we cut my son off from all assistance other than words of encouragement. Since then he has finally gotten a job, he shows up, and he even got himself a raise. He does his laundry, has a cute little apartment that he takes pride in and is finally going back to college to make up those classes he failed. He even got himself an adorable new kitten.

I'm totally kidding, of course.

Ahhh, gee. The things that crack me up are scary. This did.

Lil, I probably told you this before. I follow your story and read how folks reason with you to get you to non-enabling. Fifteen years ago, ten years ago, five years ago, I would have received the very same advice. The thing is, I did not find this board until husband and I were totally sick and tired of helping a 32 yo Difficult Child---who was still asking (in his case, demanding) help. husband and I thought we were "doing good". We never bailed him out of jail and hey, isn't that huge??? What we did not see was that we were still enabling, big time, by the "little" things (in our minds) that we were doing.

I love Albatross's post. I laughed so hard and husband did too when I shared it. The sad thing is ...well, the sad thing is, it does not linearly happen like that, just as she said.

But, enabling sure did not work for our son, either.

It is just so blankety-blank difficult, as a mom. Like your Jabber, my husband backed away from enabling years before I came around. I thought husband was just a tad....non-caring, heartless, even.

All this meandering post means, is...I hope it does not go for you as it did for me. If your story with your son is anything like mine (and it may not be ANYthing like mine!!!), better to get it now... husband's and my relationship with our Difficult Son was much more contentious (nice word for what we experienced) than yours, so I do not know how it will go with you and your son.

I only want to warn you...it might behoove you to back away now. Do not end up with a 32/33yo son who still expects you to fix things. It's not pretty and certainly not good for any involved.

 

[Lil]

I think, all things considered, I'm doing pretty well actually. After all, never in my wildest dreams would I have dreamed I'd have kicked him out with no money and no place to go. But I did. Never did I dream he'd be homeless. But he was. Never did I think he'd be getting food from food pantries and church charities instead of eating at home. But he is.

I hated telling him no. I hated having to choose between doing what I wanted, just feed him, and what Jabber wanted me to do. I didn't help him. But I didn't do it because it was best for him or because it was best for me, I did it because I my husband didn't want me to.

And it doesn't feel right. What would have felt right would have been to actually talk to my son, to give him a tiny bit of food and to try, again, to get him on the right track.

It probably wouldn't do any good. But it would have felt right to try.

I'm NOT going to be taking care of him when he's 30. I'm not taking care of him now at 19. But I WILL be helping him if he's in real need when he's 50 - if he's otherwise living a decent life. Just like Jabber's parents would help up right this minute if we were in desperate straights.

It's a tightrope. We are not cutting him off completely...we're not disowning him or going no-contact. So we have to deal. It is hard, trying to decide how much is too much.

 

[pandora404]

It's a tightrope. We are not cutting him off completely...we're not disowning him or going no-contact. So we have to deal. It is hard, trying to decide how much is too much.

Yes, I agree. Your son sounds like my son. Loving him is not simple, more a problem that has to be managed. The situation is ever changing, and you have to think quite carefully before you act. It IS stressful, and also annoyingly time consuming! I find worrying about him, including planning a strategy to help him but not enable him (if that's possible), is eating up my spare time. As everyone says, it's important not to forget to do something pleasurable for ourselves. If only it was as easy as changing the channel!
Best wishes.

 

[in a daze]

It takes time to learn that most of the time, helping them at all, does not help them at all. All of this goes against all our natural instincts as mothers to nurture, love, protect and support. That makes it so hard. But our kids are not the typical kids who thrive amidst that environment......our kids are off the rails and we have to learn a very different approach to push them into learning the skill set that will enable them to take care of themselves. If we continue to show up each and every time when they need something, they will not learn and it will be to their detriment. So, for a little while, we have to bite the bullet, we have to move through our own desire, (and sometimes deep need) to help them so that they can (possibly, hopefully) grow into adults who can take care of themselves. And truthfully, sometimes they don't.

So true, RE.

Lil, my son sent me a text on January 30th (ironically that was the day 2 years ago he went into the hospital and he hasn't been back to our home/the condo we bought for him since). He was going to starve because his Link card was out of money and we forbade him from putting frozen food on the credit card we had set up at Walgreens to pay for his prescriptions. Said he had no money for food and asked if I would take him shopping on the next day which was a Saturday. I told him no, I was unable to take him shopping.

He texted back about his horrible anxiety about the lack of food and a missing prescription. I suffered all weekend. I laid on the couch and drank chamomile tea and cried all day. Then I forced myself to go to mass and then a parish party and ended up having a decent time.

I then decided that I would bring him some emergency food on Tuesday since I was going to take him to this appointment, which he ended up having to cancel as they had changed his schedule at work. I saw my therapist on Wednesday, and she told me absolutely NO care packages or emergency food, he would never learn to fend for himself if I kept doing that for him.

So I met him on his birthday which was the week after that, and I did bring him some home made sauce and meatballs that I had in the freezer and a package of pasta.

And then he texted and wanted to meet us for dinner tonight and we did see him. No mention about the Link card, or how he's managing to feed himself. His caseworker is helping him with budgeting. She told me he spends a third of his money on cigarettes. (Just like Pasages said!)

You can get through this, Lil.

 

[2much2recover]

Our Difficult Child are so good at putting energy into being a victim, if they would only channel that energy into getting a job.

Oh boy and don't they. The creative stuff they come up would really serve them well if it could be channeled correctly. Is NEVER going to happen however. Lil, DOES HE remind you of your ex, his birth father? Are the things that he is doing, a reflection of who his father was? At sometime you are going to have to come to accept this DNA connection - that nature really may be overcoming nurture. Only when you get to that point will you begin to detach FOR YOU!

 

[BusynMember]

Lil, my particular post was actually a response (not an argument, but a response) to Albatross, not you. If indeed my children who try to fly right need help, I do give it to them. The interesting thing is, those adult children do not seem to need much help and want to be independent and are worried about ME now and I think that's how your son will be at 50 if he straightens out his life. Sure, I voluntarily send Princess extra $$$ and gifts-for-no-reason for Buddha Baby. I WANT to. They don't ask me to do it. And when we talk on Skype, which is our usual communication since the baby is so much fun, it is about both of us and what's going on in our lives, not about Princess and how the world has done her wrong and how she needs money, etc. It's a different relationship than, say, talking to Bart, who mostly talks about himself and has no interest in anyone else.Nobody voluntarily feels like sending him anything, trust me. He will ask his Dad if he needs sometimes unbelievable amounts of money, but, if I'm being honest, the custody battle was important. Junior is crazy about Bart and I'm glad Bart got to keep Bart 50% of the time. Other than for reasons like that, he doesn't ask ex for money. Not that the money was small potatoes.

You have never 100% allowed your son to live without your influence to see what he will do. That's scary, but it' sends them a message: "I really do have to grow up." I like doing it that way. On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with providing food, but like PasAJes4 said, probably at least 1/3rd of any money given goes for cigarettes. They don't bring that part up. And if your son is spending lots of money on weed and spice, he won't bring that up either. But I'll bet that is something he manages to pay for and continue to use. I could be wrong, of course.

Hugs and hoping for the best for all of you and I do think you are doing well. You can't change your own personality and sometimes the desire to help is very strong. Been there.

 

[DoneDad]

Just want to say you and your husband sound like great people. Sorry you're having such a tough time. I'm struggling with these same issues so don't have any words of wisdom other than stay strong together and this too shall pass. Thanks for sharing your story so we can all learn from it

 

[Albatross]

Albatross, I do think what you say is somewhat true. But the issue is...how much do WE want to take? Do we want to have a life of our own and spend as much time with our significant others and respectful, caring family members and friends than we do with our manipulative, using adult children? Do we want to give them all of our retirement? We have to all know they certainly are not going to be there for us if we run out of money and get sick. In fact, in many cases, once the ATM is turned off, they have nothing more to do with us. This is our story as well as theirs.

In some cases it does help.

MWM, you put this better than I did. I think you and I are on the same page when it comes to "helping." When I said that apparently NOT helping them doesn't make them care either, I meant that we often (or at least I often) tailor my helping or not helping based on how I think my son will react. As SS said, I expect something linear and logical from him in return. There is no such thing. Every time I step in, I have to remember I might be taking another bus to Crazytown.

And you are right, in some cases not stepping in does help them get it together, eventually. But sometimes it doesn't.

And sometimes maybe it will, around the next bend in the road or sometime long after we are no longer around to see it.

That's why I say we have to remove them from the equation. Because we don't know. All that's left is doing what's best for us.

We do this in little ways, like doing something special for ourselves when we are anxious about our children being in another bind. We do it in more global ways when we remove any buried expectations we might be harboring, of how they will/might react to what we say or do. We try to be the person we can live with being when we go to sleep at night.

In my case, I invest more of my love in people who love me back. Maybe that's selfish, but it beats banging my head against a tree indefinitely.

And Lil, I forgot to say (and I'm sorry for that; I'm still a "little" angry about my Difficult Child's latest) that I think you and Jabber are doing a terrific job as a couple with being pulled in so many directions by impossible demands. I think the way you both are so open and honest with what you need is such a wonderful quality.

 

[Childofmine]

I still don't feel good about not offering anything at all.

And it doesn't feel right

I hated telling him no. I hated having to choose between doing what I wanted, just feed him, and what Jabber wanted me to do. I didn't help him. But I didn't do it because it was best for him or because it was best for me, I did it because I my husband didn't want me to.

Oh, Lil, I am sorry. I understand the horrible fight you have inside yourself about what to do/what not to do. First, I see a lot of progress in you since you first came on this board. And this time, you allowed yourself to do what your husband suggested, instead of what you wanted so badly to do. More progress.

You are getting more and more sick and tired, Lil. And as you get more and more sick and tired, you are able to stop enabling more and more.

See your words about. They are about your feelings. If you rely on your feelings to guide your actions, you will still be enabling him when he is 60 and you are 80. We all, here on this board, had to find a way to disconnect our feelings from our actions. And it was agony at first. Once we saw that, ourselves, that disconnecting---some call it detachment---was the necessary step, we started learning to feel our feelings but not to act on them.

It is a huge job and a wholly different way of living. Just so you know, one time I took one of those personality type tests, and it said my empathy level was at 98%. For all of my life, I have been a person who lived by feelings. My feelings were paramount and they drove so many of my decisions. Now, I am a different person, because of what I have been through with difficult child over the past five years. My feelings are still a very big part of me, but they don't drive my decisions like they used to.

You have to be consistent for a long time before he will realize that he has to fix this himself.

That is so true. For a while, I could not offer difficult child one single thing. If I did, the floodgates were opened. I have often said my difficult child is the MOST PERSISTENT PERSON IN THE WORLD and if he would only turn that persistence in the right direction he could be President of these United States. Or whatever he wanted to be.

I also don't agree with the red cross basket.

I understand Lucy here, and why she takes her difficult child care packages, but I think that situation is different and if you continue to do that, he will keep on and on.

Having said that, it is so incredibly painful to listen to our difficult children on the phone crying because they are hungry. It is awful. It is the worst FEELING to have to listen to that. There was a time when I just had to stop communicating with me, because it was too hard for me. That was a transition time for me---one of so many---when I started caring more about myself than I did him. A huge shift, again one of so many huge shifts.

My son's really bad times began when he was about your son's age.

"You're working harder than she is" was the phrase that really turned on the lightbulb for me. Why would I (or should I) put more work into fixing my kid's problems than she would? What was her incentive if I did that? Zilch.

Yes, that is a huge learning that is often talked about in Al-Anon. When I am more worried about _________, fill in the blank, his place to stay, next meal, legal record, lack of money, how cold he is, whatever, than he is, things are upside down.

Well, we say, they are young, their brains aren't developed yet, they are foolish, somebody has to do the thinking for them...Lil, I know, I have been down all of those roads in the middle of the night, the Parade of the Terribles, I call it, it marches on and on and on, and I can rationalize anything. I love him. He is my son, for God's sake. I birthed him, I nurtured him, he always needed more, blah blah blah. I have said it all, too, Lil, just like I am sure you have.

We aren't different, here on this forum. We are just at different points in the awful journey.

And again...we can only do what we can live with. I believe that is a true statement.

You are changing. This journey is not about being perfect. Not about making the "right" decision each time. This journey is about your metamorphasis as a person, just as much as it is about his.

In time, unless he turns in a new direction, you WILL get to sick and tired of this, that you will stop. If you want to.

Along the way, you will have a chance to take up all sorts of tools to help you. Believe me when I say this: There is nothing you are going to do/not do that is going to change him.

Another huge learning for me---that phrase. It's not like when they were babies, and what we did/didn't do DID have an effect on whether they lived or died.

They are grown people now. Rough, not-quite-ready, dumber-than-dirt in what they do, how they think and what depths they are willing to sink---and sick, that's the addiction---but they are grown people now, rough as they are.

We can't life another person's life for them, as much as we want to.

This whole thing is a journey. Warm hugs, and best wishes and prayers for a great day for you and your husband today. We get it. We care.

 

[Lil]

Oh boy and don't they. The creative stuff they come up would really serve them well if it could be channeled correctly. Is NEVER going to happen however. Lil, DOES HE remind you of your ex, his birth father? Are the things that he is doing, a reflection of who his father was? At sometime you are going to have to come to accept this DNA connection - that nature really may be overcoming nurture. Only when you get to that point will you begin to detach FOR YOU!

I accepted that ages ago. But just like his biodad could have, he CAN change his ways.

Sent using ConductDisorders mobile app

 

[2much2recover]

I accepted that ages ago. But just like his biodad could have, he CAN change his ways.

Well now you are getting into the could've, would've should've territory! And that's a problem for you - you still believe if you are powerful enough you can fix him - which is what everyone is saying to you, you can't - he has to want that for himself. I can't remember who on the board says this but it applies to you as well: You are not that powerful. You are not powerful enough to overcome these horrible DNA genetics. If you could've, you would've done it by now with the all the love and effort you have put into nurturing this young man to be decent, and loving, and kind. It is not you that is failing here but is your refusal to understand that anyone BUT you could be responsible to how he is turning out. You are not that powerful, yes that fits.

 

[2much2recover]

Lil, I want to share a another tact I use to 'bargain" with myself. The " I respect my husband, my life partner too much" to do ____________________.
I think you Jabber came into both your lives when Difficult Child was 2 years old. To help you to say no to money I did a little math for you. Assuming the apartment and the cellphone average $400 per month - and this is just fantasy math to show you what is happening to your (and Jabber's future) $4000 x 12 = $4800 x 4 (years) x4 % (interest on investments) = $2680 not going into your future retirement. I really respect Jabber, as I do all men who step up to the plate and take care of another man's child. It comes to them at a price - a price of their own future retirement. Your retirement. I did a little research and the costs before collage and car for raising a child to 18 in 1985 averaged $250,000. Half that and you get the amount that Jabber has contributed to a son he loves very much but still it really was the financial responsibility of the bio-dad. Math again: $125000 x .4 (4 percent) and he would have had at minimum another $55,000 for his own future retirement (or $180,000). Add in his contributions to college and a car, cigarettes, dinner out and current ongoing financial needs and you can see that Jabber not only has a lot invested emotionally, but he has invested quite a bit in his own financial security out of love for your son. How much can you continue to ask of Jabber financially - for his share? When can you honestly say enough is enough and I won't let my husband be used one more time, not even for a package of romein noodles?
It truly took me seeing the disadvantage my daughter wanted to take of my husband (who did more for her than her bio-dad did) or the lack of respect my daughter showed him now we wanted to stop the flow of money to Difficult Child.
I am disabled. You have mentioned that you and Jabber don't have a lot to give Difficult Child anyway. Imagine, if you keep giving to Difficult Child and God forbid something should happen to one of you - a 2 wage earner family - how would you two make it? What about the TWO OF YOU? I can tell you it takes most people 2 years to get disability - could you financially go for two years without one of your paychecks - waiting that you MAY get a monthly pittance of a disability check? How would one of you financially survive if something happened to the other and what would retirement look like without the extra money thrown away on Difficult Child?

I throw really difficult crap your way Lil, because as much as you want to be blind, slowly, slowly through the tough love we offer you here, you begin to open your eyes. I also understand that when you do you are horrified at what you see. I also see big changes from when you first came here. I think you are one stubborn lady (wonder whose DNA that is LOL) but in the end you are capable of seeing what is right and what is wrong and eventually act on it. You get big props from me on that. To stop giving to our children when they are destroying their own lives is the last thing we won't to do. But we love other people (our spouses) and they deserve better than to go through all of this mentally, emotionally AND financially. They deserve what we promised them on our wedding day - the most important part being the number one person in our lives. We all have to let go of or children. Just because you don't like the way you have to "let go" doesn't make your situation any different. At some point child is grown and then it is time for just you and husband. Just because YOUR child is throwing his life away, doesn't mean he gets "special" treatment" in that you keep allowing him to live like a child, keep supporting him like one. No, now is the time, long ago promised for it to be for you and Jabber, alone the two of you as husband and wife - as is meant to be. You are a lucky lady, you have a man that stood by you, a single mother and helped you to raise that child. When, oh when is it Jabber's turn to turn off the money flow and perhaps take his sweetheart on a date instead of throwing it away on an apartment he doesn't even live in - doesn't even want to be on the lease for?
If you can't let go for yourself, do it for Jabber - he has shown you and your son years of support and respect and now it is your turn to protect the respect that is do him.

 

[2much2recover]

ACHH my numbers LOL left off some zero's and forgot compound interest - well you get the point I HOPE!

 

[Lil]

Well now you are getting into the could've, would've should've territory! And that's a problem for you - you still believe if you are powerful enough you can fix him -

I don't think you were "listening". I didn't say I could change him. I said HE could change. That's a very different thing.

He can. He may not want to. He may never do so. But he CAN. You know how I know? Because no matter what genes he got from his biological father, HE'S HALF MINE TOO.

How much can you continue to ask of Jabber financially - for his share? When can you honestly say enough is enough and I won't let my husband be used one more time, not even for a package of romein noodles? ... When, oh when is it Jabber's turn to turn off the money flow and perhaps take his sweetheart on a date instead of throwing it away on an apartment he doesn't even live in - doesn't even want to be on the lease for? If you can't let go for yourself, do it for Jabber - he has shown you and your son years of support and respect and now it is your turn to protect the respect that is do him.

While I understand where you are coming from...I have to admit this offended me.

#1, I didn't ASK my husband to take on my child. In fact, he suggested adopting long before it happened. HE did that. Not me. I would NEVER have suggested it. It isn't as though HE has supported MY son. WE have supported OUR son. HE adopted him. His idea. His choice. His child. End of discussion. #2, Not that it matters, since all our accounts and all our bills are joint - I make somewhat more money than he does! I am not supported by my husband...any more than he's supported by me. When the time comes to support and do things for his parents...don't think I'll bat an eye. Because his responsibility is MY responsibility.

My husband is the finest, most honorable man I know. I thank God every day that I have him. But I don't OWE him for coming into my life any more than he owes me! So basically, playing the "Oh poor Jabber taking on all this" just ticks me off.

That being said, I DO understand the math. I fully understand that every penny we give him - WE not Jabber - is money WE don't have for ourselves. Don't think I wasn't angry as all get out at his "stealing from you isn't as bad because you have money" attitude. We're working right now on a plan to pay down some debt...which actually increased our student loan payments and lowered our disposable income...so yes, every $285. we spend on him is money we can't pay off a credit card with...can't save for retirement and can't use for fun. This isn't a new concept.

So while I admit your reasoning is sound...making it sound like I'm somehow taking advantage of my husband just makes me mad.

That is so true. For a while, I could not offer difficult child one single thing. If I did, the floodgates were opened. I have often said my difficult child is the MOST PERSISTENT PERSON IN THE WORLD and if he would only turn that persistence in the right direction he could be President of these United States. Or whatever he wanted to be.

I have to agree - it's looking like this to me. We don't hear anything to speak of for days....even a week or so. Then last week it was taking his friend to the ER. Then it was the water leak thing at the apartment. Then this. It seems that if we say yes to anything the floodgates open. Of course, now he doesn't come right out and ask...instead he just complains about things. He doesn't say, "I've run out of food and I was wondering if you have anything you could let me have to tide me over until Monday?" Instead he cries about how he's hungry and scared and doesn't know what to do. I guess this is what we get for telling him not to ask.

***

This is again, one of those threads I'm starting to regret starting. I'd kind of like people to recognize that, even though it didn't and still doesn't feel like the right thing to do...I DIDN'T give him anything!

 

[nlj]

I also don't agree with the red cross basket. Unfortunately, with kids like ours, if you give in the slightest little bit, they take it as your resolve is crumbling and they barrel in for more. If they see the slightest weakness, they see it as a win.

I wasn't giving advice Kathy, if you read my post again. I was just saying what I do.
I don't think we can generalise about what all our kids will do or not do.
They're all different, unique kids in different, unique situations and we're all different, unique parents.
I always think that the strength of this forum is the sharing of experiences, rather than telling others what to do or not do.

This is again, one of those threads I'm starting to regret starting

Interesting thread though Lil !

 

[Lil]

I always think that the strength of this forum is the sharing of experiences, rather than telling others what to do or not do.

I agree whole-heartedly.

I do, sometimes, get annoyed or offended by some comments. I have to take a step back and remind myself that everyone is different and we all post from our perspective and we are all at our own place of acceptance and detachment...of lack thereof.

Your child is very different from mine. I have to say, Kathy isn't wrong when it comes to my son...when she said, "if you give in the slightest little bit, they take it as your resolve is crumbling and they barrel in for more". Seems like mine does that. I'd love to be able to give him a care package without it opening the floodgates...but sadly it is looking like that's not the case.