Another trip to the emergency room ~ difficult child overdosed

trinityroyal

Well-Known Member
The real advantage to SSI would be that she would be eligible for Medicaid. If the Affordable Health Care act is not repealed or dismantled, difficult child would be able to get covered by insurance in 2013. That is not meant as a political message. That is a mother hoping that her mentally ill daughter can finally be covered by insurance and be able to get some help with her illness which we don't have to pay for and get emergency care without huge bills that she will never be able to pay back.

Kathy, regardless of where anyone stands on the political front, no one can fault you for wanting to get help for your daughter without bankrupting yourself. Don't beat yourself up over that.
Hoping that your difficult child stabilizes and that you're able to find some programs that will help her. I think that involuntary commitment may be the best route.

Keeping you all in my thoughts and prayers.
Trinity
 

Kathy813

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Did she apologize? No, she said that she wouldn't do it again because of what it did to us but those are just empty words she thinks she should say.

I would say she is more fascinated by it. She keeps asking for details of the event like how blue was blue when husband told her that her face and nails were blue. Or whether her eyes were open. She says that it hasn't hit her as if it was a big deal because she has no memory of it. difficult child describes it as if she took a nap.

difficult child says that people that she has shared this with keep telling her that it wasn't her time and that she is here on earth for a reason. She said, "Now they expect me to cure cancer or something."

I checked out the residential treatment center that Dr. Phil talks about and it looks wonderful. It costs $22,500 for just the first month. I told that to difficult child and she said that we would just be wasting our money because if wouldn't work if she didn't want to go. I also sent an email to a residential treatment center in Florida that her DBT therapist highly recommends and asked for the cost. They haven't emailed me back. difficult child seemed to like the sound of that one because it is on the beach.

For the time being, we are working hard on getting difficult child on Abilify. I filled out the paperwork for low income people assistance and husband is taking it to her p-doctor himself. She is also going to see her DBT therapist twice a week while we try to figure this out.

There is a IOP/PHP program in town that is over an hour away that the DBT therapist also recommends. It would be quite a drive if difficult child wanted to continue living at home. husband is supposed to be scheduling an assessment for difficult child.

~Kathy
 
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PatriotsGirl

Guest
Purely my opinion, Kathy, I am certainly not living this. But I would not throw another dollar at the problem. It just does not sound like she is vested enough for any of it. How do you know once she realizes that it is not just a day at the beach, she won't check herself out? I mean 22k for one month!!??? That is positively ridiculous. I am sitting here with my jaw to the floor right now! How can people justify that???
 

Kathy813

Well-Known Member
Staff member
husband just found out that the intown IOP/PHP programs are hardly less expensive than the residential programs. The PHP (6-hour per day) is $12000 a month and the IOP (3 hours per day) is $8000 a month.

I am just at a loss here.

~Kathy
 
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PatriotsGirl

Guest
husband just found out that the intown IOP/PHP programs are hardly less expensive than the residential programs. The PHP (6-hour per day) is $12000 a month and the IOP (3 hours per day) is $8000 a month.

I am just at a loss here.

~Kathy

That is ROBBERY. How do they possibly justify that???
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
They justify it because the only ones paying up are either so rich they don't care, or have insurance that pays for it.

REAL help is very hard to find.
 

recoveringenabler

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Kathy, have you checked with NAMI? I have no clue as to any Residential Treatment Center (RTC) options through them, but when I was investigating options for my daughter, NAMI had an offshoot here in CA. called Buckelew which assisted MI folks with options. The SW told me about one housing option in the next town which provided a room where my difficult child could stay for up to two years while receiving therapy and talking to professionals about options. NAMI is where I began my searching for options. Just a thought..............
 

Kathy813

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I emailed the head of NAMI for the county I live in on Friday and not heard back. I don't think Georgia has those kind of services but I will definitely look into it. difficult child is not being cooperative today so it makes me really wonder if I should do anything at all.
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
difficult child's inpatient rehab was $25,000 for 60 days. The outpatient program we tried before the inpatient was $500 a day. That would have been $10,000, and it did not include visits from the psychiatrist. She only lasted two days in that.

I hate to say this but I agree with PG. I know you are desperately trying to find a program for her but Kathy you are working much harder than she is. She doesn't want to get sober now. Her comments make that clear. Don't get me wrong, I get it. My difficult child is the same way. She would love to go to a rehab on the beach....for the beach and nothing else. And I do know how hard it is to finally say enough is enough.

I don't have any answers so I really should just not comment but I hate to see you jeopardise your life savings when she isn't willing to even accept the fact that she could have died...dead....never to wake up again, instead of complain that they cut her shirt.

I care about you and hope you are not offended by what I said. My husband and I have said we will not pay one more penny for any treatemnt for our difficult child until and unless we are convinced that she is serious about getting sober, and even then we are very limited in what we will support.

Nancy
 

Kathy813

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Nancy, I never would take offense at anything you said. I understand what you are saying. What keeps holding me back from agreeing with you is that I am convinced that there is a severe mental health component here that complicates everything. She can't work on the mental health component if she is using drugs but she can't stop abusing drugs/alcohol because of the mental illness which makes her turn to drugs to self-medicate. I feel like we are on a merry-go-round. I have been doing more research on Borderline (BPD) and it is so clear that difficult child is borderline.

I did talk to the place in Florida that her DBT therapist recommends and it sounds tailor made for difficult child. It is a dual diagnosis treatment center treating both the substance abuse issues and the mental illness. DBT is part of the program so difficult child could continue with that, also. They have a great deal of experience working with people with Borderline (BPD). husband and I have some hard decisions to make.

I truly understand what you are all saying. However, my daughter was dead for all practical purposes on Friday. Do you really think I could enjoy my retirement if my daughter died and I knew that I had walked away from an effort to help her because of money? What if she had cancer and no insurance and was told that there was only a 30% to save her if we spent $50,000. Would husband and I hesitate to spend the money?

I guess I should clarify that spending this money would not wipe out our retirement savings and we also have a nice pension through teacher retirement. We would not be really jeopardizing our retirement . . . just would not have as big a cushion as we wanted to have.

~Kathy
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Kathy, if you have the means and it won't financially devastate you then that's a different story. I tend to look at things from my perspective and we have no pension plan since husband is self employed. Therefore we have to have in savings everything we need to live in our retirement years and we have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on trying to get difficult child help. I too would make much different choices if I have a retirement fund to rely on.

It's a difficult decision for sure, but go into it with no regrets so if she does leave the program or it does not help, you don't have resentments.

Nancy
 

DDD

Well-Known Member
Two more thoughts, Kathy. First of all feel free to PM me regarding the program. I blew bucks on what was suppose to be great residential and in fact wasn't. Secondly, have you had a neuro/psychiatric done for her as an adult. It seems like there is alot of vagueness in her diagnosis and her diagnosis is terribly important in choosing a program. I care. Hugs DDD
 
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toughlovin

Guest
Kathy, Please email me with the name of the program... I have looked at a number of programs in FL and my difficult child was in several of them. I think the best program he was in for Borderline (BPD) issues was the one in CA although it is very expensive.

I think our difficult children are similar... I had the same feeling about my difficult child - he needs help with both his personality issues as well as his substance use. Now I still feel that way but I have also come to the place that he has to be the one to really be willing to do the work for recovery and that includes a real serious willingness to work on the substance abuse piece.

I also know for me that I had to get to the place of feeling like I had tried everything and that there was really nothing more I could do.... to get any sense of peace about the situation. And it is a very fragile peace at that.

TL
 

Srcsweet2

New Member
I realize this thread isn't about the cost ...but my goodness I could never afford that and my son's insurance is so limited as to where he can go. He too has mental illness in addition to drug use and as you said uses to self medicate and has for years.
He did ask once to go to a private rehab but it was only briefly then he changed his mind and went to the clinic that his insurance covers which is Sstar ..it is a good program just not a long term one....I really had no idea they were that much money just how does the average family afford that...I would love to think if he wanted to go I would find a way but honestly I just don't think I could....makes me feel as helpless as I did when he was in school ...he had learning dissabilities and truly could have done so much better in a school that specialize in kids like him but I could not afford it ...I always wondered if things would have been different if he had had the chance ...well I do hope that this is something that your daughter wants that is alot of money to spend if she isn't ready .....thinking of you ...
 

lovemysons

Well-Known Member
Kathy,

I was SO happy to hear that you all are trying to get your daughter to take Abilify.
It has truly been a wonder drug for me...no more extreme depression or mania and no more high anxiety.

The down side is that I have lost some of the intensity that used to make my personality much more "colorful", lol. And my "creative side" has desolved some too, sigh. I have also gained 50 lbs...but it IS worth it. I do have to be regularly monitored (blood work) to check for diabetes, etc.

It's pretty fast acting so I think you would start to see a difference...difficult child would begin to FEEL a difference within 2 weeks. At least that's how it worked for me.

Another plus is that I am SO MUCH LESS arguementative than I used to be...things just roll off my back for the most part now. THAT could be something to really forward too with a difficult child, huh?

Anyway, wanted to let you know some of my experience.
I'm rooting for your family whatever you decide to do.
hugs,
LMS
 

Kathy813

Well-Known Member
Staff member
LMS, I won't tell her about your weight gain. That is one of the reasons she is resisting taking it. I've heard others say good things, too.
 

Giulia

New Member
Before taking Ritalin, psychiatrists gave me Abilify (it was the wrong medication by the way. I got the wrong diagnosis, the wrong medication, the wrong therapy, the wrong everything...).

I can clearly tell you that I didn't gain weight with Abilify.
In fact, I lost the 12 kilos gained with Zyprexa (and I stopped sleeping 13 to 15 hours/day. Zyprexa was obviously the wrong medication too).
I was back to my pre-medications weight (43 kilos for 1.52m, something like 95 lbs for 5'0 ft).

From what I've known, Abilify is the most weight neutral statistically.
Zyprexa or Risperdal are far worse about the weight gain.

However, it does not mean that anyone can guarantee that your daughter won't gain weight. But no one cannot guarantee that your daughter will gain weight on Abilify.
No one cannot guarantee neither the weight neutral, nor the weight gain for your daughter. At least, not in the current medical knowledge.

It's not because statistically, Abilify is weight neutral that weight gain is not a possible side effect for a certain person.
I didn't gain weight on Abilify, but other people did gain weight on Abilify.


What you can tell your daughter about the weight gain is that you can help her as much as possible to stay healthy on Abilify (I don't want to say "prevent the weight gain" because I come to a point that we should stop obsessing ourselves with the number on the scale).
You can help her eat a balanced diet and exercise with her.
I can also advise you to help focus about how does she feel instead of focusing about a number on the scale. A number on the scale is one thing, like blood pressure is one thing. But we cannot summarize health with weight, blood pressure etc etc...
Help her focus on healthy eating, exercise, feeling good about herself for her own sake, not for the sake of weight loss.

You can also tell your daughter that beauty goes beyond physical appearance. Beauty is what she can spiritually give to other people.
She can be beautiful even under Abilify and even with a few more kilos due to Abilify.
But if she wants to be beautiful, she has to come and solve her issues (mental health and substance abuse).
Currently, after the damages that my ex-psychiatrist did, I come to this point. I still have a lot of work to repair such damages. It is hard work, yes, I won't lie. But it worthes the effort.

I add that you can use her wish not to gain weight in order to be beautiful as an incentive to sort out her issues. Instead of seeing it as a problem, you can also see it as a solution.
Maybe this incentive can work when all the "normal" incentives fail. Who knows ?
 

Kathy813

Well-Known Member
Staff member
You can help her eat a balanced diet and exercise with her.

My difficult child is 27-years-old and will not take my advice on eating a balanced diet or be willing to exercise with me.

Guila, I know you are trying to help but your advice is very simplistic and not realistic. Do you really think I haven't said all of those things to my daughter over the years?
 

Giulia

New Member
Guila, I know you are trying to help but your advice is very simplistic and not realistic. Do you really think I haven't said all of those things to my daughter over the years?

Okay, I may not have expressed myself the way I did want.

The problem is not only the telling.
Like you said more articulately than I said, the problem is not "telling". The problem is being heard.
The problem is not the content, but the form you use to convey the message.

If you say : "You have to eat a balanced diet and exercise to feel well", the content is there, the form is absent.
So, she cannot hear what you say because it does not mean anything to her.

If you say it over and over but stick on this message, of course, it will be the same yada yada message she hears from doctors (and the same yada yada message I hear from doctors).
The problem here is not "What", the problem here is "How".
We can phrase our key question : "How can we make her hear that she needs a healthy diet and exercise to feel well ?".
I didn't articulate as well as I intended on my previous message. I am sorry for the offend I caused.

What worked for me is being involved and being focused on one tiny change at time.

If you drag her to go cycle and she hates cycling, it won't work.
Finding the right exercise is a lot of trial and error. Like medicines, like finding a doctor, like anything in life.
She loves taking care of animals ? Then use it as a tool to exercise. Running with dogs, horse riding etc etc...
She loves dancing ? Be it.
She loves video games ? Then, a Wii can be a fantastic tool to exercise.
What I can advise you is : don't try to reinvent the wheel.
To make changes in diet and exercise, a complete makeover cannot work if it's completely disconnected to the person's habits. If you say someone to go to the gym whereas the person hates being closed indoors and the gym is too far, the person won't stick to it and will slip to her old ways.

For the healthy and balanced diet, you can observe what she likes most to eat and swap the recipes to make them healthier and more nutritious.
She likes French fries and hamburger with soda ? You can turn it into French fries in the oven, steak with a tiny bit of cheese and a fruit smoothie instead of her soda. If you want, I have a recipe for French fries in the oven and not in a frying pan.
She likes meat loaf ? You can include veggies in the meat loaf, and accompany it with mash potatoes (cooked with olive oil and water instead of butter and milk).

I know that it sounds simplistic and irrealistic when you have so much on your plate. But think that one tiny change can have huge benefits. Keep for some time the tiny change, then add another tiny change etc etc...
It looks like eating an elephant. How do you eat an elephant ? You eat it one tiny bite at time.
Same about the healthy diet and exercise. One tiny change at time.

I can tell you for being on the other side that when my mother wants to drag me on a yoga course whereas I hate it, it cannot work. When we started to find what I like and what she likes, then we could work on healthier habits together.

If you want your message about a healthy diet and exercise to reach her thick skull, start by focusing with what she already has, not what you want her to have.
If you want her to eat boiled vegetables and she hates boiled vegetables, it won't work.
If you drag your daughter to the gym and she hates the gym, it won't work.



Also, what I said about not obsessing over the number on the scale is still valid. Focus on health and feeling good, not with irrealistic models she sees in magazines.


So, my sentence to conclude all the ranting is when you want to convey a message about healthy eating and exercise, think and focus on one tiny change at time, and work with what you already have.
I can tell you that having someone who helped me by focusing at one tiny change at time was the most valuable help I could receive from people around me.


Take care
 
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