TerryJ2
Well-Known Member
Shootings in other countries' elementary schools? Scotland.
http://www2.needham.k12.ma.us/nhs/cur/kane97/P1/iwdc/iwdc.p1.html
http://www2.needham.k12.ma.us/nhs/cur/kane97/P1/iwdc/iwdc.p1.html
Are any of our kids at this school that had the shooting?
- Thread starter Tiapet
- Start date
DDD
Well-Known Member
Am I the only one who has raised an Asperger's kid who is shaking their head each time it's said or written "but AS does not include a tendency to violence"? So far I haven't heard one person say but often there are other issues that work in tandem with AS. difficult child#2 is not violent. He is a loner who has rarely been able to make friends. He has gone thru stages of being totally fascinated by knives. He loves fireworks. He is also impulsive ADHD and late in high school was also diagnosis's as schizoaffective. Rarely does Aspergers's OR any of our diagnosis's stand alone. Lots of times it is fluid.
on the other hand, he is loving and needy. Most of us "know" how complicated difficult children can be. Most of us know that likely his Mom did the best she knew how to do. on the other hand...society wants to sort and classify needs so it's nice and easy. It is NOT nice and easy. Sigh. No I do not think our difficult child#2 would do what Adam did. Adapting to change is not easy for AS kids or adults. Perhaps the fact that his Mom planned to relocate in hopes he would have a better life, in fact lead to the carnage and loss of life.
My heart is heavy. I'm sure MH issues will be cubby holed just like firearms restrictions will be cubby holed. Of course I am sad for the victims and their families. I am even sadder that I can't find reason to hope for improvements in the future. DDD
on the other hand, he is loving and needy. Most of us "know" how complicated difficult children can be. Most of us know that likely his Mom did the best she knew how to do. on the other hand...society wants to sort and classify needs so it's nice and easy. It is NOT nice and easy. Sigh. No I do not think our difficult child#2 would do what Adam did. Adapting to change is not easy for AS kids or adults. Perhaps the fact that his Mom planned to relocate in hopes he would have a better life, in fact lead to the carnage and loss of life.
My heart is heavy. I'm sure MH issues will be cubby holed just like firearms restrictions will be cubby holed. Of course I am sad for the victims and their families. I am even sadder that I can't find reason to hope for improvements in the future. DDD
F
firehorsewoman
Guest
I'm grieving along with the rest of you, along with the country and most of the world....for all of the same reasons most are ...but I think for members here the grief is especially deep....all of the "Adam's mothers" here...all of the tears and heartbreak and doctors appointments and medications and interventions that we share, the support we give each other....so that we may feel some hope for our children, for society...and this crushing blow we were all dealt this past Friday has knocked the wind out of me....has made me wonder if there is hope for my son when the challenges we are up against are so great.
I have posted this before during the years but once again, I am so grateful for this forum, for the support of the other parents here. I have been doubted and debated over the past few days when I have expressed my personal struggles with getting mental health care for my son...when I have given people the facts that, at least where I live, it is easier to obtain a gun than it is mental health care, they tell me that the challenges I have faced getting care for my son are the result of my own "choices"....like choosing to get divorced or to leave the corporate world that was destroying my health. There is so little support for the "Adam's mothers" in the world....even when we bravely reach out. I am so grateful for this site and the other members here. My "soft place to land" for sure.
Hugs
I have posted this before during the years but once again, I am so grateful for this forum, for the support of the other parents here. I have been doubted and debated over the past few days when I have expressed my personal struggles with getting mental health care for my son...when I have given people the facts that, at least where I live, it is easier to obtain a gun than it is mental health care, they tell me that the challenges I have faced getting care for my son are the result of my own "choices"....like choosing to get divorced or to leave the corporate world that was destroying my health. There is so little support for the "Adam's mothers" in the world....even when we bravely reach out. I am so grateful for this site and the other members here. My "soft place to land" for sure.
Hugs
TerryJ2
Well-Known Member
Woo hoo! Look who wrote a column: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/my-life-aspergers/201212/asperger-s-autism-and-mass-murder
DDD
Well-Known Member
I read your post. I appreciate the content. Tonight, however, I am "bone tired" just accepting that what we all know iis obvious the world doesn't know is obvious.
What made me "bone tired" was a segment on tv that showed gun dealers around OUR Country being inudated with telephone calls from Buyers wanting to purchase the same automatic weapon before it is pulled from the market. OMG! This whole thing just makes me sick. DDD
What made me "bone tired" was a segment on tv that showed gun dealers around OUR Country being inudated with telephone calls from Buyers wanting to purchase the same automatic weapon before it is pulled from the market. OMG! This whole thing just makes me sick. DDD
Malika
Well-Known Member
I think we have to remember... that we do not actually know what motivated Adam Lanza. Okay, the labels of Asperger's and autism have been touted around but no-one seems very sure that these really applied to him and that he was receiving specific help. What would have to be have been involved was a profound level of rage - and others, not just those who have been classified as mentally ill or suffering from a diagnosed condition, have experienced profound rage and gone on these sort of rampages... Thankfully, without being complacent, there is I believe no reason to believe that difficult children in general are going to skirt with this kind of violence or that that is the only issue here. Just my take.
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
I think the media is feeding this frenzy in a maddening way. They have no clue about anything and some of them are just out to sensationalize the story. It is what sells a story. It matters not what the story is. If someone does any sort of something odd, they jump on the bandwagon to say the person must have had some sort of addiction to something or they had some form of personality disorder which they have no way of knowing because they are not even close to having ever diagnosing this person, or they listen to a few people who knew the person and try to pigeon hole the person into diagnosis they read about in the DSM. That is much like saying well she said her belly hurt so she must have had ovarian cancer.
There could have been so much more going on with this boy. So much more going on with all of the people involved in every person who commits these types of things.
To equate one thing is ludicrous. Could it be what they had for breakfast that day or what type of jeans they all wore. Of course not. Though the color black does seem to be a factor. I wouldnt say black means you are more likely to cause murders. The one thing that is behind all of these things in mental illnesses. It doesnt matter how people are killed, they have all had some form of mental illness and the parents could not access proper mental health care for these kids without being told the only way to do that was to have them charged with a crime. That is so wrong. So wrong. We need better programs out there. I hope this sparks the change we need.
There could have been so much more going on with this boy. So much more going on with all of the people involved in every person who commits these types of things.
To equate one thing is ludicrous. Could it be what they had for breakfast that day or what type of jeans they all wore. Of course not. Though the color black does seem to be a factor. I wouldnt say black means you are more likely to cause murders. The one thing that is behind all of these things in mental illnesses. It doesnt matter how people are killed, they have all had some form of mental illness and the parents could not access proper mental health care for these kids without being told the only way to do that was to have them charged with a crime. That is so wrong. So wrong. We need better programs out there. I hope this sparks the change we need.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
I just heard the massacre in CT compared to 911...a domestic 911. OMG. I agree. I'm so tired and sick.
Regardless of any excuses or the odd school shooting in another country (we have had tons, not one or two), I hope for an assault rifle ban. We don't need one and it turns my stomach that people are ordering the same gun that Adam used. Do they think he's some sort of hero?
Regardless of any excuses or the odd school shooting in another country (we have had tons, not one or two), I hope for an assault rifle ban. We don't need one and it turns my stomach that people are ordering the same gun that Adam used. Do they think he's some sort of hero?
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
Just curious MWM, which do you think had the biggest impact on what happened that day. The fact that Adam Lanza was mentally ill or the fact that guns are available legally in this country?
Janet - I'd have to say that the combination of mental illness and other background factors we don't know about, plus access to assault weapons was the basis for this tragedy. I don't see why there shouldn't be a general ban on owning assault weapons. But not having any assault weapons available won't prevent tragedies, it just reduces the number of victims.
I am ****** off at the mother. I just don't understand why anyone with a son/daughter who has mental issues would put a gun any gun, in their child's hands. I know when my difficult child has thrown things at me or hit me, I felt threatened and scared. I would go through my house and find everything sharp, and lock it up as I know many of you have also. I would never go get a gun and put it in my house, with my daughter's issues with impulsitivity and occasional outbursts. Only military should be allowed to own anything like this. I want people to be able to hunt for their own food, and I think you should be able to protect yourself in your home. I also feel terrible for the killer's father and brother that will live with this for the rest of their lives. The media is getting on my last nerves. They printed so much stuff that really wasn't true. I even read somewhere that the killer/monster had a sister that was missing. Never heard anything about that either.
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
Jody you know your child can be violent. This mother had no inkling hers was. Just because he was bright and a loner doesnt make him violent. If someone knows that they have a violent person in their home then they shouldnt have any weapons in their home that anyone else can access. And for most purposes people should keep guns with either trigger locks on them or stored in a locked case.
Janet I'm not sure that is correct. I believe we have to wait for all the evidence to come in but he was on medication and it does appear that the mother was very concerned about her son and he was under a psychiatrist's care at times. I watched a lot of the coverage over the past few days and several doctors have said that there should be no guns in a house where there is a person with any kind of mental disorder and they would never suggest or agree with taking a child with mental disorders target shooting and that they constantly recommend to their patients parents that guns should not be available. I'm not trying to blame the mother but in my heart I find it very hard to understand her thinking on this.
I don't know what's true about that either. One young man who was a babysitter for the murderer, said his mother told him to never turn his back on him and to keep him in his sight at all times. They said that she was very private about her issues with her son. I came from a wealthy family and not saying this is true in all cases, but sometimes they will not seek treatment, they prefer to not have the shame on the "perfect family" and don't even seek any treatment. Who knows what his diagnosis is. Even though he was 20 and legally an adult our kids with issues are sometimes far below that maturity wise. Maybe I am just looking for someone to blame, I don't know, I am angry and saddened by this complete waste. I am sorry she lost her life too (mother) horrible. I just wish she had used better sense when it came to her guns, and locking them up for the person who had the permit to buy and own the guns. If she had this might not have happened on the large scale that it did.
Fran
Former desparate mom
I also got the impression that he had a constant aide with him in school and that there serious concerns. I get that but most of our kids have major meltdowns. Even n/t kids have tantrums but difficult child's always have bigger ones. Common sense is to not have anything that would encourage a difficult child to act out. If he were an addict she wouldn't have kept alcohol or drugs around.
I agree with Nancy in that we have no real evidence. Besides the mother suffered the ultimate consequence to her choice to leave guns unlocked.
I agree with Nancy in that we have no real evidence. Besides the mother suffered the ultimate consequence to her choice to leave guns unlocked.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
I'm not against people owning guns, but you have to use common sense. I'd say the fact that his mother, who knew he was not "right", had loaded guns at his disposal AND the fact that this child is far more than just autistic...he was seriouisly mentally ill. They are both big issues, Janet. I begrudge NOBODY the right to hunt (I live in hunting country) or own a simple handgun for protection (we are thinking of buying one). But this mother should have known better than to have ANY guns, let alone an assault rifle, not locked up safe and hidden from a child she was well aware had many problems. Does that help? I am not for a gun ban and I think we need to have more supports and easier-to-find=and-afford supports for the severely mentally ill. Does that explain? I think we actually agree more than differ.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
I saw a clinician on CNN (been a news junkie since this happened) and he dared to say that maybe the "Aspergers" was really antisocial personality disorder (psychopathy). It would be an easy mistake to make since APDs don't show emotions (they don't HAVE emotions) and ASDers can have deep emotions but had trouble showing them and sometimes, especially in Aspergers, have a flat affect. Aspies have consciences unless they have deeper, darker underlying conditions. I'm not convinced this kid had Aspergers, but the media is going to run with it anyway.
About the mother, ironically, she contributed to her own death. I know she didn't mean to, but she did.
