Arghhhh... the ups and downs dealing with difficult child

Discussion in 'Substance Abuse' started by toughlovin, Apr 22, 2012.

  1. toughlovin

    toughlovin Guest

    Hi all,

    Yes I had a nice weekend away with hubby. Worried about both kids somewhat, didn't hear much from my easy child daughter which means she is having a good time and heard nothing from difficult child which was probably a good thing.

    He did call tonight (after we were back home). He is miserable at detox. Really struggling and does not think they know what they are doing. According to him they are giving him methadone which helps for about 20 minutes, he does not think they are giving him enough. He is withdrawing from opiates which he has not had to do before... he told me this stuff you get addicted to really quickly. The last time I talked to him he said he had been doing percosets but I really think it is heroin and he just didnt want to admit that to me.

    So the way he described the place it sounded like a state hospital... and I was feeling worried and sorry for him. He asked if I could look up this place he had seen a sign for and call him back. So I looked t up and it was for some training program. So I looked up info on another very well respected place in yet another state. He says he needed to get out of where he is because he either is having 12 step progrmas shoved down his throat or drugs being pushed at him.

    So here I was feeling sorry for him, wondering if we should pay for yet another treatment program, getting sucked in once again!!!

    I called him back.... told him the first place was not a tx program. Told him about the other place and gave him the number.... at which point he started in about would I have to stay in some foresaken place and not come back. I said I don't know it depends on how you do. He was obviously angry.... then he told me to look up holistic recovery programs, that 12 step programs are "retarded".... I said "I don't know" you are going to have to figure it out... at which point he swore at me and hung up!!!

    Well then I stopped being sucked in. That is the good thing when he gets angry when he doesnt get me to do what he wants... it puts things back into perspective.

    So I am feeling rather hopeless tonight.... here he is wanting an easy way out of drug addiction.. and he wants me to fix it for him... and he is not serious really about recovering... he just wants to stop being dopesick.. which I am sure is miserable. I am sure the detox place is making sure he is ok medically but they may not be too sympathetic too him.... because I am sure he has a real attitude and is giving them sass that they don't know what they are doing.

    So no I did not try to call him back and I am not going to. He will probably call me eventually.

    He did bring out the feelings of guilt I have about sending him to a TBS after wilderness... except that I know without a doubt when I think of where he was at... that he would have ended up in this same place even younger than he is now. It did give him some time..... but really this having a drug addicted kid sucks big time!

  2. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    I am so so sorry that things haven't changed. {{hugs}} Stay strong
  3. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Yes it does suck big time TL. I'm feeling pretty hopeless too. I don't even know what to say, I just don't have many helpful comments these days. I have been feeling a bit numb lately. I guess that's good. I'm sorry your difficult child wants the easy way out. Does he really think you are just there to research how he can go into painless recovery?

    Our difficult child's are so sad. They are in so much pain but they won't do what they need to do to get out of that pain.

  4. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I'm sorry. It is so hard. It does suck, I agree. ((((HUGS))))
  5. Calamity Jane

    Calamity Jane Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry. I hope at least you enjoyed your short respite with-husband.

    I pray that you're mistaken about the heroin - I hope he's not involved with that, but who knows? Hang in there, TL, you're doing great. Hope easy child is having fun at Disney.
  6. I am so sorry you are going through this. I can't imagine the pain that this causes.

    Please know that I will keep you (TL and Nancy) and your families in my prayers today.
  7. PatriotsGirl

    PatriotsGirl Guest

    My heart is with you TL. Good for you for not calling back!!
  8. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It


    I do know a bit about methadone and how it is used in drug treatment programs. The suspicion of heroin is exactly right if he is truly being given methadone. Methadone is FAR stronger than percoset (oxycodone and tylenol) and it is a strange jump to methadone to detox off of percoset. Not unless you have used for a LONG time and probably have actual medically based chronic pain issues. It is used for oxycontin users, and that is also oxycodone, but it is a stronger form bc it is extended release broken down to release immediately.

    Also, given that he has no job, no $ from you, and not sure how he is getting $ each day, it would be very expensive to get enough percoset/oxycodone to stay out of withdrawal. it just is. Heroin, sadly, is vastly less expensive. So you get higher for less money, which is what most addicts would want.

    He is wanting to get high, not clean and his claims about the methadone prove it. How? Methadone stays in your system for more than 20 hrs usually. MOST addicts do not experience withdrawal if given a single daily dose until 25-40 hours after the last dose. One reason that addicts claim methadone isn't working is because it doesn't make you feel high for nearly as long as other opiates, even though it IS in your system and it IS working. It stops a lot of the cramping, vomiting, and other symptoms of withdrawal. (I know this stuff because I take methadone for pain mgmt and refused to take it until I spoke with my doctor and with an addiction doctor so I knew what I was getting into.)

    Detox IS miserable, even brutal. Your difficult child is likely getting what he needs to handle detox with-o putting himself into medical danger with-o enough medications to make it 'fun' and 'easy'. His efforts to get you to pay for him to be elsewhere are nothing but an attempt to get $ out of you so that he can use it to get high and not go to treatment, or to get to someplace where he can con the staff and use. If changing his place of treatment was going to work, it would probably have already worked for him at one of the sober houses or treatments in the past.

    He very much does not sound like he wants to be clean and sober. The stuff about having 12 steps shoved down his throat is pretty typical and another smokescreen for "I don't wanna stop using".

    Have you stopped to think about his claim of having "drugs forced on him"? Give it a second. What problem is he getting help with? Why are street drugs, drugs that he has NO clue what they truly are OR what they will truly do to him, fine and great to put into his body but prescription medications to help treat a drug problem and keep him somewhat comfortable and SAFE are not? It is just fiiiiiiiiiiiine to take spice and other illegal drugs that could kill him with a single dose but it isn't okay to take medications prescribed by a doctor, made in factories that are clean and are all of a standard potency? Gee, have you stopped shaking your head over the absolute stupidity of that statement? The detox is shoving drugs on him but wasn't his complaint in the start of the conversation that they were not giving him enough methadone? Wow. I wonder f he has any clue how illogical that is? Or was he just saying anything that he could think of to get you to pay for something for him?

    I am glad you tossed this in HIS lap. You and husband have found and paid for so much for him, and he has chosen to not do the work. Please don't get sucked in enough to keep finding rehabs and thinking about helping plan things like that walk across the country that he spoke of. These things are going to be nonstop and designed to get you to pay for something so that he can sell/trade them for drug money. You truly have done everything a parent can do short of killing anyone who gives/sells drugs to him. Now he needs to be a man and handle this.

    He was able to find money for booze and drugs, even when living on the beach a while back between sober home stays. He is resourceful enough to find a way to pay for treatment/detox/etc... when it is his idea and he WANTS to quit. Until then? There is nothing you haven't already done.

    by the way, if you are worried about him eating, I knew 2 sociology students back in the late 80's who spent a year panhandling to write a thesis on that. They each made over $40,000 in that year and they only panhandled part of the time, not full time. They worked NO other job than that and had no family help. They had a nice apt that they shared, they paid their bills - even credit card bills! People are generous if they think you really need help, and that is the cushion our kids land on.

    I am sorry this is so hard for yo.
  9. toughlovin

    toughlovin Guest

    Well I had a LOT of trouble sleeping last night... its been a while since it has been like that. I kept thinking about AA and how many people here had trouble with Alanon and maybe AA is not the right program for my son. He may be right he needs something else... who knows. So I went looking on the internet and found a bunch of info on non-AA rehab programs. I found a referral place for I decided to call my son back this morning. I just cant leave him to suffer with absolutely no support as he did get himself to detox.

    So we had a better conversation this morning. He has trouble making calls so I did agree to find out what info I could but I told him there is no way I am finding the place for him. It has got to be his decision. He agreed. We talked about what he didn't like about AA and it matches up with some of what I found on the internet. I do think maybe he needs to try something different. Truth is I don't care what program he goes to, I just want him to find a way to get better.

    I did ask him to be honest with me about what he was now addicted to. He said it is roxies.... gosh those of us on this board learn about all kinds of new drugs we have never heard of don't we? Anyway I looked it up on the internet again and it sounds like it is an opiate, a form of oxycotin. And it is highly addictive and definitely causes serious withdrawal.

    He thinks they may just discharge him to the street.... and he said if they discharge him while he is still dopesick he will definitely use again because being dopesick is worse than anything he has been through. I said hopefully if you get clean you will realize you don't want to go through this again and he agreed.

    I also did tell him that i did not like him hanging up on me yesterday. That his dad and I love him more than anyone and we love him no matter what he has done. I think he heard that.

    I am sure he has an attitude at this place because he thinks they don't know what they are doing and I am sure that is not helping their attitude towards him. It doesn't sound like a great place and he has yet to learn how to work with people and places he disagrees with.

    So anyway I feel a little better about our conversation this morning....and i will try and help him find some treatment.

    This still sucks though.

  10. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    I am so sorry for all this worry you are feeling but glad you had a nice weekend with hubbie. -RM
  11. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    My difficult child has the same problem with AA. I looked up non-AA meetings and that is how we found Smart Recovery. When I went to the meeting with her, many there said that hated AA. One man said he didn't like saying that he was powerless. He said he did have the power to stay clean. Another one didn't like the forced belief in a higher power.

    Anyway, I also saw rehab programs that said that they were non 12-step programs. Maybe that would be better for your son.

    The young man that I described in my post on the meeting was addicted to roxies. He said it was a very popular drug with young people right now. He was trying to go cold turkey because he didn't have insurance. Others at the meeting that had been addicted to opiates said it was one of the most horrible withdrawals that you could go through.

    At least your son has medical supervision while he is detoxing. I hope he takes advantage of it to get clean. I think an inpatient rehab program is essential once he detoxes.

    It sounds like you are handling this great. Detached but concerned.

  12. pinevalley

    pinevalley Member

    TL: I'm glad that you had a relaxing week-end with your husband, before you had to jump right back into dealing with your difficult child's crisis. And yes, I totally agree that it really sucks to have a drug addicted kid! This is NOT what any of us imagined all those years ago when we were so busy with cute toddlers!

    I am sending you prayers so that your difficult child can make it through the detox program, and many HUGS for you. You are doing a great job with not enabling your son.
  13. exhausted

    exhausted Active Member

    TL, I am so sorry. This is a burden that I would not wish on anyone. I am actually glad you looked into other things. I think 12 step programs are for those in recovery. Until you are truelly sold on recovery-there is little advice mostly sharing and drilling in of the steps. In his current condition, he needs more support and to learn to enjoy life again. I think they forget to laugh and love the simple things. Good programs give them all kinds of sober hobby choices and other ways to cope. I know he has learned these in the past but nothing will work until he gets to his core issues, and decides to heal. Detox would stink no matter where he was. Hopefully each day will get better.

    A hug to you.
  14. toughlovin

    toughlovin Guest

    Ok another update... sigh.... I spent a lot of time on the phone today looking into non AA programs. I talked to a really nice guy at this referral place who told me that Roxies (the opiate my son is addicted to) is more powerful than heroin. Well thats just great! Anyway I looked into one program which sounded really great.... and just right for my difficult child but when I looked more I found a lot of negative reviews and info that really made me pause. So I looked at another program which also sounds good although more expensive....can you tell I am getting invested into where he goes and that we have sort of decided to let him try one more treatment place that maybe is a different approach.

    Tried to call him at the detox in the middle of the day but they are very strict about when they can have phone calls. So he called us back this evening. He is still feeling lousy... I told him about the programs. He either wants to stay where he is or come back up here... he doesn't want to go yet somewhere else. He cut me off pretty quickly and said to email him what I found out, and when he gets discharged he will go the library and look stuff up. He is afraid we will send him somewhere new and he will be stuck there (which I can understand).

    Anyway I worry about him being discharged and back on the street as I think he will use again and maybe at this point that is his plan.

    But I realized he has asked me to back off, to send him the info I have and let him make the decision and so that is what I have to do..... I don't think it is good that he wants to be discharged before making any plan. In fact I think it is a terrible idea..... but he doesn't trust me and he probably wants a chance to use again and is not serious. And there is nothing I can do.

    However I have a little more internal peace in that I feel like I tried to find him options but as we all know I can't make him take them.

    It has been interesting talking to some programs that are non AA programs. Some of what they say makes sense... and I think about how some folks here have really not liked alanon.... and it makes sense to me that for some addicts AA doesn't fit..... and one place told me AA is great for support once you have decided to be sober but it doesnt really get to the why you use drugs in the first place... and all of that makes sense to me.

    So when he is really ready for real treatment we will probably help but I am only going to email him what i find out and we will see where he goes from here.

    And Susie you mentioned those panhandlers.... every time I see a person with a sign by the side of the road I think of my difficult child and wonder if that is how he is getting by??