Article on Dane teen dying of drink, highest rate of teen drinking in Europe

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by MidwestMom, Jan 19, 2009.

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  1. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

  2. Rotsne

    Rotsne Banned

    Yes, he shouldn't have left Denmark. He was cheated by a drug which fools the body to think that he could drink more than his health could take.

    Beware that they cheat turists down there. While Bulgaria has no other options than offering these vacations because their country is destroyed by 50 years of communist rule a huge business like this invites rootless people also. Before Bulgaria it was Ibiza - a Spanish island, who had the title of the binge drinking capital for European youth.

    Denmark is not the only country to sent youth downthere for binge drink vacations. They are offered in most European countries. This death was the first binge-drink related death we had this year. Beside this tragic incident 3 girls got drug raped downthere also and a young girl from Sweden lost her life in a similar matter a couple of months later.

    Our healthcare department has forbidden the travel agencies to have photos of youth below 18 smiling in their ads. As of November 2008 they are not allowed to sell a message about meeting youth from foreign countries in a relaxed environment, so the binge-drinking holidays are now for +18 years only unless the youth lies when entering the website and convince their parents to let them go anyway.

    They are also discoraged to offer "read-holyday vacations", which have been in the market for the last 10 years.

    We are generally trying to keep our youth at home where we have more regulation. It seems that it is a general trend. In the UK they have warned Brits to go abroad to certain countries because the local people have difficulties to understand how normal turists conduct themselves:

    Being a father of two children I would forbid them to leave Denmark until they are 18 unless I travel with them. There are really nothing to see for youth and even when joined by other adults it means to heavy a burden to these adults.

    I would take responsibility for my kids any time. No other adults should bear this burden. Not some staff in a travel agency. Not some other parents. I just hope that other parents see it in the same way.

    This young man who lost his life in Bulgaria was as far as I see it neglected by his parents because they allowed him to leave his country and culture.
  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    What about the high alcohol rates? The most in Europe? That's A LOT of drinking going on.
    So you think young adults should never leave Denmark or else it's the fault of the other country, not a drinking culture? I am shocked that kids can take this kind of mass drinking vacation at all. I suspect, however, that one can drink as much right in the home country at a party if the parents aren't paying attention or if they aren't home.
    Unfortunately, in a drinking culture, this must happen in your country. I know some people die of alcohol poisoning here, and we use less alcohol than you. In fact, you encourage your young to drink. Some people are prone to alcoholism and should not drink at all. There are genetic links to alcoholism. My youngest is adopted and her birthfamily has substance abuse issues. She knows she is at higher risk to abuse drugs/alcohol if she gets involved, but so far does not seem to be one who will. And we certainly aren't about the encourage her.
    Anyway JMO. You got me curious so I looked up Danish teens drinking and saw this and a few other articles, which I won't post. But I was shocked.
  4. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator

    MWM- what's the point of this? Are you trying to pick some kind of fight with Rotsne? FWIW, we don't need to defend our culture and he doesn't need to defend his. They are different than us and do things differently than us. So be it. The nation of Denmark has approximately the same population as the US state of Maryland. Our numbers will never mesh.
  5. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    Cultural differences aside, I cannot understand why any parent our country would allow - encourage, even - teens or anyone else to go on binge drinking holidays. There is no reasoning for it at all.
  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    TM, you're right. We don't have to. However, it does get tiring to read about how we do everything wrong. From now on, I will not take the bait. The posts against RTCs and how our country deals with mental health have gotten to me, I guess. I apologize and will ignore these from now (sigh). I hope, though, that random posts about RTCs (scare tactic posts) are also not given credence here. To me, his posts do nothing to help, but only try to tear us down and tell us what we are doing wrong in his opinion. But I don't need to join in. Thanks for the reminder.
  7. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator

    MWM- The internet is very big place with lots of information (& lots of misinformation) of varying qualities. Personally, I would rather help Rotsne see our mental health system in a more balanced light... both the good and the bad. It may help other lurkers to gain some understanding of the US system, and we can gain some understanding of other systems and cultures as well.
  8. Rotsne

    Rotsne Banned

    Personally I dont mind if some think that our youth are drinking too much.

    Here is the numbers:

    If you look at the other 50 European countries in this survey a lot of them are very the same.

    We are trying to do the same as almost all other countries. Trying to find a strategy to handle crimes and social unrest.

    Maybe I have come off too harsh in some relations. I realized that even down to small things we are very different. I was looking for way to introduce my daughter to the work space and in most countries volunteer work or internships would be a perfect path.


    1) Here internships are heavily guarded by the trade unions. More than 85 percent of the workforce are member of a trade union. It takes forever for them to accept that a person could work for free.
    2) All that just remind of community service make future employers start to check up of criminal records. Community service is for punishment only in a society that pays more than 50 percent of all income in taxes. I have seen schools abroad where community service is a part of the curriculum. It would means no employment or a McJob career for the students if that came out.

    Culture differences are huge.
  9. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    TM, you're so right. I will try to remember :)

    Rotsne, I think drinking is a big problem everywhere, and worse in Europe. It is an issue everywhere, but I can't understand WANTING kids to drink. It is untrue that all kids will drink. I like it better our way, not that it's a guarantee. But many people here do not drink.
  10. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Scary stuff, in any country. What a waste of a young person's life and future. :(
    We have something similar here. It's called Spring Break. :) I am amazed at how many parents allow their kids to fly to the Caribbean and do exactly what the Danish article said. Some parents go along and party just as hard.
    It's like they are aliens. I just can't comprehend it.

    We have worked hard to teach our kids that alcohol can be a danger, or it can be used wisely as a sort of treat, like dessert. It's not something you have to have. But if it's given too much attention, kids will naturally want to experiment. A fine line, indeed.

    We have seen drunks on our streets, my difficult child was accosted by a drunk on a Belgian street, and we have walked through clouds of pot smoke in Amsterdam. (The best aversion technique ever, LOL!) We have also thrown parties at home where we serve wine to guests. No one has ever gotten drunk, but we always make sure the kids hear us question one another as to whether anyone needs a ride home. Nothing to be embarrassed about, just a normal thing, like wearing a seatbelt.

    We are very lucky that so far, the way we have raised our kids has paid off.

    In fact, our easy child has applied to 5 universities and has changed her mind about one, based on their reputation as a party school, which was exemplified by an overnight there on Halloween. She dressed up like a kitty cat and drove all the way there on her own, met up with-a graduate from her HS (who now lives on the U campus) and they went to sororities and other parties.
    easy child was having a great time, feeling very welcome, and in particular, invited to join one particular sorority, until they offered her a beer, and she said, "No thank you, I don't drink."
    The sorority girl sneered and said, "Then maybe you don't want to join our sorority," and walked off in a huff.
    (My mom and sisters were in sororities and would freak at that comment.)

    This univ. has a reputation as a party school and easy child wants to be an artist. She loves kids and wants to dbl major in education. I am so proud of her.

    So far, so good. I CAN be done.
  11. Rotsne

    Rotsne Banned

    Maybe it is because we are at war and suicide bombers are a real risk. They don't drink. We are in a constant state of alert and it has been so since we joined what Europeans call the 11th crusade in both Iraq and later Afghanistan. The only time we can relax are in a group of people drinking - not binge drinking alcohol. We have no 15/15, 16/16 or 21/21 rule or tradition where people have to consume a specific amount to fulfill a certain ritual.

    Right now they are sending a program in Danish television where reporters from all over the world visit our country and talk to ordinary people trying to understand us. It is called "The truth about the Danes". A reporter from ABC - Stephanie Stanton visited three girls aged about 15 when they were warming up to a night in town drinking a few beers. Then she was out in the kitchen talking to the parents. She was shocked! Another reporter tried to talk all days to people on the street and was ignored. When he went into a bar the ice was broken.

    What I have learned from participating on this board is that there maybe is too big a difference between a small culture trying to avoid being extinct and your country. We have seen several cases of xenophobia against Danes from a lot of countries around the world especially since our victory in the cartoon war. So youth are generally being advised from studying abroad. It seems like such cases of xenophobia is characteristic for this time. I also dislike how the Italian have framed this poor American girl. The Italian court system cannot afford to loose, so she is a goner regardless of the fact that it would be unjust. All this because they want to revenge that your troops shot one of their spys by mistake in Iraq.

    I have difficulties to see how I can avoid causing disturbance when our values are so far from each other. We have a totally other family structure and just the thought of sending one of our kids away from home even if a Residential Treatment Center (RTC) was just down the corner would be out of the question. Even if they are drunk (been there - my daughter threw up in her room Saturday. She had to clean her room Sunday), they attack us at knifepoint (nephew-amphetamine - broken his hand), surf porn (printed the website history out and hang it on his door) or they steal from us (son-I stole the sim card from his phone until he paid me back).

    So I have decided to stay off for a while.
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2009
  12. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    Wow. I'm just speechless of the cases of "xenophobia". I think that is a huge reach. The stories aren't clear - can't even determine what country or airline is involved in the one. Only one side of the story, too, of course.

    Primitive and unjust justice system? Ours? It isn't perfect, but it is certainly not primitive and unjust.

    I'm at a loss for words, but this is immensely insulting. So Danes should be exempt from another country's laws because they are Danes? And when an American goes to Denmark and unknowingly breaks the law, is he exempt, too?
  13. Rotsne

    Rotsne Banned

    If it can be to any comfort, I believe in the innocence of Amanda Knox.

    But I dont believe that the court system in Italy are able to give her a fair trial.

    • Remember she was in jail for a year without being charged.
    • A book like O.J's is written about the case (not by her).
    • Witnesses appeared out of nowhere almost a year after when they were lacking evidence against her.
    • She was interviewed for more than 10 hours without a lawyer present in a foreign language.
    • She was forced to testify that a certain bar owner who had powerful political connections to some of Italy export markets was not a part of the case if she wanted to avoid "accidents" in jail.

    Most recognize this case as revenge for two incidents - one in Iraq and one when US troops tried to arrest terrorist who had killed an american citizen in a wheelchair on a cruise ship.

    Foreign justice systems are very often political and the one in Italy is an example of that.
  14. Suz

    Suz (the future) MRS. GERE

    Rotsne, I'll remind you that two subjects are not allowed on this site: religion and politics.


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