Aspergers vs Borderline (BPD)?

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by RR2323, May 4, 2015.

  1. RR2323

    RR2323 New Member

    My daughter was diagnosed with Aspergers at age 6. She is now 10 and things continue to get worse in many ways. We are trying to figure out if something more is going on. She refuses to do any work. One minute she is fine and the next she is mean and nasty, she thinks we are terrible and hates us. Everything has to be her way or she lashes out. I came upon information on "borderline personality disorder" and I thought wow, that sort of sounds like her! The Asperger's sounds like her too though and I am having trouble figuring out the difference when the behaviors seem the same, but the cause of the behaviors is different. Does anyone have any experience with Borderline (BPD)?
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Borderline (BPD) is not supposed to even be a diagnostic consideration until a child is an adult (18).

    Can you give us some background that could help us help you?
  3. RR2323

    RR2323 New Member

    Thank you for the reply. My daughter has always been very inflexible. This inflexibility leads to problems because things cannot go perfectly her way all the time. She seems to be in an endless anxiety/inflexibility cycle.....anxiety makes her need to feel in control which makes her inflexible which causes more anxiety. She has a hard time making and keeping friends. One reason is because she is not always so fun to be around when she is controlling you. When she does make a friend she ends up getting annoyed at them over something small and then doesn't want to be their friend anymore! She is very quick to write people off. She does this with her family as well... she will be happy doing something with us but the minute something doesn't get her way she tells us she hates us and wishes we were dead.

    She is extremely bright but lately she refuses to do any work. She is stuck in a funk where she only wants to do what she wants to do and that is that. She doesn't get what she wants when she refuses (we are very good about following through) but then she is more miserable to live with.

    She doesn't take others feelings into consideration, she is impulsive, she reacts very quickly (fight or flight). She perseverates on things (if she decides she hates someone or something then she will be obsessed with hating that person/thing). She has a poor self-image, she thinks she is stupid, she thinks everyone hates her.

    We are on a constant emotional roller coaster with her and I often wonder if we are dealing with more than Asperger's and Anxiety.
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Sounds like Asperger's to me. I have a son on the spectrum. And anxiety/perfectionism/wanting things to be the same goes along with it. That is all part of the disorder. In time, with intervetnions, my son learned to tolerate things a lot more and I'd actually call him a mellow guy now at twenty-one. But he used to have a fit if we turned down a different street due to a detour when driving him to school. He would literally have a panic attack if anything changed.

    Kids on the spectrum tend to improve with age. It does help to get appropriate interventions. Aspies tend to be major time loners. My son has one close friend, who he plays videogames with and watches movies with. He can interact with others, but doesn't like to be with people that much and probably never will. H e gets bored with lpeople very quickly unless they want to play videogames or watch movies or if he is playing sports with them. He doesn't really have give-and-take conversations. It's not selfishness. It's part of his disorder, which is partly a communication disorder. Also, aspies do not understand how to read people and are very clueless about social cues and often appear to have no empathy. It's not that. They don't understand people. They sometimes outgrow this deficit a bit. My son is much better now. Some do not. Social sk ilills classes are helpful. Understanding why she has some issues that other people don't may help her. It helped my son. He has a good self-image and likes himself and, if asked, will say, "Naw, I like me" if asked if he's sad he has autism. People DO tend to like him. He's a nice young man who is very polite, but don't ask him to hang out at the mall.

    After a half day of work, he is ready for down time on his own. These kids are just wired differently. They are not mentally ill.They do not have personality disorders. There is nothing psychological about Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). It's different wiring in the brain. My son is one of the happiest people I ever met. Honestly, I wish I could be so calm and take each day as one at a time. and, no, he wasn't calm like that when he was little, but that is who he became. Does your daughter have any interventions from school that are not behavioral?
    Last edited: May 4, 2015
  5. RR2323

    RR2323 New Member

    Thanks for the reply. My daughter does not like to be alone, she likes to be around others. She is very social but she is often off-putting because she will want to talk about whatever she feels like talking about, she has to be right, she wants to control everyone etc. Her emotional regulation is getting worse :( She seems "typical" when she is fine and things are going well but the minute things don't go her way she acts like a brat. That is what people see, a selfish brat that has to have her way. I realize she has Asperger's but it doesn't change how kids at school see her, so it is hard to have friends. She is very aware so her self-esteem continues to crumble. 4th grade girls are complex and starting to mature while she is not.

    The refusal behaviors are very difficult to deal with. What do you do with a child who refuses to do any work? She was not like this before. She had a very traumatic situation at school and she ended up unraveling.

    Things are getting worse and worse. I know others with children with Asperger's and they are nothing like this.
  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    What you explained is also Aspie=ish. What kind of help is this child getting to help her learn how to interact appropriately with other people? Aspies need help. They don't pick things up by observation.

    They tend to have specific interests, very narrow, and talk about them nonstop. They may like to be around people, but don't know to have a two way conversation. They tend to monologue or get bored. I am not going to try to push it beyond this post, but I think you are seeing a behavior problem where a neurological problem exists. Please don't ever call her a brat or assume she is trying to be "bad." My own mother did this...I never forgot it and it went on forever and just got worst. The best thing in my opinion that you can do for both of you is to get her a neuropsychological evaluation rather than guessing or maybe listening to teachers (who do not diagnose disorders) or relatives or neighbors or even a pediatrician (this is not a pediatrician's field). A neuropsychologist is a psychologist with special extra training in the brain and they test extensively in all areas. They are NOT the same as neurologists. You can find them at teaching hospitals and children's hospitals.

    She is not a brat. Something is going on that causes her not to understand how to act appropriately with other people. There is no one way an Aspie behaves. At any rate, if you don't get her a neuropsychologist test, you are not helping her; you are condemning her without having her completely evaluated to see what is really going on. You sound very hostile toward just a little girl, no offense, but she IS just a little girl. You are the adult. It is your responsibility as her parent to take her for the best evaluation then help/interventions based on that evaluation. That is all of our help our children, not to think they are brats, a word that she WILL remember if you ever use it in front of her.

    Let the professionals handle it and maybe get therapy for yourself too so you can deal better with your daughter while she is being diagnosed and helped. If you don't like a neuropsychologist (I feel they are the best diagnosticians the U.S. offers), then at least see a psychiatrist (the one with the MD). Do not keep on blaming your daughter for behaviors that are probably not her fault. The longer she gets no help, yes, the worst it will get. If there is a father, involved him too. If you are alone with her, I know it is stressful and hard, but she is only a fourth grader. Try to make things better for her and don't call her names. That will not end well. Do not compare her to or expect her to be like neurotypial fourth grade girls. This is setting her up for failure. She can not be like them. She is herself and she is fine the way she is and she can even get better, but she is not going to be just like her peers are.She needs your support, not your anger and wishful thinking that she be like the other kids. Stop talking to other mothers. Talk to those only who "get it." Read. Learn all you can to help your daughter and yourself.

    A ten year old can't have borderline personality disorder. Stop reading the internet. Go to the REAL professionals. Find out what is REALLY wrong. Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) makes it hard to be flexible and many have fluctuating emotions. They are not the same as borderline.

    Hugs and good luck.
    Last edited: May 4, 2015
  7. RR2323

    RR2323 New Member

    Yikes! I said she "acts like a brat" and "that is what people see" and "that's how kids see her at school".......I was trying to explain why it is hard for her to have friends. I was not calling her a brat and I do not call her a brat. I think you misunderstood. I am not blaming her, I am trying to figure out what else is going on with her. Nonetheless, yes we have all sorts of professionals with eyes on her. She was diagnosed with Asperger's at one of the top children's hospitals in the country and we continue to follow up yearly. She sees a clinical psychologist weekly. She had psychological testing done through the school and it was quite good. We have considered a private neuropsychologist evaluation yes, so that is in the works.

    Our home is stable, we are educated, involved caring parents. She has been to social skills groups and camps etc. She does fine in the group but cannot generalize the skills into the real world situations. We have done lots of reading and educating ourselves about Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) and anxiety. In addition I read "The Explosive Child" and "Lost At School" which I highly recommend.

    Things are really getting worse :( I told my daughter we were turning off the TV at 6 to eat dinner. I was getting things ready and it was about 6:10. I said OK, time to eat. She grabbed her empty plate off the table and brought it in the family room, insisting that she must watch the TV show and eat in the family room. I turned off the TV, and she threw the glass plate onto the wood floor chattering it! Zero emotional regulation! She would have never done this a few months ago.....she is just falling apart.
  8. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Age 10 is a bit young for puberty... my Aspie-ish kid definitely changed majorly when THAT hit.

    I agree that the Aspie diagnosis is probably accurate. Most things you describe,"fit". Except for the comment quoted above.

    Asperger's Syndrome (and anything on the Autism Spectrum) can be a stand-alone diagnosis. But there are other conditions that can sometimes be seen in Aspies - co-morbid conditions. I don't know the whole list, but one example is bi-polar. And if there is a co-morbid condition, the situation gets complicated really fast.

    No advice on how to find out. We had to wait until we could see adult services to find any of this out. (and yes, all of us in the family went insane in the mean time)