At the end of my rope and just lost...

[Lil]

This is an awesome list! and totally reasonable.
Why are you backing down from it?

Sorry,been away a while, trying to nail things down.

The rules have been followed for the most part. His room is OK, he does his dishes, he doesn't smoke in the house, there have been few "incidents" where he got loud and shouted and he left the house until he calmed down and came back and apologised.

Where it is falling apart is the job.

He confessed to me this weekend he really hasn't looked. He gave me the "I'm going to change my life" speech, then asked for money for his last night out. It was obvious he was going to buy weed. Life was unpleasant when he was told no. He seems to think because we don't agree with him, we must not understand his position. That's not true. I understand perfectly - I just disagree. (Truthfully...and I know this may be a touchy remark, I'm generally pro-legalization. But it's NOT legal in my state and I won't contribute to something illegal. He's 19 - I'd not give him money for beer either! I can't control what he does outside of my house...but I won't support it. If he was working and spending his own money, outside of my home, I wouldn't like it...but much the way I wouldn't like him drinking.)

Anyway, other than taking a walk to cool off (at our directive) he didn't go out. But the job hunting is still an issue. Monday he said he "put in a few applications." Tuesday he hung out with a friend and said he had put in a couple applications. (Don't believe that.) Wednesday he said he put in a few applications. Today he said he went to the employment office...but he's already home at 11 a.m.

I spoke with him. Honestly, he sounded a little messed up...but he mumbles - always - and has one of those voices. It's hard to tell. He, of course, always denies it, which is odd since he admits to smoking when he's sober. I told him he needs to go back out and put in some more places. Will he? I don't know.

I don't understand the reluctance to get a job. I don't know what to do on the 16th, when his 30 days are up. He has very, very, very, few friends, acquaintances really, and none will let him stay. We are his only family within 100 miles. To be honest, I'm afraid that one of his stoner friends will get him selling or something if he's literally homeless and hungry and he'll end up in jail.

I guess what's really bad,is I've actually liked him more than I have in a year. He watches TV with us, eats with us, chats with us. But the deadline is near! I don't know if he's really looking. Certainly not to the extent we want him to. We do live in a small city...jobs are not that easy to find. But maybe he's sitting on his butt all day, getting high and then sobering up before we get home. I haven't smelled it on him or in the house, but that doesn't really mean anything when he admits he's done it (not in the house) since he's been home. It certainly isn't the frequency of last year, but it's happened.

I feel like I'm tied to the tracks and the train is coming....

 

[Lil]

Well...okay...update.

Spoke with him again. He was out again putting in at a couple places I know. A friend (no longer a friend I guess - they've had a falling out over $ he feels difficult child owes him) called and asked him to bring him his things that had been left at our house (he has no car). Of course, the guy lives 15 miles away in the next town, so difficult child didn't have gas. Probably shouldn't have, but transferred $ to his account, with the stipulation he NOT get cash...so I can tell it was all spent at the gas station. I just want this "friend" out of the picture.

I'm even less certain my son was messed up earlier. He sounded perfectly straight and said he feels pretty good about the career center.

I'm thinking of suggesting to my husband, if he continues to seem to be looking for work, maybe giving him one more week and telling him if he hasn't found a job there will be no more gas money either. He can job hunt on foot. We've already stopped "pocket money".

It's just I hate to kick him out because of work. Sometimes it does take time and is it right to kick him out when he's finally started looking? There's something to, "too little-too late" I suppose.

 

[Childofmine]

Lil I want to gently and kindly and strongly suggest that you stick to what you said.

If you don't you are teaching him that you don't mean what you say.

There are plenty of jobs and he could get one today if he chose to.

He is not choosing to.

You do him no favors when you give him a safety net. You are doing it to make yourself feel better.

Hang in there. It is way past time for him to grow up.


Sent using ConductDisorders mobile app

 

[Echolette]

A friend (no longer a friend I guess - they've had a falling out over $ he feels difficult child owes him) called and asked him to bring him his things that had been left at our house (he has no car). Of course, the guy lives 15 miles away in the next town, so difficult child didn't have gas. Probably shouldn't have, but transferred $ to his account, with the stipulation he NOT get cash...so I can tell it was all spent at the gas station. I just want this "friend" out of the picture.

There is something very wrong with this picture.

And uncomfortably familiar..the yucky friends, the money owed, the unpleasant phone calls. If that dude needs his stuff he should come and get it. You shouldn't be involved in this at all, shouldn't even know about it.

I think you need to toe the line with difficult child. His asking you for money after his "I'll change my life" story to me means he still doesn't get it.

I know that is much much easier typed than done.

Hugs and good luck,

Echo

(and ps good for you for not giving him party money! I don't care WHAT it was going for..he doesn't work, he doesn't have cash. Res Ipso Loquitor.)

 

[Lil]

Res ipsa loquitur - the thing speaks for itself. Yep...that fits. Amused me to see a legal term tossed out. Maybe I should use the talking to him. It would drive him crazy. My favorite is - reductio ad absurdum -the argument leads to an absurd conclusion. That is most of his arguments.

There is something very wrong with this picture.
And uncomfortably familiar..the yucky friends, the money owed, the unpleasant phone calls. If that dude needs his stuff he should come and get it. You shouldn't be involved in this at all, shouldn't even know about it.

This boy has been his friend for many years, even lived with us for a time when they were 16-17. I actually feel bad for this kid, no decent family, mom moved to Florida to live with her on-line boyfriend and left him when he was 16 - we took him in for a semester then took him to his dad. Only time we ever met his mom was the day she gave us a power of attorney. So we had hoped we could make a difference in his life. It's a pity, he's a talented kid (music) but no diploma, no good role models. We tried, but two teens were too much, especially when we knew/suspected he was part of the problem. Sadly, I think he's trouble. I know the pot thing started at the house he was living in back when they were 16. (He and his mom were staying wit family friends...she didn't work, etc.) The reason he feels my son owes him money is he had saved up from a temp job he worked and was going to move to the college town with son, went down, spent a ton on the two of them (hotels/food/etc.) and then it all fell through.

I WANT to know about this kind of stuff. Why should I not?

 

[dstc_99]

Wow that sounds way to familiar minus the pot. LOL Thank God mine hasn't gotten into that.

I agree with COM and ECHO I would toe the line (hopefully your husband will be better than mine and support you on it). Plus no spending money.

If you feel you have to make a compromise and give him that week make sure there are demands that go along with it. Such as applying for 5 jobs a day in person. Make him bring the applications home, fill them out, let you review them, then return them and get an employee to sign off that he did.

 

[Lil]

If you feel you have to make a compromise and give him that week make sure there are demands that go along with it. Such as applying for 5 jobs a day in person. Make him bring the applications home, fill them out, let you review them, then return them and get an employee to sign off that he did.

I like this. My husband will definitely support me if I put him out...he's been ready for a long time. It's mommy thats against it. I know this. I just can't get my mind around kicking him out over a job. My parents would never have done that to me...but I was not a problem either. After all he's done, his laziness is the least.

 

[recoveringenabler]

I agree that you need to stick to your original plan. You may want to get the address of the local shelters and the food banks to hand it to him on his exit day. You may want to let him know, clearly, that if there isn't a job, he will be out on the given date. They rarely believe us if we've enabled them and when that day comes, if you stick to your guns, you may experience his wrath in ways you haven't before. Our difficult child's don't like it when we change the playing field in our favor.

You may also remind him that there are often waiting lists at shelters, so he may not just walk in and get a bed, he would have to wait and then he really would be homeless. If the local shelter doesn't have a bed, you might rent him a room on one of those long term cheap motels, some parents here have done that, just a transitional thing, and it lets our difficult child's know that we are serious, he is no longer living at YOUR house. And, once the week is up, he can move to the shelter if they have a bed. There ARE other options for him other then your home or the streets. And, you DON'T have to rent him a motel room either, it's simply a suggestion I've heard parents make when they are the ones who can't fathom their kids being homeless but they want them out of the home. I would only pay for it for a very short time, he should be working. In real life if you aren't working then you don't have any money for anything. Anything. Remember that, the first thing to stop is the money. No more money, not for anything. He can walk, he can ride a bike, he can hitch hike to job interviews. The more he has to do for himself, the more empowered he will eventually be to have done it on his own.

My guess is he doesn't believe you will put him out, which is exactly why you need to, to shift his thinking and make him understand that you are no longer his meal ticket, he is on his own. As an only child, it is likely that you have indulged him. I have only one child too and I clearly indulged her. She is 41 and just learning to be independent and appreciative.

As with all of us, you will need a lot of support to stay the course, so make support a priority, because you will have too much trouble, too much guilt and sorrow and fear to let go of your son and allow him to deal with the consequences of his choices, you will need help to change and detach. If you don't change how you respond to your son, then this dynamic will continue and you will be still asking him to get a job when he is 30 years old. You are the only one who is going to change, because he isn't going to without a big push from you. Remember you are the one with all the power,not him.

 

[Lil]

I agree that you need to stick to your original plan. You may want to get the address of the local shelters and the food banks to hand it to him on his exit day. You may want to let him know, clearly, that if there isn't a job, he will be out on the given date.

I just keep thinking that if he has finally started looking for a job, shouldn't he have the time to find one? This isn't a big city. This isn't a good economy. There are a lot of people out of work. Even looking hard, it might take a bit. I know he wasn't looking as soon as he should, but if he is looking now? More, I keep thinking, not that many 19 year olds live on their own. If they aren't in school, they live with their families. The only shelter in this town has limited beds and give priority to families or people with kids.

The hotel isn't an option. If I were going to do that I'd have never let him come home in the first place. I'm not sure there even is one in this town. Either way, my husband would never go for it.

I know you all think I should. A part of me thinks I should. But I don't think I can do it. Not yet.

 

[recoveringenabler]

Lil, all we can do is share with you what has worked for most of us. Many of us have been in the exact same position as you have, and we are simply sharing what we did and what worked. You are the only one who knows your son and can see him and hear him and make the choices necessary. If you are not ready to let go and let him deal with the consequences of his own behavior, then that is what you need to do. You don't need to justify your choices to us, we are not judging you, we are giving you our support and our advice based on what has worked for us. If you choose another way, we support that as well.

We only respond to the story you tell us and we try to glean out of that what would be supportive of YOU and what we can offer YOU. We understand that it takes quite awhile for all of us to get to a point where we are ready to detach from our kids and let them do whatever it is they need to do to work it out for themselves. If you are not at that point quite yet, or if you are never at that point, that is your choice, we respect that.

This is a treacherous and very difficult path. Having troubled kids who are on drugs, who are mentally challenged, who have conduct disorders or who are simply lazy and manipulative, is a nightmare for us, the parents. There is no right way or wrong way, just the way we choose to go at any given time. It is certainly a process and it's a hard one for every single one of us. We aren't experts, we're just parents doing the best we can under extraordinarily challenging circumstances with the people we love the most.

I'm sorry you are suffering, there is a lot of suffering here. I hope your son finds a job and complies with your list, that would be the best case scenario. Who knows, it could happen. If it does, let us know, we love to hear positive outcomes! In the meantime, keep posting, it helps to write it down and get feedback and support. We all really understand how you are feeling Lil. We get it.

 

[Lil]

Thank you...I swear I spend half my time feeling like I'm going to cry and half like I'm having a panic attack...punctuated with small moments of relief. He knows...he knows how disappointed I am in him. That hurts too. I just don't want this. I don't want to be disappointed in my son.

 

[Lil]

After a talk with my husband we sat our son down last night. We told him his month was up on the 16th, but in light of the holiday, we would give him to the end of next week to find a job. We also said, "You know we were planning to kick you out, but we won't - yet. We will give you a little more time to find work. However as of next Friday you lose the car. If you don't have a job, you can walk or ride a bike to look for work. There will be no money either. Not a penny."

We figured that we better get it over with for 3 reasons: 1) to give him as much notice as possible - so he got the extra days to look for work if he's so inclined, 2) because he's not good with being hit with bad news suddenly - he has problems "shifting gears", always has had, and 3) because if he came to us on day 29 and said, "Please don't make me move." and we then said we'd discussed it - well in his mind I think it would be his win, like he asked and we caved. This way it's our decision, there's no discussion with him, we discussed it between ourselves and made our choice and that's what he gets.

He took it surprisingly well. He said he has a friend who's working in his dad's lawncare business who's making decent money and plans on getting his own place and that when he gets a job they'll move in together - because he knows we want him to move out. (Picture me rolling my eyes.)

We explained that, while we very much enjoyed our empty nest, we don't "want him to move out" and if we did we'd have never brought him home from college in the first place. That we want him to grow up, quit acting like he's 16; it's the natural order of things for kids to grow up and get out on their own, doing so means he's moving ahead with his life and if we have to throw him out to make that happen, so be it. If he had a job, earning his own way, paying his own bills, AND respected us and our home, we wouldn't have a problem with him staying as long as he wanted. But that's not how it's been.

There was no complaining, no fighting. While that may come next Friday night, for now I'm giving this a win.

 

[Lil]

Oh...and I just find this kind of ironic - My husband's current JOB is teaching prison inmates how to find work! You'd think that would give us an edge, wouldn't you?

I also reaffirmed my offer to buy him new clothes for job hunting. He keeps blowing that off. His choice.

My kid just called me to tell me he was headed to the Career Center and put in some more applications. We shall see.

 

[Childofmine]

I think this IS a win. You have spelled it out. Now let's see what he does, Lil.

Warm hugs for you. I know your heart is hurting. One day at a time.

 

[Lil]

Thanks Childofmine. He called this afternoon...having had a good start but getting frustrated when he had trouble filling out aps on their computers. He was frustrated and upset, but said he was going to Kmart and maybe some other places.

He started in about not having money. He sold his computer to a friend, agreeing to take payments, and the kid has paid very little. (I warned him - oh well.) It was the usual, "I'm not asking but it sucks to not have money to hang out with friends...J doesn't answer me when I call...I just wanted him to toss me another 20 so I could go do something." I suggested maybe his friend would answer more often if he didn't bug him for money all the time and just text him asking if he wanted to hang out.

Whatever.

He's getting no money. Here's hoping for a half-way calm weekend. Not holding my breath.

 

[DammitJanet]

I understand living in a very small town with practically nothing in the employment arena. Heck my oldest son who has worked for the same place for the last 8 years and is now a manager for a national retail chain but is actively looking for another job cant find one. A kid with problems has even less of a chance.

The only real hope we have found is construction. If your son isnt completely physically unable to move then he can get a job in construction doing something. Im sure you probably told him at some point in time that if he didnt do X he would end up digging a ditch all his life? Well now is the time to dig that ditch. Might not be literally a ditch he has to dig but he can start out as a helper or laborer and work his way up. He will earn more than minimum wage at least. Heck if your son isnt afraid of heights tell him to look on line for companies that do cell phone tower work. Good money in that and they train. One good place to look for construction work is craigslist. Normally people meet up at some central location and ride in a van to the job sites. My SO has worked in construction since he was 18 and supported our family that way.

 

[recoveringenabler]

Hang in there Lil, it's the beginning of change that's the most difficult. You mapped it out well, it's all on his plate now, hold on to your guns!

 

[Lil]

Thanks ladies. He's terrified of heights - which we found out at the top of the Sears Tower when he was 11. He's got zero skills in construction and is sooooo scrawny. I can't really imagine any heavy lifting, but there are a couple factories hiring. I'll take part-time! Anything for now.

 

[BusynMember]

Lil...I have read all the posts and I totally think your son is playing you. First of all, there are jobs. I live in a VERY small town and all my daughter's high school friends have jobs. High school kids. The economy reeks, but McD's and such still hire at least part-time. I doubt your son has put in even one application. You can make him prove it to you easily. Ask him to show you his online job applications. Every job is now an onlnie application, even fast food, so he can certainly show you.

My guess is he does have some money, thus making it unnecessary for him to get a job. I know...I KNOW how hard it is to accept what our kids are capable of...but my guess is besides mooching off of you as much as he can, he is selling stuff for drug money. I doubt it is only pot, but if he's never been drug tested you won't know. You may never know. He is not acting like a typical nineteen year old kid. Most of them want to get out from under mommy's thumb and grow up to become independent. And we have to encourage it. The ones who seem to like getting our money and being mommied at that age most likely have serious issues. There are eighteen year old young men fighting in the military and your son can't get a job. I know you want to believe him, but I can't buy it. Call me cynical. My difficult child is 36 and has been at his games longer than yours and I wish I'd put my foot down sooner. Now he is middle aged and still needs his mommy (me) for every little decision, but at least he works and supports himself. He'd better. My ex and myself refuse to support him or let him live with us so he sort of had no choice but to work and he did work his way up to a high paying job. That doesn't mean he won't take more money from us or that he is not doing illegal things, because he could be, but at least we are not a party to any of it.

Your son doesn't have a job because he has money from somewhere, you being one of his sources, and he doesn't need a real job. If this were my kid, he'd be gone. He's had tons of chances to either go to school to better himself or to find any piddly job to work at. He isn't following through. He is doing the minimum he can so that he can sleep in comfort and eat your food and get your "I feel sorry for you" money. Never pity an adult difficult child. If you give them an inch they will take a mile. If you give them a mile they will take the whole country.


Red flags that say DRUGS go off in my head when there are fights between friends or enemies or kissing cousins about "he owes me money." That sounds very drug like. It must be significant money for the kid to get that hot over it.

With all respect to you in the world, because I lived in Denial Land once too, I think your son is involved in more stuff than you think. I also am pretty sure he doesn't want a conventional job nor a conventional life right now. If you push him out now, he may get the motivation to change because his life will not be pleasant. But if you hang on for too long, he may never change. He may never change anyway, which is a big bummer for him because you can't live and support him forever and he is not learning how to take care of himself at all.

Just a suggestion: If this were my kid, over my dead body would I ever hand out Part Night money. You know what he means by party night. Booze, maybe drugs, bad stuff...why give him money for that? Because he may pout or yell? I've been a softie at times, but that has never happened. And my opinion is that it is better for him and for you if you don't do that either. Not even once. It is saying you agree with that behavior.

Also I wouldn't pay for job hunting clothes until/unless he gets an interview. Again, job applications are all online now. Nobody will see him unless he gets a phone call from an employer and do you really think he is trying? You can't get a job application at K-Mart or Walmart anymore. I've been job hunting myself and I know. It is 100% online. You can not see a manager or fill out an application at a store. Going to K-mart will not get him a job and he knows that. And you need to know that too.

Hugs for your hurting mommy heart.

 

[Lil]

MWM, I appreciate your input, but with all respect, you are wrong about 100% of jobs being online applications. I know this for a fact because I've picked up paper applications from several places that don't have online apps - (two grocery stores and a mom&pop fast food place) I picked up one at the grocery store today. (Yeah, I shouldn't bother, but I was there and the applications were laying there in plain sight by the register so wth.) Sure, the big places like Wal-mart, etc. are all on-line...but not everywhere. Granted, he hasn't been looking much and I agree - he doesn't want to work, but he has no choice. He was online today trying to put in at Kmart, which should be hiring soon. I say trying, because after the application they had three "assessments" you had to go through and the darn website had a "critical error" at the start of the 2nd one and it made him shut down the browser. I know, because I was sitting right next to him. (Yeah, that was unpleasant...he doesn't react well to things like that and really, I'd have been a bit ticked off myself...he'd been at it almost an hour at that point.) He also definitely went to the local career center, because I gave him 1/2 and hour after he said he was going and did a GPS on his cell phone. Low and behold - there he was. He has a friend here (one of the few I actually approve of) who is going with him on Monday to a job fair at a local book publishing plant. I know they will go, because his friend has a job now, lives on his own (in a house-sharing situation) and is looking for a different place of his own, but he is working fast food and really wants a better job and his mom has worked at that plant for years. He's a fairly responsible kid and I hope mine starts hanging out with him more.

I think you skipped over the part of my posts where I said the money is done. He didn't get it last week and he won't be getting any more. He gets the car one more week, and gas, but that's it. After that he will be walking.

He does have some money, when he gets it. He sold his computer to his friend (the same one going to the job fair) and he pays him a bit every two weeks when he gets paid. So far it hasn't been much. I told him not to, and to wait for a lump sum, but he didn't. I just hope that it doesn't effect their friendship in the end. He used to be friends with this kid before he started hanging out with all the stoners and it would be good for him to have a hard-working friend again.

Of course there's drugs, I'm not an idiot. But, I do think that, at this point, it's only pot or (worse in my opinion) the "potpourri" junk. But he's been very honest about that. Last summer he was smoking several times a week, we could tell. During "school" (and I use the term lightly) he told us today that he was smoking every other day on average. But he also says he's only done it once since coming home. I suspect more...but it's certainly not like last year. I see a definite difference.

So yeah, the job thing is a problem. He doesn't seem to be able to get his head around that fact that job hunting needs to be a full time job in itself and putting in a couple of places every once in a while isn't enough. And he needs to quit getting so bent out of shape when things go wrong. Job hunting is boring, tedious and disappointing, none of which he handles well.