AWESOME talk with my Mom!!!!!

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by susiestar, Jun 12, 2010.

  1. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I talked with Mom today. I intended to talk with her yesterday, that giving her time to catch up on stuff after her trip to Europe, but it was an eventful day. They had a friend come up and stay way longer than expected so calling last night would have been a problem.

    Mom will be happy to keep her relationship with gfgbro separate from us. Esp once I mentioned that Jess's therapist is behind this. She does wish that she could do what she did when we were kids. If there were problems she had us all sit around the sandbox and take turns talking and listening. She wishes we could do that, but is fine with this arrangement.

    She does NOT cry all the time about us. She does NOT spend hours cleaning up after us. Sometimes the kids leave messes but she prefers that to having us go through and hide all of her stuff. She is rather frustrated because things seem to be missing and she has no idea where to look since he did so much cleaning.

    As it stands, we are welcome anytime. We have always called before we come over unless it has been prearranged. The first year we were married we slid out of that, but gfgbro pointed out it was rude. He was right. So we always call first. We also call if we are going to run errands to see if we can help in any way. Usually they are fine.

    Right before I intended to call my mother my gfgbro called again. I told him he is not allowed to abuse us any more. That I have made many efforts to address things he said were problems, but I am never able to be enough. Most of the things he brought up, even today, are things that happened six or more years ago. Even things my kids did 6 years ago were brought up.

    Did you know that it is IMPOSSIBLE to abuse someone who is your size? I didn't. I was also unaware that he had to "spank" his daughter to keep her alive when he took her to work with him. He HAD to take her to work ALL THE TIME because our parents are sick and her mother was in the hospital. Um, her mom hasn't been in the hospital for 4 years, our parents almost NEVER tell him no to babysitting because he threatens that they won't see her again, and he only has custody of her half the time. If he hadn't spent LOTS of time teaching her it was "cute" to do what other adults, including my parents, say, then maybe spanking would be unneeded? If you tell his daughter to pick up, she dumps stuff, to use an inside voice, she shrieks. He laughs and jokes if even her TEACHER complains about it!!!!!! I only know because the teacher asked me about it because she has had thank you's old teachers.

    I let him have his last say. I am done. I have told him we will not answer further calls from him. There is no point.

    I am glad to have drawn the line. It is what it is. My father will still mention him and roll his eyes as he says what bro has said. Cause he does it after EACH thing my bro says. They don't really talk. husband and my dad discuss ideas, plans, ideas for novels, etc.... My dad and bro will start to discuss something, bro will raise his voice and start repeating himself after 4-6 sentences and my dad will leave the room. My dad took nine bathroom breaks the last time we spent 3 hours with my parents and gfgbro. It is his ONLY way to get away from bro when he wants to fight.

    I feel like a giant weight has been taken off my last nerve. It was really nice to have my mom not take sides. Mom's therapist has finally told her that she needs to stop listening to my brother when he rants, regardless of what he wants to rant about. That it just encourages awful behavior.

    Part of me really wanted to ask if lack of water for days could have cause their cat to die. i did not. I do know that for a week the cat was out all night and most of the day. husband was taking food over because it was NOT out when he went the one day that S was out. We also got reamed for leaving water on all night when the cat was out. It is something they will say they were not there for, and it is past. So I will not ever bring it up again.

    Deep down they know he ignores them if they make a point of anything. It is his nature. Now, I am FREEEEEEEEEE!!!!! Of having a gfgbro.

    Thank you ALL for helping me see that this truly is the best thing to do. For helping me understand deep down that it truly is abuse, regardless of what the family tells me.
  2. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    If this is referring to "things you did wrong" pertaining to your parents, then this is where the dyfunction and inappropriate boundaries begin, in my humble opinion. It is NOT his place to be the go-between for your parents and you. He is a sibling, not a third parent.

    And I don't mean to sound harsh, but the more time you spend thinking about this stuff and letting him get your BiPolar (BP) up, the more he's still in control of your moods and thoughts and how you are spending your time.
  3. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    You are right. He called today and was awful, right as I was dialing my mom. I won't be talking about him again. Cause that is it. I am now on to other topics!!! How are you doing today?
  4. trinityroyal

    trinityroyal Well-Known Member


    I am so glad that you were able to have the frank and clear talk with your mom that you needed to have AND that she understood and agrees to your needs. You must be so relieved.

    Sending many hugs.
  5. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Thanks for asking- although I preached to you a little, my mom called last night to ask about difficult child. I had only had 2 hours sleep the night before due to stress over everything and court so I'm not sure what all I said to her- I only remember letting her know as sublty as I could, without trying to instigate an arguement, that I didn't see how she couldn't see that it was her and my bro's fault that difficult child got so caught in the legal system so deeply and that my financial situation was in part due to having to fight all the koi they stirred up. She said she did see it. No apology, no offer to help, no remorse, so who knows- it sure appears like she just doesn't care. But that's the way she's always been- she only cares about what she wants and has NEVER seemed to feel a single drop of guilt no matter what the situation- even when she'd hurt my step-father's feelings or anything else. She's just that way. I don't know if it's due to narcisism (sp), if she's antisocial, or what. I gave up trying to figure it out. LOL! But what gets to me is when she then will turn around and claim to love difficult child so much that she'll just have to get others involved if I don't tell her what she wants to know or whatever because she has grandparent's rights. Pulleeeeaaaaassseee!!!!!!

    So, that's the story of my life since yesterday! LOL!!

    So I hope you understand, when I tell you things to try to help you get past this issue with your family, I'm sitting here reminding myself of the same things- which is why they come to mind to also tell you when I read your posts. Hang in there! You're on the right track I think.
  6. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Thanks. I do know that you are trying to help. It is hard to imagine that it took you all and a couple of therapists to make me see that what he does is abuse. I spent so many years with it just being the way my family is and with the family telling me that family is the all important unit and that ours is so much more wonderful than everyone else's and all that koi. Cause they really did. But ANY time I questioned "the family" or thought that MY family, meaning husband and the kids and I, should be my priority it rained fire and brimstone all over me. Because I moved to a city that my parents didn't live in I was actually TOLD I was depriving them of their grandkids. It happened 15 yrs ago. Just today my bro told me that my parents walk on pins and needles and won't say anything to disagree with my because they are "afraid" I will move the kids away from them. He has a grasp on reality. IF reality is exactly what you decide it is. My parents didn't like that we moved away but they NEVER said it was wrong or bad or done to keep them from anyone. I guess they will know that this is a fear of theirs as soon as he tells them.

    I am stirred up today because his call was really out of line. I did stop his first interruption and tell him I would listen if he would first listen to me. I spoke for 3 minutes. I then listened to him. At 25 minutes my phone died. He called to tell me I did it on purpose because I know he was saying the truth. He brought up stuff I did when I was NINE. No joke. The man who claims not to remember calling me after 11 at night (but used to call ONLY in the middle of the night and ramble for a minimum of an hour), who claims not to remember EVER hitting me, sexually abusing me, giving my daughter beer in her baby bottle, etc... says he KNOWS that I am doing many things. How can he KNOW all of that and not "remember" the things he does to me. He even claimed that my kids were only "mildly" sunburned the year he fried them to a crisp. The pediatrician my mom took them to has notes in the chart and pictures. If my mother had not BEGGED her not to call DHS she would have. That was the point that made me angrier than anything else. When I told him to ask mom what SHE remembers from that time he hung up on me. I was glad.

    My mom is really hurting. She thinks she has a bowel impaction. Jess had one a couple of years ago. My mom said she was sorry she didn't realize how bad it hurt. At the time Mom and Chris said that Jess was just being dramatic and I encouraged it. Bro had led mom to believe he had been through it several times and that Jess was just "whiny". Mom NOW says it ranks right up their with childbirth with-o medications. I don't know about that, I never tried that route!

    I was highly amused at the idea that Mom is afraid to tell me stuff. She SOOOOO isn't. Not by a LONG shot. When she went on ritalin bro asked me about it. I told him that MY concern was because I had been told it was harder on the liver than adderall. While the diagnosis confuses me, it has never been mine to question. Mom and I ended up in a GIANT argument about it because bro told her a bunch of outright lies. He came to me to get me to help with an "intervention" because he felt that after a week on the medications she was acting like a "junkie". I have his letter to me at the time. It is FULL of accusations against her and also said that if I disagreed I didn't love her. Which is the pattern. I refused and he told me I would be sorry. Three days later my mom called me and was FURIOUS because of what he attributed to me.

    My mother has not EVER been shy about telling me what she thinks about my life. Esp once I had kids. She will not tell my exsil anything negative because she is afraid that visits with my niece will be withheld. Both of my parents have told me that several times, together and separately. My mom has also told me she is afraid that if she says negative things to gfgbro that he will start drinking. My KIDS have heard him say that he hopes they are never upset with him because that would make him want to drink and he could lose X years of sobriety. Last time they mentioned it, it was 6 years of sobriety, so it was with-in the last two years. I have frequently listened to my mother be afraid to say something about a problem because he might hurt himself. At one point she confessed to not wanting to say things about his behavior because if he got angry he might hit her!

    I do think I know part of "why" he perceives that I am bitter and vindictive. After we have been at my parents for a couple of hours I am in a LOT of pain. I am often struggling not to cry or to vomit from the pain. I am sure that I do not look all thrilled with the world. I also do not laugh at every lame joke he tells. I smile, and always at least chuckle even when the joke is offensive to me just so that it doesn't cause a scene. Last time it was over the joke about why a wife had 2 black eyes.

    Wiz had problems believing and remembering positive things we said about him. It went on for years. We used to pretend to call other people to tell them what good thing he had done or said. I think gfgbro might also be unable to perceive and/or remember positive things that I do and that my family does. At no time has he remembered any positive thing we have done, going back to when I was in high school. It may be aspergers, other mental illness, or all the brain cells he fried as he abused various substances. Whatever the reason, it is over. This is something where I will not cause a scene in public or at my parents, but I won't "get over" or go to therapy with him for either. For some reason it does help to have some idea WHY he seems so determined to vilify me.

    husband, who has a sometimes twisted sense of humor, started calling him "Bean-Count-A-Claus" because he "knows" everything that we do/think/say/feel and if our parents are involved he MUST receive at least the same as they give us. He constantly tallies this stuff. I love the name!!! husband makes some wicked adaptations of songs. It helps him process stuff, according to his therapist.

    Thank you all.
  7. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I know you don't won't to feel alone in the extended family over all this, but seriously Susie- you need to accept the fact that NO family has only one very dysfunctional person in it. I know you want the comfort of having ans saving a good relationship with your parents thru this, and that be possible, but please start stepping back a little further and understanding that your bro did not get this way on his own. All this stuff you are describing is very typical of a dysfunctional family- especially the part about people getting upset (feeling threatened) if a member of the family starts detaching from the dysfucntion or questioning it or quits letting the "family ways" determine how they will raise thei own kids. Just ekkp stepping back and I would strongly suggest slowing down communication with all family members for a while.
  8. Star*

    Star* call 911

    Well if we had anything to do with supporting you to make the decision to cut ties with your difficult child, controlling, manipulative, dysfunctional, mentally ill, mean, aggressive, brother? Then I say 'You are welcome.'

    Therapy is a process and it's peeling back layer by layer of your past life - one hour at a time. You figure if you go one hour a week to a therapist, and you are 51 years old? (not that you are but hypothetically speaking) And you've had issues since you were a baby with your family? You can only cover one week of your life a year in an hour and that's if you rush - plus you have to think about dividing THAT time with present day problems - I mean it's staggering how complex we are.

    I believe if your Mom keeps going to her therapist and you keep going - and have made a choice to draw your boundaries and stick to them? Eventually your brother will either get tired of his own voice (as he has no one to take out his aggression on - and actually - that's why he does it with you - he KNEW you would NEVER, NEVER leave him because you love him.) Same as our difficult child kids OR he may get so tired of himself he'll seek out therapy. (doubtful at this point) but the fact that you've stopped all communication and speaking to him, and about him will be very helpful. - You've basically started to drain your swimming pool of toxic chemicals....and you know once the bad water is gone? You really wouldn't go down the drain to get it back in the pool. You put new fresh water in - and enjoy it!

    I wish you well - I'm glad you finally had a decent conversation with your Mom.

    I have to ask though - about the cat? Did anyone do a necropsy on it? I was thinking if you were in charge of feeding it, and it came up dead - would your brother think that he would look like the shining star in your parents eyes - Susie* messed up again - look....Mom.....she couldn't even feed a cat without killing it. Just thinking out loud because for me to read between those lines? Makes me think the cat died a premature death with assistance.
  9. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Star, my parents would not have a necropsy. In their eyes, if they even attempted to find blame then they would have to live with that info. No way can they. Nothing like poison needed to be fed to the cat. When my bro brought him home to my parents, the cat was gravely injured. He had been hit by a car or something, no one knows. His skin had healed over some of the injuries and maggots hatched inside it. This is not uncommon in cats who are on their own. His kidneys and other organs were severely damaged and it took over a year for him to be relatively healthy.

    Simply keeping the cat outside all day with no access to water was enough. Bro was told, over and over, that the cat HAD to be inside when bro left. Bro flat out told us that the cat had fleas and wasn't going to ruin the clean house he created. So the water was turned off in the faucet my parents said to leave running. The notes were removed, and the cat was shut out. Even mentioning he was mostly outside would, given the family dynamic, be taken as me holding a grudge against bro. I have heard it over and over with so many things. At this point, I fully believe my bro is responsible for the cat's stroke. He has told ME many times that cats are awful to have in the house because they are filthy and dogs are SO much cleaner.

    Bro didn't care when OUR cat died, and didn't even tell his daughter when the other cat died. She ADORED the other cat, but would make a fuss and he didn't want to "deal" with it, according to what he told me yesterday.

    Years ago he had another border collie. It was never in a pen or run or fenced area. He trained it to expect 4=6 hours of intense one on one time with him. Then he went on a few benders. He called me at 2 am on night because his dog died. It got hit with a car. I have always thought that it wasn't someone with a grudge against him. That he did it while he was drunk. This "beloved" animal was kicked, hit, left in the back of his truck for up to eighteen hours, etc... This is all stuff HE told me. He spent several months "hunting" the person who killed his dog. I know for a fact that at one point he threatened someone with a gun if they didn't "confess". He got picked up by the sheriff for it and I got a call in the middle of the night. NOW he says it never happened. He has "never" threatened anyone, stolen anything, had anyone point a gun on him other than during his felony spree and never called me after 9 pm at night. I have been "told" all this - and since I don't have 10yo phone records I cannot "prove" even the phone calls.

    It is my vindictiveness that leads me to make up this stuff.

    HOW could ANYONE make this up????