Big dip down on roller coaster ride..need support & judgment

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Nomad, Mar 30, 2010.

  1. Nomad

    Nomad Guest

    Don't even know what to call this...but it's bad....potentially very bad. I have two major questions (below).

    Naturally, I am looking for helpful and empathetic responses as I am hurting and conflicted.

    We are just coming off of a few really bad weeks with difficult child...she ended up in the hospital for a few not wish to elaborate.

    husband got a call yesterday from difficult child's landlord. He says that there are electrical problems in the home and he has to have difficult child leave. She has been complaining about the electricity going on and off for the past week.
    We think that this is more than a coincidence if you get my drift.
    Even difficult child doesn't totally buy it...noting today's date. He locked her out of the apartment...changing the locks. He said that she is free to call him to pick up her stuff and cats any time she wants.
    Last night, difficult child stayed at a friend's house. She has 0 money to move anywhere else , etc.

    I know others have had their difficult children go from house to house and the truth is because difficult child is on disability and husband is the D. Payee, it should only be a month or two, before she has enough money and hopefully can find another garage apt. to move into. And difficult child has pulled off miracles before (not sure she can this time though).

    Q #1: But this feels bad...really bad. Who has been through this and can you comment?

    Q #2: I called NAMI and they gave me the name of an attorney to inquire about Guardianship. Pros/Cons? What about having someone declared incompetent for the long term? Pros/cons? Has anyone done any of these things and what were the results?

    Thank you.
  2. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I tell you what, I would be very ticked off about a landlord locking her out without notice. That is illegal unless he has done the eviction notice steps. I dont care if she is month to month, you simply cant do that. Id file in small claims court if I were you. Doesnt help the problem now, but she will get some recourse later.

    I dont know what to tell you about guardianship. I do have a link though.

    Guardianship help

    I dont know how much that link can help you but I looked it up when someone else was asking about it.

    I know you have talked about her difficulties before. That may be good thing for you to consider. I dont know your living situation. Is it at all possible for you to construct a mother in law apartment at your place of residence? That might be a way of giving her some independence but also keeping hands on too. Just thinking out loud.
  3. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Oh, I am so sorry, Nomad.
    What a dilemma.
    I've never been through this so I can't pretend to have any advice, but I cannot imagine going month-to-month wondering what to do.
    It seems like a long-term solution is best, but I'm not sure what it is.
    It doesn't sound like having her in your home for more than a day or two would be the right thing to do. WAY too much stress.
    Sorry I don't have any advice ... just hugs.
  4. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not


    I have seen my share of dirty tricks from a landlord. In particular, I remember a landlord shutting off the hot water to a tenant's apartment and then pretending there must have been a problem with the water that might be the case here.

    IF the landlord did something with the electricity you may have a court case--if you can prove it.

    Was difficult child causing problems there that the landlord wanted her to leave?

    Or did the landlord discover that he was renting an illegal apartment--or an apartment that did not meet code in some way--and he was worried about getting in trouble and may have needed her to leave for that reason?

    If the landlord pays the utlities--is there a chance that the "electrical problem" was caused by his financial difficulties? If so, he may be looking for an excuse to get the tenants out before the house is foreclosed.

    Any chance there really was an electrical issue...?

    As to question #2-- I have no information.
  5. hearts and roses

    hearts and roses Mind Reader

    No experience, just sending support. I'm sorry for whatever difficult child is going through and hope everything works out, hugs~
  6. dashcat

    dashcat Member

    I've had no experience with this sort of thing, but I am posting to offer my support and many hugs. My gut feeling is that you're right about the landlord. I also think this cannot possibly be legal, but it might be hard to prove. You might want to contact the ACLU in your area. Best of luck to you.
  7. Nomad

    Nomad Guest

    It is highly likely difficult child did things that caused the landlord to be unhappy with her. Keep in mind, she got into a very loud fight with her boyfriend there a few days ago. I do think it is likely dirty tricks, but feel conflict given what I know in my heart about the whole business. Yes, hard to prove...too complicated and I'm tooooo tired. We actually think it is good that difficult child recognizes that she might have a little something to do with this...

    Spoke with an attorney for an hour on the subject of guardianship. It was somewhat helpful....hard to weigh the pros and cons.

    The latest (can change at any second) is difficult child is trying to work out a situation to stay at a friend's apt. in a fairly fair away city and pay weekly. He is a major difficult child. HIs parents have communicated with us.

    I'm tired to the having one of those days. I wont answer difficult children calls at the moment....etc.

    Do appreciate your kind words....thoughts...

    Am pushing myself to proceed and get going with my day....its sooo hard some days with this going on in the back of my mind....yuck!
  8. Hugs for you... (((((((((((((NOMAD))))))))))))) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I am aware of a very specific situation where a a contentious landlord hired a repairman for something that had recently been "signed off" by another repairman. The new repairman found a very dangerous situation then notified a utility company about the danger, and the utility company completely turned off the utility until repairs were completed and place was deemed safe.

    That may be the kind of situation with the rental unit and landlord.

    Your hunch could also be right about the landlord manipulating your daughter out.

    I'll P/M you.
  9. Star*

    Star* call 911


    This is the part of my life where I feel (present company excluded) I have to remain silent about my guilt for feeling guilty. I struggle so much with Dude being where he is and knowing in such a short period of time (1 month) he has made more bad decisions in 30 days than he has made in 16 years I could just scream. I do know that the decisions he has made are his alone. Doesn't make it any easier on me because I worry. That's the part I have problems with now. Not the NO you can't come here, NO you can't walk on me. However after 20 years of being his Mom? I don't know how everyone else just turns off their feelings and seems to not care or has that 'he gets what he deserves' attitude. I KNOW he does, I just don't want another person to say it. It's like a small corner of my being wants to scream "SHUT UP - I'm his Mother you know I'm right here listening - I still love him no matter, I never stopped being his Mom just because..."

    Not that I have a crystal ball, but like my parents before me experience tells me things that a child can't possibly know until they live it. Doesn't stop me from wanting to shake him until his teeth come out. Doesn't keep him from a potential prison term either. His choices make me so sad some days I wonder how I function at all. Prayer and Welbutrin maybe. (insert serious chuckle - see knees thoroughly worn out) Trying to separate myself from my guilt in realizing that I don't make his choices regardless of his disability helps to some degree. Knowing that if I bring him back to live with me would probably end my marriage before it ever happened and would put me in a grave from health issues? Good deterrent. I mean if my health is this iffy with what he does when he is not here? To bring him back when I'm older than he was when he was here? Not a very good idea for me, or him - the arguing would damage us both - and the house. Something to ponder no matter how much I care. I keep thinking about a few Springs ago we had a nest of Cardinals outside my window and they built their nest on a branch right over our pool. I thought about putting a net over the pool until the chicks were grown. Not my problem - interfering. At one point the Mother took a chick in her beak and tossed the thing out of the nest and it took off in flight then landed. The other got on the edge of the nest, attempted to fly and hit the pool. The parents flew over and sat on the edge of the pool squawking and so on, but never went in and got it. Tough love at it's finest. The parents flew to the baby in the grass and left the little one to struggle in the pool. Eventually he made it, but no extra help. It made me think that even birds have tough love without guilt.

    As far as bringing her home? Does H no have a nice ring? Okay then just no will suffice. (sorry echo's of DF in my head)

    With regards to long term care? You have some really tough decisions to make and I don't envy your task. Either choice I'm afraid will have some guilt. Her freedom vs. your sanity. Not an easy choice.

    Much love - I think for now? I'd try to find a weekend with husband and maybe a nice slow walk in the park - and avoid the amusement park for a while. It will still be there when you come back. :tongue: Saw a bumper sticker at lunch that made me think of you - Get in, Sit down, Buckle up, Hang on!

    Hugs & Love
  10. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Nomad, legally the landlord simply can not lock difficult child out of her apartment. Period. He has to go through proper channels and get a court ordered eviction before he can do that and it takes MONTHS, usually at least 3. Doesn't matter what difficult child has done, not done. That may buy you more time to look into things.

    As for the other..........I've no experience. But I've given it much thought in my Just in case thinking that I do. However if Travis ever needed me to take guardianship of him.........(doesn't look like that will be happening) ......he's easy to live with so the situation wouldn't be the same.

    Guess if it were me I'd try to arm myself with as much info pro and con before making a decision on which way to jump. A really really tough decision for any parent to make I'm certain.

    Star put it well. I'd like to shake Nichole until she sees stars or some sense gets knocked into her........but she has to be the one to make the right decisions or she's never going to learn. And while my brain knows that, my heart keeps telling my brain where to go. I want to snatch her out of that house and out of harms way and fix it. But I can't. And I wonder why I have chronic insomnia.....sheesh. Surprised I haven't rented out my own padded room after the past 2 wks.

    Many heartfelt ((((hugs)))) and know you and difficult child are in my prayers.
  11. Nomad

    Nomad Guest

    Thank you all.
    Star, your post truly touched my heart. I too am aware of the idea that she gets what she deserves. I don't like it when people are cruel to her, but I do not fault people one bit for protecting themselves.
    Wanna hear something STRANGE? difficult child has an acquaintance, same age, also adopted. She moves from apartment to apt. Guess what difficult child said recently??? Something like her parents shouldn't give her money to help her move so often. SAY WHAT? We either don't help her at all with her moves or in a very limited way. (Very limited could not be stressed enough).
    However, she knows it causes stress to herself, her family, all around her and drains her account.
    husband pointed this out to her...and she was very quiet. We are not helping her at all with this move. We haven't been helping her and she has almost nothing left to her name...lost all her furniture...etc. It is all so sad.

    husband and I did not even consider bringing her home.
    Our help for her is limited and mostly confined to medical needs and health related necessities.

    She has made temporary plans to stay with her difficult child friend for one month. He owes husband money (long hideous/never to be repeated/ money never to be seen again) story. So, difficult child is going to stay there. He is asking for a couple of dollars for the month. (Should NOT be asking for anything under the circumstances). He says she can stay there next month as well, and she can pay week to week at that time. Even they recognize that it is not likely to last long. And truth be told, who knows how long she'll last, two weeks...a month....6 weeks. difficult children are not's all a crxp shoot. Anyway, difficult child is making all the arrangements....she's gotten halfway decent at this. And like folks have said here...they have a weird way of landing on their feet. Although each time she lands, she is a little less "okay" than the previous time. It's hard for me to watch....but it is what it is.

    Bottom line is she has to make these tough decisions and changes on her own. difficult child grew up in a nice area, but my city is large, over populated and as you know difficult children tend to live in the rougher areas. As a mom, I worry for her safety. I know you guys understand. It's impossible not to do this. Not sure what to do about it really. That is why I am inquiring about guardianship. Doesn't hurt to ask...but not sure this is the answer. I just hope and pray that sooner, rather than later, she will be able to make more positive changes on her own.

    As always, I am appreciative of your support.
    Lasted edited by : Mar 30, 2010
  12. Star*

    Star* call 911

    I had an "OM is he an (insert expletive) talk" with my Mom tonight about my son, my x" and my Mom laid it out cold for me. Not because she is tired of hearing it, but because sometimes it just takes the voice on the phone (so to speak). My Mother can not stand my x. She tolerates her Grandson, but that's about it. His actions, behaviors and antics ad nauseum, my health, the stroke, our depleted bank account and the little things I've let her in on over the years have been enough for a life time for her. Had I ever let her in on it all? I'm sure I would have gotten a tattoo on my head backwards, paid in full by her that said TOIDI so everytime I looked in a mirror I'd remember - NO MORE. That said? She told me tonight - At some point? My x is not to blame. My son is brilliant and smart and knows EXACTLY what he is doing. He thinks about these things he does - he doesn't just wing it. He has a plan and executes it with precision and thought. I am the one that thinks he's flying by the seat of his pants and helps him every time. I'm the gullible one, I'm the one that gets sxcked into this mess, believes him and gets all tied up in knots with his baloney. Him? He's not thinking one iota of how to put $3,000.00 back into our bank account for his probation, jail fines, ridiculous stunts. He's thinking - Sxckers....they bought that. Again and again. Until they didn't. Then it was - Where is my next sxcker? Oh there is another one. No more thought than that was given to you or your bank account being depleted or your agrivation on the matter. None! You on the other hand have stewed, boiled, sat and wanted to 'have it out, discuss things, really level the playing field, intened on telling him how it's going to be, over and over and he'll sit and listen and pretend to be paying attention, and he's not.' Never has - never will.

    So my Mom's advice to me after tonights dash of an email from Dude - telling me that he's literally thrown away the last 4 years of his life and mine - with 4 months left to go on a 4 year probation and our $3grand investment in his future? No more calls, no more emails. He gave you his answer - let it be.

    I asked Dude why he asked us to be at the bus station at 4:00 AM waiting for him on a work day and didn't show up or have the courtesty to call us when we had to travel over 20 miles to be there? His reply?

    No hi love you....just this - Not coming back -coming to get my dog that's all.

    I've got news for him about "his dog" - she's going to a GOOD HOME. He dropped her off here in November and he took off, hasn't sent us a nickle for her care. His dog? My foot. I'm done. Amusement park closed - due to lack of operating funds.
  13. Nomad

    Nomad Guest

    OMG! Wow.
    WILL re-read.
    We no longer pay out any significant money for difficult child. "Limited" is the word for the day...and we try very hard to keep it confined to health and personal safety issues. We often further limit that help to times where she has difficulties that are not necessarily of her own fault. Certainly not a perfect system. Like everyone else here, it's confusing and complicated and no one seems to have the right answers. We do like that difficult child seems to avoid drugs (she's been drug tested more than once...always clean) and is usually respectful. We cut off communication when is is not respectful or breaks rules.

    Example: She is NOT to call my house on a week day before a certain time. Today, she called 15 mins. too early. I picked up the phone and hung up. Then, I took it off the hook for 30 mins. She texted me what she wanted and called back an hour later. I will NOT talk with her if she breaks a rule or is disrespectful. Period.

    And I do my best to limit personal anguish to 24 hours. In fact, today, I am MUCH better. Yesterday, I limped along forcing myself to get what I personally needed done. Today, will be MUCH better (have high hopes that I can and will be FINE!). :D
    G-d blessed you with a wise mom. Your difficult child was blessed with one as well, he just doesn't recognize it or appreciate it. It is sad. It is his loss. He choses to not to do the work, albeit hard work, necessary to go forward in life. He might need medication, perhaps therapy. But one thing for sure, he has to want change. And he has to be respectful of those who are trying to help him. His choices, again, his loss.

    I know you will you will continue to make your Higher Power and your mother very proud, and put one foot in front of the other, hold your head up high, count your blessings, take heed from this blessed woman (your mom) and move forward in life with gusto as it should be. (hugs). by the way, please thank your mother for me as well!

    p.s. Its gonna be hard, but I would do the same thing with- reference to the dog. It is sad. difficult child had a similar situation and by some MIRACLE I found a home for a cat of hers. She might have another situation coming up (although I did not take the cat personally and never will) and it wont likely have the same positive outcome (if you get my drift). Bottom line: You are a fair and reasonable woman. Your difficult child is not fair and reasonable. Anything but. Protect yourself. IT is is past time. Not only should you close up shop due to lack of operating funds, but you deserve this.

    Side note: Thank you TALAN for the wonderfully helpful PM!

    Thank you again to everyone for your kind and helpful responses.
    Lasted edited by : Mar 31, 2010
  14. Star*

    Star* call 911

    Nomad -

    Yup. I have no idea what the word for beyond blessed is -but I'm that. Doesn't mean I don't get frustrated or stressed, but I absolutely know I'm blessed.

    As far as the dog? It breaks our heart because we get attached, but our intention never was to keep her. :( All difficult child parents know what it's like to put the child or animal before their own wants - this is no different. The ONLY thing we should have done was make the cousin put her BACK in the truck and put our foot down that night. PERIOD. Why we whimped out is still a mystery to us. Sxckers for a wrinkly face and puppy breath - again not fair to her. Every time I see her run across the yard chasing a butterfly? I think - "Forrest Gump needs a new Mother."
  15. mstang67chic

    mstang67chic Going Green

    First of all, hugs.

    As for the guardianship, I don't know how helpful this will be but take what you will.

    For the last 10 years or so and up until her death, husband was guardian for his mother who was a paranoid schizophrenic. He had control of her bank account, was the payee for her disability and made all of her medical decisions. In those areas, it was a good thing as mother in law was either not in any state of mind to do it or was so out of touch with all things financial that she wouldn't have had a clue. As for him GETTING guardianship, in this case it wasn't hard. She was off her medications, had been for awhile and finally snapped, physically attacking her daughter. It was enough to have her hospitalized and husband started the proceedings then. There was a competency hearing but there was no question in her situation which made things a lot easier.

    And as I said, it made life easier in all things financial and medical as husband took care of it all. with all difficult child's no matter the age or diagnosis, just because husband was her guardian, it didn't mean he got her to do anything she still didn't want to. If she didn't want to take her medications, she'd cheek them. OMG...I cleaned out her apartment and found pills EVERYWHERE even in her purse. If she didn't want to leave the apartment for a doctor's appointment, there was no convincing her.

    There are pros and cons to the guardianship but as the parent of a difficult child, my biggest concern would be how liable I would be for difficult child's actions if I was the legal guardian, Know what I mean??

    I know that's not really in depth and may not help, but it's just my take on it.
  16. Nomad

    Nomad Guest

    mstang.... Many thanks! Your reply WAS helpful and yep, the liability concern is a MAJOR topic of discussion. The attorney said it was a non-issue, but husband especially, doesn't feel this is accurate (and has good reasons for this). We are still plugging away...detaching, setting boundaries, moving forward and enjoying life to the best of our ability.
  17. ctmom05

    ctmom05 Member

    Nomad ~

    You should be able to get some useful information about guardianshop or conservatorship from a probate judge in your area. Find out the differences between the two; ask a lot of questions.