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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 17102" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Terry, you said, " I don't want him to have the load of Catholic guilt I dragged around with-me, either"</p><p></p><p>Linda's right - you need to get right away from ANY aspect of blame in any direction. To reply with any form of "but it's NOT my fault" will still leave you on the blame topic, and not going anywhere. The word that keeps cropping up is "fault". </p><p></p><p>Your RC background (or even a Jewish background? plus there are others) can tend to lay a lot of guilt on you. And your own connection to the guilt you grew up with is making it hard for you to avoid it now - it's like fear, people smell it on you. The guilt, the sense of personal responsibility. The problem is, it's programmed so thoroughly into your psyche, even though you KNOW it's unreasonable, that at any hint of blame happening, you try to avoid it. But this is then still about blame.</p><p></p><p>You have to cut yourself off from it or the family never will.</p><p></p><p>In our case, it was easy child who first started insisting, "It's not my fault." OK, she didn't follow through with the next logical point, "...therefore it's YOUR fault," maybe because I wasn't brought up with a load of personal guilt tattooed on my forehead. (Which meant I wasn't such a logical choice to blame). husband, on the other hand, has enough of a personal load of inappropriate guilt for HIM to be the target for a long time.</p><p></p><p>What we did (and still need to do) - we keep repeating, "This is not about blame."</p><p>"Sometimes it's nobody's fault." (although that statement also is still about blame.)</p><p></p><p>Getting back to consequences, as Linda suggested, has also made a big difference to us. Last night difficult child 3 played computer games well past his curfew of 8.30 pm. By the time we reminded him it was almost 9.30 - time for bed. "But I haven't had my ice cream yet!" he complained.</p><p>We reminded him - "If you had stopped your computer game when you were supposed to, you would have remembered in time. You have now run out of time - you used that time to play games. And you haven't even had your bath - you definitely have no time for ice cream, you barely have time to bath and clean your teeth before lights out at 10 pm."</p><p></p><p>difficult child 3 was a partner in setting up these rules, so he can't blame anyone. if he tried to say, "It's your fault for not reminding me," the response is, "It's not my job to remind you. When I DO remind you, it's a bonus, but if I'm busy I can't be responsible for everything you do. This was your choice."</p><p></p><p>By breaking the rules, difficult child 3 missed out on his ice cream. We had no punishment for breaking the rules- we didn't need one.</p><p></p><p>Punishments also tend to bring blame back into the picture. In punishing someone we are inflicting our will on them. We are imposing our views, our desires and (it is perceived) our wrath on them for breaking rules.</p><p>But if you have rules which bring their own punishment for breaking them, or have logical consequences, it is not only closer to real life (and hence prepares them better) but blame stays away much more easily.</p><p></p><p>If difficult child 3 doesn't complete his schoolwork because he sneakily reads a book or wastes time, his punishment is that the work doesn't get done in the allotted time. he then has to give up some of his personal time to get the work done. Sometimes this happens anyway, through no fault of his. Hey, that's life. I still support him whatever the reason, and encourage him. I'm teaching him to reward himself for reaching certain milestones - this is similar to Nomad's suggestions, too. Yesterday difficult child 3 completed the bulk of the work on a school subject, so I took him to the beach. It was a good thing - it was beginning to rain just as we left (no beach today). I pointed out how much more he could enjoy the beach, knowing his work had been done.</p><p></p><p>This also fits with Allan's comments - discipline of the punitive variety causes more problems than it helps. I know this sounds crazy, but changing our mind-set on this has made a huge difference to us. It works. And the result is NOT a spoilt child (as we feared) but a self-governed one. The Asperger's here is an asset - these kids love rules and will try to explain the world with their own rules if we don't give them a more logical set. helping them find the RIGHT rules brings more success than simply being heavy with the discipline.</p><p></p><p>The "I don't care" response, and the continual focus of the child on needing to blame someone - this is abdication of responsibility for consequences. If that continues they will become an adult who takes no personal responsibility and has never learnt the connection between action and consequences.</p><p></p><p>Focussing on blame is a bad thing for everybody. It is depressing, you go through life seeing blame everywhere and feeling it as a personal load.</p><p>But if you can change your thinking (not easy) you see a world where people make mistakes and try to learn from them. Yes, some people are still hung up on blame and will lie to avoid taking responsibility - look on them as sad individuals who won't grow and make the changes they need, to not make the same mistake again. That is sad - but that is no longer you.</p><p></p><p>Vanilla - your difficult child did the wrong thing. It is a crime whether the police are called or not. Until he understands that he will always try to abdicate personal responsibility by amazing mental gymnastics. I know you understand this, but how to teach him? I like your response to him - you're bringing him back to consequences.</p><p>The other point we've made with our kids - we are far more tolerant of their wrongs than the average member of t he public. If he had treated a house mate like that, it would have been far more serious. If you failed in your parental duty to make him take responsibility, then next time it could have been far worse, because allowing him to do this without consequences will escalate t he criminal activity. If there had been no crime to begin with, the police would not have come. if the police are the cause of crime, then we should have no police, for a much happier state.</p><p></p><p>Nomad's suggestions are definitely worth following. But I would also suggest - be hard on yourself, when you notice yourself focussing on blame with other people. Until you break your habits, you will still attract his blame.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 17102, member: 1991"] Terry, you said, " I don't want him to have the load of Catholic guilt I dragged around with-me, either" Linda's right - you need to get right away from ANY aspect of blame in any direction. To reply with any form of "but it's NOT my fault" will still leave you on the blame topic, and not going anywhere. The word that keeps cropping up is "fault". Your RC background (or even a Jewish background? plus there are others) can tend to lay a lot of guilt on you. And your own connection to the guilt you grew up with is making it hard for you to avoid it now - it's like fear, people smell it on you. The guilt, the sense of personal responsibility. The problem is, it's programmed so thoroughly into your psyche, even though you KNOW it's unreasonable, that at any hint of blame happening, you try to avoid it. But this is then still about blame. You have to cut yourself off from it or the family never will. In our case, it was easy child who first started insisting, "It's not my fault." OK, she didn't follow through with the next logical point, "...therefore it's YOUR fault," maybe because I wasn't brought up with a load of personal guilt tattooed on my forehead. (Which meant I wasn't such a logical choice to blame). husband, on the other hand, has enough of a personal load of inappropriate guilt for HIM to be the target for a long time. What we did (and still need to do) - we keep repeating, "This is not about blame." "Sometimes it's nobody's fault." (although that statement also is still about blame.) Getting back to consequences, as Linda suggested, has also made a big difference to us. Last night difficult child 3 played computer games well past his curfew of 8.30 pm. By the time we reminded him it was almost 9.30 - time for bed. "But I haven't had my ice cream yet!" he complained. We reminded him - "If you had stopped your computer game when you were supposed to, you would have remembered in time. You have now run out of time - you used that time to play games. And you haven't even had your bath - you definitely have no time for ice cream, you barely have time to bath and clean your teeth before lights out at 10 pm." difficult child 3 was a partner in setting up these rules, so he can't blame anyone. if he tried to say, "It's your fault for not reminding me," the response is, "It's not my job to remind you. When I DO remind you, it's a bonus, but if I'm busy I can't be responsible for everything you do. This was your choice." By breaking the rules, difficult child 3 missed out on his ice cream. We had no punishment for breaking the rules- we didn't need one. Punishments also tend to bring blame back into the picture. In punishing someone we are inflicting our will on them. We are imposing our views, our desires and (it is perceived) our wrath on them for breaking rules. But if you have rules which bring their own punishment for breaking them, or have logical consequences, it is not only closer to real life (and hence prepares them better) but blame stays away much more easily. If difficult child 3 doesn't complete his schoolwork because he sneakily reads a book or wastes time, his punishment is that the work doesn't get done in the allotted time. he then has to give up some of his personal time to get the work done. Sometimes this happens anyway, through no fault of his. Hey, that's life. I still support him whatever the reason, and encourage him. I'm teaching him to reward himself for reaching certain milestones - this is similar to Nomad's suggestions, too. Yesterday difficult child 3 completed the bulk of the work on a school subject, so I took him to the beach. It was a good thing - it was beginning to rain just as we left (no beach today). I pointed out how much more he could enjoy the beach, knowing his work had been done. This also fits with Allan's comments - discipline of the punitive variety causes more problems than it helps. I know this sounds crazy, but changing our mind-set on this has made a huge difference to us. It works. And the result is NOT a spoilt child (as we feared) but a self-governed one. The Asperger's here is an asset - these kids love rules and will try to explain the world with their own rules if we don't give them a more logical set. helping them find the RIGHT rules brings more success than simply being heavy with the discipline. The "I don't care" response, and the continual focus of the child on needing to blame someone - this is abdication of responsibility for consequences. If that continues they will become an adult who takes no personal responsibility and has never learnt the connection between action and consequences. Focussing on blame is a bad thing for everybody. It is depressing, you go through life seeing blame everywhere and feeling it as a personal load. But if you can change your thinking (not easy) you see a world where people make mistakes and try to learn from them. Yes, some people are still hung up on blame and will lie to avoid taking responsibility - look on them as sad individuals who won't grow and make the changes they need, to not make the same mistake again. That is sad - but that is no longer you. Vanilla - your difficult child did the wrong thing. It is a crime whether the police are called or not. Until he understands that he will always try to abdicate personal responsibility by amazing mental gymnastics. I know you understand this, but how to teach him? I like your response to him - you're bringing him back to consequences. The other point we've made with our kids - we are far more tolerant of their wrongs than the average member of t he public. If he had treated a house mate like that, it would have been far more serious. If you failed in your parental duty to make him take responsibility, then next time it could have been far worse, because allowing him to do this without consequences will escalate t he criminal activity. If there had been no crime to begin with, the police would not have come. if the police are the cause of crime, then we should have no police, for a much happier state. Nomad's suggestions are definitely worth following. But I would also suggest - be hard on yourself, when you notice yourself focussing on blame with other people. Until you break your habits, you will still attract his blame. Marg [/QUOTE]
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