Board Ju Ju for our favorite Star and her 'Good Fight'

Star*

call 911........call 911
Janet - THIS one? Is material.....I'm not going to say which store it was at. Could be fleabay. Could be bEtsy.

I think the prayers are working.....but back off on the juju......LAWD LAWD my entire house is getting organized.....to the tune of 1000 songs in my thingy on the computer.,,you know - that folder with the songs, that I found out yesterday you can hit - PLAY ALL - and just LET ER RIDE....not in any particular order that you downloaded from your CD's because..quite interesting actually to hear Mary Mary - God in me and then hear LICK IT UP - by KiSS.....honestly woman your music choices are really at either end of the spectrum, says DF. ..........OMG did he say SPECTRUM???? ME? DEER IN HEADLIGHTS LOOK. Then just that blank moment between two people with the 'WHAT?"......."WHoT????" look and me hoping to avoid further conversation about anything. Well that and while discussing it - Kirk Franklins - SMILE was playing and as DF walked away a Breaking Benjamin song started.....snort. (insert bray) vooooops.

(does rock arms with peace hands and bobs head as she walks away saying THANK YOU GOD FOR SUCH AWESOME FRIENDS) YEAH!
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
Star... I think I'd better "send" a couple of new songs for ya... just as an antidote when things get too "flying high".
Like... Pachelbel's Canon, Handel's Water Music Suite, and a few others of that sort...

<wink>
 

Star*

call 911........call 911
OH I ADORE Classical music......I have albums and Albums of the Masters......it's actually the absolute best thing to play when there are thunderstorms - puts the dogs right in a calmER state. Sadly however it makes DF's nerves raw. HARPSICORD all around!!!!!
 

Star*

call 911........call 911
Well I spoke with an attorney. He says since the company is an "AT WILL" company. I'm not going to have much of a case based on the fact that they have a handbook. BUT I should still go, and still explain my side of things. THere is ALWAYS a chance. He's seen stranger things happen. I'm not giving up.
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
Star... I believe your case is based on one single word: "voluntary".

Can they drop you off the roster at any time, for practically any reason? Probably.
But... they cannot LIE and call an involuntary termination, voluntary.

And that one little word... makes the diff on your unemployment benefits.
 

Star*

call 911........call 911
Well that word and box is apparently marked on ALL termination hearing cases - so I got uspet on that count for NO reason according to attorney. He said EVERYONE gets upset over that - and chuckled a little but stifled it.

My thought was - They do have a handbook. They do have written rules. I did my best to obey all the rules. The way MY MANAGERS interpreted those rules to ME from the time before I was hired there has been the same way. Then one day - out of the blue because I did the same thing, the same way I'd always done it and a woman I worked for had it out for me? SHE called LP and said "Watch the video" and I was fired.
I'd never been written up before for that -
I'd always called a manager to ring up my fiance, but managers NEVER not once ever, not for me or any OTHER employee made me or anyone else- step away and rung him up.....they just stood there while I rang up my fiance, my Mother. (Issue 1). (Issue 2) They said I am not allowed to use MY credit card for purchases. MY credit card is DF's credit card - it has MY name on it. Not a joint card wtih 2 names on it and I can prove by bank account transaction records that he's come in and used my card NUMEROUS times. So why all those times didn't they write me up, verbally warn me? Fire me? Not once in all the OVER THIRTY TIMES - did that come up? I'm unsure as to how many times I rang him up -but ever time? I called for a MANAGER - every time - a manager came to the register, and every time - I STILL rang him up. SO now I'm a manger, the manager that wanted me in trouble stood 100' away and watched. The other associate was less than 10' - BOTH have been with the company Manager 5 years, associate three years - BOth watched me ring him up and NEITHER said - NO NO that's a violation - you will get into trouble, but ONE made sure LP was called. SHE said she would help me IF I took a job I didn't want - and when I did - she made sure that I got in trouble. NOT helped. I didn't want the position - I took it so another young man with a baby and a wife could get a job - I was TOLD he had a baby and a wife, and NEEDED the job - I had until noon to decide. I figured if I took the manager job - I felt I was NOT ready for - HE would have a job, be able to take care of wife and baby - and I would get help for the things I didn't know as a new manager. I did not - I got hawked, over nickles, and policys that were okay for months and then all of a sudden weren't. Then I got fired. I think the manager KNEW this would happen, wanted it to happen. She knew my fiance, she KNEW he'd been in there numbers of times, she KNEW he paid by DEBIT....and never questioned it any other time.
THAT"s my problem in a nutshell.....they all said "Oh there are policies, but there are LOOPHOLES." I took a job I didn't necessarily want, and got fired for doing something I didn't know was wrong because it was the way I had been trained to do it, and when I was training to be manager and did it wrong? I was NOT corrected? Didn't KNOW I should have been corrected but OBVIOULSLY someone knew it was wrong and instead of assisting me - they didn't call the store manager, they called the people they knew would get me in trouble, and it got me fired. Pretty sad management if you ask me.

Now because it's in a handbook and the STORE MANAGER interpreted the way we did.....SHE got written up.......SO HOW did I interpret what I did WRONG? The rule in the book was taught to me - gone over by management at a meeting, and then I get to my store, as an associate, and trainee - and it's done X YZ way - and has been since day one - and I NEVER got written up for it, there is NOTHING in my personel file about it.....but because it's an AT WILL company - they have the right to interpret their rules their way - and legal eagles get them out of the junk???? THat's not right. I was honest.
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
I don't know your laws.
Here? Well, Ok, up here they do tend to try to protect the employee a little bit. So maybe this doesn't apply. But... Here, unless you pull something that is extreme, they cannot terminate without a history of escalating issues, all written up and documented properly. Extreme = major theft, harassment in the workplace, significant safety violations... things that, if they gave you a second chance, would mean that the rest of the staff would walk out. Black and white stuff. Not following a policies-and-procedures manual? You'd better have a long document of corrective actions attempted, escalating issues, etc. No paper trail? It becomes a "layoff".

So, what happens here is... if they want to get rid of somebody? They just re-organize the department so that the position is no longer needed, and give you an "immediate layoff" notice. Which means, no recourse on the job but you do get unemployment. It's less hassle than being slapped with a wrongful dismissal suit - and dismissal for cause requires lots of accurate paper trail that nobody has time to do.

Here's hoping there's some common sense in the system somewhere!
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
Half the states in the US are at will states because they dont have unions. No one wants unions. Well I guess some folks do but most dont, including businesses and working people dont want to pay union dues because we make less money down south. So we are an at will state which means they can fire you at will even if that means they dont like the color of your eyes one day. However, firing because they dont like the color of your eyes most of the time will get you unemployment. That is considered an unjust firing. or basically they just wanted you gone and couldnt come up with any other better reason. Thinking back to when I was let go from dss, I probably should have applied for unemployment because they let me go because they wouldnt extend my FMLA and I needed more time to take care of my mom. I dont know if I would have got it for that but who knows. They tried to write me up for some pitiful reason and I refused to sign the write up and they fired me on the spot. The write up reason was not in the handbook though so they couldnt fall back on that one.

I still think you fight the unemployment as high up as you can take it and eventually they will cave.
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
However, firing because they dont like the color of your eyes most of the time will get you unemployment
That is the part that I would expect... but of course, I don't live where Star is.
If the person hands in a letter of resignation... that is voluntary termination - no UI.
If the person has a long history of documented problems, or pulls a major stunt... that is involuntary termination, but for just cause - no UI.
Anything else... "should be" involuntary termination - with UI.

they have the right to interpret their rules their way - and legal eagles get them out of the junk???

They are allowed to terminate your position for any reason under the sun. I get that part.
They just don't have the right to prevent you from collecting UI without a really, really good reason. Legal eagles or not. (jmo...)

And that, dear Star, is exactly the part you are fighting.

Really - you don't want the job back, knowing what you now know about how they operate... you just want what is rightfully yours so you can pick up the pieces and soldier on.
 

Star*

call 911........call 911
See that's just it - EVEN the evil manager said out loud to the Manager and it WAS overheard - AND the manager told me ---she said "I didn't mean for her to get fired, I just wanted to get her in trouble."

I've never been in trouble, never been written up. NADA. I follwed the rules the way my store manager, and sr. manager (evil one) had TOLD ME, and set an example of for months. One other guy has his wife come in there on occasion. When I've observed her buying things, he calls for a manger. The manager stands there next to him while HE rings up HIS wife, and takes the payment. The manager didn't RING the wife up. So to me for all these months THIS is how this rule is interpreted.

The store manager told me she was written up after I got fired because even though she WROTE the rule, she interpreted it wrong, set a bad example, and as a result of her example on this rule I got fired. Didn't get me my job back.

Then anytime someone wanted to buy an item in the store we were told as long as it went out the day before......and wasn't bought that day? We were allowed to buy it. (shrug) They didn't ever specify if it went out at 4:00 or 6:00 or you came in the next day at 3:00 - Both evil manager and an associate told me this was a loophole.

I'd seen the sr. mgr. one - and the associate she was in kahoots with - find something that another employee wanted. They put it out late /closing. The next day the employees wife came in to BUY it first thing in the morning. Now I didn't know this was wrong, never thought anything about it. But after I was in jeopardy of loosing my job and I KNEW this was how the rule was interpreted I did report it to the store manger - what I saw - that all three of them knew this blanket was found, put out, and bought by someones wife. And the associate and the wife while not related were best friends. So I reported it, Ipointed out the blanket and nothign was done to the sr,mgr., the associate OR the employee whose wife came in and got him the blanket he wanted. WHY? He's a great worker, and the sr. manger just got me fired - the tapes were reviewed but what do you know after working there three years - they knew how to avoid the cameras. Nothing showed up on camera and my word wasn't good enough even though I pointed out the blanet standing with store manager four feet from the bag.

I just don't know what to talk about....what to bring up, what is important to this tribunal. DO I know this place is crooked and runs on it's OWN skewed set of values? Yes. Do I know they pick and choose? Yup. Do I know they HAD to make an example out of me and could NOT just write me up because the sr. manager KNEW about the situation and would blow a horn on EVERYONE for NOT firing me? Yup. SHe knew I'd be fired.

She knew my fiance had been in there dozens of times and bought stuff while I was cashiering - as a NON manager. Never bothered her then to let me ring him up with my credit card.

She knew my fiance was in the store THAT day and even though I hadn't been a manager long, and was told I'd get support if I took that job that I did NOT want - because I felt I didn't know Goodwills policiys very well -THE MANAGEMENT DID NOT support me. They stood there and watched me violate rules and then din't call the store manager and say WHAT do I do? They called LP and said WATCH the cameras.

The day BEFORE this went on - The sr. Manger ALSO found a note in the cash drawer I had asked to buy two older nickles. Not steal, buy. I still have that note. Sr. manager - did not call the store manager....she called LP and said SHE IS TRYING TO STEAL NICKLES and is violating policy. SHe never called me.....to say - HEY you can't do this, she never called the boss to say - HEY you should have a talk with star - NOPE over TWO nickles she called LP and said SHE NEEDS TO BE WITTEN UP. I think I'm taking that note to the meeting.

I just don't know how to condense this - I don't want to talk and talk - and go on and on - I need to stick to facts........and I'm all alone. (well except for .....you know. )
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
I just don't know what to talk about....what to bring up, what is important to this tribunal.
Yes, you do.
You just need to figure out which parts to CUT out. Know what I mean??
All the data is there.

Here's some examples of what you need to bring up, from your post above:
- I've never been in trouble, never been written up. (supoena for paperwork... any evidence?)
- I follwed the rules the way my store manager, and sr. manager (evil one) had TOLD ME, and set an example of for months (call other staff on how things were and are done...)
- The store manager told me she was written up after I got fired because even though she WROTE the rule, she interpreted it wrong, set a bad example, and as a result of her example on this rule I got fired. Didn't get me my job back. (but you can call on her in court... and supoena her paperwork on her file, for proof of the write-up)

It's not about what the others did or did not do.
It's about YOU.
And YOU... have no history of problems there, and were let go over what is obviously an "internal issue"... You aren't contesting their ability to let you go for whatever reason. You are simply contesting the "box" they put you into... you did not "quit". Nothing voluntary about it. So... having been let go without due cause (no paperwork, and nothing major) and not having quit... YOU get the UI.

Getting the UI is the entire point. The rest is moot.
 

tiredmommy

Well-Known Member
Do they have a policy of progressive discipline? Because it seems that EM (evil manager) just compiled info and didn't address it as it happened so that your behavior could be corrected. You should have been, in essence, "re-trained" on the correct interpretation of the handbook's rules and regulations.
 

Star*

call 911........call 911
THe issue of the voluntary quit is not an issue. They mark that box on ALL unemployment termination paperwork in SC. The attorney said everyone freaks about that - it's not what I took it to mean. I was TERMINATED. Not voluntary quit. So that's not an issue.

A manager can at his/her own discretion give you verbal warnings about lots of things. Stealing, violation of written policy, absenteeism are not among them. Like if one of our people was taking breaks to smoke, when they should be doing something else - and it became a habit? Then a few verbal warnings may turn into a write up. That write up goes into your permanent file. That file follows you wherever you go in the company. IT NEVER goes away, it's off your "record" but the remarks will always be there they just don't count towards dismissal. You get a restart every so many years or quarters for certain violations. I do remember something about that.

The way the book states it - and the book is 64 pages long - it says"
The following deficiencies;/offenses and types of discipline do NOT in any way, modify or expand the at-will employment status of any associate. In other words, the explanations set forth below provide guidelines. These guidelines are, however flexible, and from time to time, in Goodwill's sole discretion, they may be modified, changed or entirely ignored. Furthermore, GW reserves the right to terminate any associate for any reason or no reason, including the right to determine what constitutes a serious offense or an offense warranting immediate termination. This reservation of discretion with GW is necessary to address various employment situation, which are numerous and unique as the people they involve.

GROUP ONE RULES

Associates who violate GOR may be subjecte to disciplinary action including a written personnel action repor and/or termination.

I violated #18 - employee purchase policy.

Group TWO RULES -

Violation of Group Two Rules or General Safety Rules normally resutls in progressive discipline. However these guidelines are flexible and from time to time in GWs sole discretion these guidelines may be modified, changed or entirely ignored. Progressive discipline steps may be skipped entirely or used out of the typical order, or no discipline may be imposed at all.

Assoc. may receive a written warning for each group two rule or eneral safety rule violation. A copy of such warnings should be placed in the associates personnel file. Four written warnings for violations of GT rules or GS rules within a twelve month period or flagrant or willful violations may result in discharge.

The rule in question #18 -

Associates serving in the role of cashier CAN NOT "check out" any family members, relatives, or any other individual who may reside in the same household with the GOodwill associate working at the cashregister.

Associates should contact their supervisor or manager for guidance and assistance on specific procedures or questions related to associate purchases.

SO When and all the times (by record of my bank debit statements) that I have checked DF out on the register - I was to call CODE 1. This is calling a manager to the front.
When I was a truckdriver serving as cashier to fill in for employee absences? I did this. Code 1. This means a manager has to be there when you are rinigng up family.
Store manager or sr. manager would come to the cash wrap area.
They would stand there.
They would WATCH me ring DF up.
They would WATCH me take the credit/debit card - which has ALWAYS and FOREVER been in my name (by proof of bank statements)
They would Watch him leave.

NOT ONCE - NOT one time - did either of them, or any other ACTING manager - EVER tell me - STEP aside.


Then I became a manager.
I would call CODE 1 if DF, or my Mom were in the store.
They BOTH used MY card.
I called the manager to the front on Christmas EVE for my DF - she stood there - and watched.
She left - went back to working
My Mom decided to get some blinds and even stopped Sr. manager to ask her about the blinds - was there another one? She didn't know she answered.
I called code 1 when my Mom was ready to go -
Sr. manager didn't even come ALL the way to the register. She came as far as the buggies, and started to put bags in the buggies. She never came near the cash wrap area.

SO -----if on those instances THIS is the assistance I am being taught as an associate and a manager for STORE procedures? WHY would I think it any different....WHEN I BECAME a manager....and could NOW ring up people without another manager there - In the past all you needed was a manager present to ring up sales for a family member and I was a manager. I had the keys to the store, the combination to the safe. I was trusted with the alarm code, cash deposits, and nothing seemed unusual about anything I did in that transaction because my sr. Manager stood right there and watched me. I could see her. IF I HAD DONE SOMETHING WRONG....Against policy.....and after turning this postion down THREE TIMES........because I didn't feel I knew GOODWILLS methods of operation as well as I should to be a manager....WHY wouldn't this manager have said any other time - You're violating procedure. I need to ring your fiance up. You can't ring him up. OH you rang him up - you're getting written up you should know better. ???? ANd WHY this particular time didn't she tell OUR store manager instead of loss and prevention to watch the cameras and let HER give me a written or verbal warning?
I have nothing in my personnel file that says I have ever been written up or progressively warned about any issue I was terminated over.

FURTHERMORE - I would like to know WHAT this particular store did after I was terminated -

DId they have a meeting with all their employees to make sure everyone was clear on how the policy was stated and interpreted? Why AFTER I was fired? Everyone went thorugh the same orientation I went through. Why this extra step for them -and not a verbal warning for me?

HAs the policy been correctly interpreted and did they change the way they check out family members and household members today? DOes a manager take over the register now when an employee purchase is made? Making the associate or manager on duty step aside? They didn't before.

Was anyone written up i management then?
 

Star*

call 911........call 911
I don't know - In SC they don't have to tell you. The only thing my paper said when it came was - Terminated. Employee violated associate purchase policy rule. As stated in handbook. And While I TOLD Unemployment the exact same thing THEY did - I also told unemployemt what I'm telling you now - that THEY didn't follow their own rules and STILL fired me - HOW can they tell me one thing, SHOW me one thing, ALLOW me to DO that thing for months and then say WELL we have to fire you anyway - even if they have NEVER written me up for it, and followed the same procedure and precidence with other employees? THAT is what made NO sense to me. I was gobsmacked. It was like - Well OKAY - you have to fire me because yes it states the policy in the book, I did get the orientation like everyone else - but you ALLOW me to check out my fiance when he's in here EVERY SINGLE OTHER TIME - and now THIS time you make a choice and say - Ummm nope you're fired and THEN have a special meeting about it and say to other employees - MAKE SURE you get a manager to ring your family members up NOT yourself and the manager got written up for wrongly interpreting the SAME rule for MONTHS? WTH?

NOT right - and in the state of SC - the law (as I understand it says - ) It is illegal to fire an employee (for number of reasons) BUT one of the reasons IS - FIRING an employee for not following your own rule when you don't follow it yourself. THEY TRAINED me to follow their own rule by their interpretation BOTH MANAGERS - and then this ONE time said - UM NO.
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
This is almost not a UI issue... it's almost "wrongful dismissal"... but that takes a lawyer. Maybe one on contingency? You still don't want the job back, but... a year's worth of salary would be nice.
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
I don't know - In SC they don't have to tell you.
They don't have to give a reason for turning you down for UI???

<headshake>

In that case, I'd be guessing that somebody's relative works at the UI screening office... and is covering the EM's tracks. As soon as there is a lack of transparency... it leaves the door open to all sorts of abuses.
 

Star*

call 911........call 911
The only thing is says on my paperwork is -
You were discharged from your job with y our most recent bona fide employwer for violation of company policy. Policies violated were not unreasonable and you did have opportunity of knowledge of the company policyies. Failure to comply with company policies constitutes discharge for cause in connection with the work under south carolina code section 41-35-120(2) you are disqualified for UI.

The record shows violation of the wmpoloyers purchase policy. THE RECORD? You mean that statement I filled out that said - I knowingly violated the polciy and Im sorry but I didn't know I actually violated it the way it was written? They didn't write it up that way and had me sign it - and said I had to sign it. So I did. I asked for a copy - they said they didn't have to give me a copy. It was their property.

DId I violate it the way that HR and LP interpreted it? YEs. DId i violate it the way that I was taught by the store manager and the sr. manager? NO. Did I violate anything by the way I was trained? NO.

THAT is my issue.

I also just came across my most recent review - and on the back it says - EMPLOYEE should STAY in current position for at least a YEAR before moving to an advanced position. OKAY so why keep asking me if I wanted to move to a job I wasn't ready for? AND WHY tell me youj'd support me with all the training and then DO NOT? Just don't even write me up or call the store manager - just skip right to LP and tell them to watch the cameras.
 
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