Broken and despairing. Bereft. No hope left.

[Lil]

I believe our kids want much of what we want for them: comfort, security, esteem. I just think they see it is the responsibility of others to provide it

The idea I had in the back of my mind is I would leave my son with the animals. Which on the face of it, is kind of nutty, because so many of our issues with him involve his letting the animals destroy everything, no matter what we ask. (Not to mention the last time we came back when he took care of the animals, we had some new ones--maggots all over the floor!)

I don't really have time to say much, but something occurred to me while I was reading, forgive me for "thinking out loud".

I think it may be impossible to treat a Difficult Child like an adult when they are still under our roofs.

Unlike "typical" adult children, who for some reason are either back in the nest or haven't flown yet, our kids are still behaving like KIDS. Like a 10 year old, we can't trust them to be alone for long or they might burn the house down, or (more likely) things may be lost (broken/stolen), or they'll leave a huge mess, or they'll forget to take the dog out, or they won't buy and fix food, even if they have money, they'll waste it, they won't even brush their teeth and shower and change their clothes, they won't manage their daily lives!

And even if they are "better" and start working and getting their own money - they don't see any reason to pay US. That's their money. We're their parents. We're supposed to put a roof over their heads and food in their bellies. We're supposed to pay the bills. Their money, like a 10 year old with an allowance, is for fun. (Let's face it...even when they don't live with us and have their own bills to pay, it's not like they make the best choices with money. How many times have they had no food or not paid the electric, but they had beer and cigarettes?)

I'm mostly talking about myself here - I think them behaving like children, makes us think of them as children; incapable of dealing with life. So we ask them if they called their student loan lender. We tell them to clean their room. We get mad if they "play hooky" from school or work. We tell them to bathe and brush their teeth. We try to show them how to dress for interviews and how to look for work. We impose prohibition on a person of legal age and of course, as any "typical" kid would, they resent and they rebel - but unlike the "typical" kid, because they're still stuck in that immature stage, like a child they act out.

Now, I'm not saying some of our difficult children aren't incapable. Some actually are bad enough off that they must receive help...but they know that! What's more they know where they can get it. But it so much easier to have us do it.

I can't count, when our son was here, how many times I told him to clean his room, do his laundry, take a shower, brush his teeth! And his response when he'd had enough was to have a tantrum like a 3 year old. I tried, I really did, to treat him like a grown up. In fact, I gave up on telling him what to do, just waiting for him to do the things adults do. But eventually, after a week or two with no shower and no...adulting...I'd break and be mommy again.

And he was BETTER! He was SO much better. Working, even though he had to take the bus over an hour to go what should be a 10 minute drive, giving us 1/2 his check to save for rent. Not stoned, not a ton of drinking. Few tantrums...but not none. He was better - but still acting like a child in so many ways.

You know the last time Jabber and I were able to take much time and go away? Rome. 2010. My in-laws house-sat and "baby-sat" our son, who was 15. I'd long thought of the day, when he was 17 or 18, a senior, that we could leave for a week and let him take care of things. (We have a good neighborhood watch; parties wouldn't likely happen.) But we couldn't, didn't dare, leave him alone for a weekend at that age. We could never leave our dogs with him for any length of time. We didn't dare let the yard and house go and expect him to care for them. Jabber and I haven't taken a vacation while he was IN our home, since. We took a week year before last when he was off with a girlfriend. We took a holiday at Christmas last year; our son was in his own place. Both times we boarded the dogs.

Typical adult kids can be counted on to pick up your mail and feed your cat. Typical adult kids can watch your house when you are gone. Typical adult kids, if they live with their parents, live like adults live and as a result, are far more likely to be treated like adults.

I also like the garage idea Copa...if you can lock up the house and board your pets. He'll have a roof over his head and he has money! He can buy food for himself. He'll really be on his own and you won't be out any additional money (except maybe utilities) and you can GO and have your adventure.

 

[Copabanana]

Thank you very much RE. Where I respond to your emancipatory voyage, is below. First, to the mundane. But before I get to it there is this:

ready to leap into the unknown in your own life but hindered by your love, devotion and sense of responsibility of your son.

This is such a beautiful way to put it. Most of the time it either feels like a ball and chain or a hair shirt. Or like I am in a lunatic asylum and I am the patient. I like the reframe. I just do not see myself in it.

Had you written desperate, screaming Mimi, with wild hair and her stained flannel nightgown, trying to fit under her bed to hid (with CNN droning on in the background)--but not fitting anymore due to unfortunate weight gain, I would have recognized myself.

make sure your son is restricted so your property and belongings and pets are safe.

You know some family members of M cared for the animals 2 times (different people) and our good jewelry, watches, sunglasses disappeared (I did not realize it for some time.) I miss my 18k gold hoop earrings which were my faithful friends when I was in Argentina and Brasil. How I loved them.

My son will not steal. And he loves the animals. He has shown his devotion and care to them.

But, as I read this, I realize I want nobody in my house. Except for perhaps a bonded pet sitter and I wonder if there is such a person in my area. I live in the boonies.

(The apartment) your son could fix up on his own and not be in the main house.

Yes. I think this is a good idea. Except my son is not a self-starter and has few skills that would enable him to do this. While he has been helping M for the past 9 or 10 months, he has been doing the jobs M had his own kids doing when they were little--he can paint, though.

The apartment is a separate almost 800 sq ft building over a detached garage on the alley. It is completely apart--I would say almost 50 feet. It has its own address, too. So he could find his own roommate (there are 2 bedrooms). Would I just let him find who he wanted to live with, or not? Would I have a right to request drug testing (for my son) or is this illegal? Does anybody know? Even if I do not charge rent? Would I charge rent?

I meant the choice to detach from your son, that is the only choice we can really make

Except there is that primal scream in response to the need to do this. I mean why should I have to detach from the person I love most in the world?

So here we embark on our journey!!

That's the choice! Go for it!

I felt excited for you.....a new adventure with just you and M

I'm excited for both of us Copa, in our 60's planning our next adventure

When I read about your (and husband's) quest I felt so excited for you too!! And it made me feel more secure in the reality of our own dreams.

Now that my daughter is on a better path and my granddaughter is on her own, my husband and I are looking at options like yours. It is exciting

RE. I hope you share with us some of your ideas, and of your hopes and aspirations for traveling. Will you look for a second residence? Or take to the road? Do you plan on leaving the country?

Our plans have been to go back East to certain large cities where the cost of living is lower than CA large Cities where I am now priced out. We would like to check out places like Cleveland, Newark, maybe even Detroit. I want to go where there is a large Jewish population because I am very much returning to my faith. Also, I want to go where there is an artistic community. And restaurants and movie theaters and outside community spaces. Community would be nice! While I love aspects of where I live (I love being in a diverse, largely working class community) I am more than that, too.

RE have you thought about what it is you seek for yourself, as you travel? Is it something that is missing, like for me, or is it something that you seek? Or is it the very process of shedding skin and being open to what comes? Kind of almost a surrender, by letting go? How exciting is this!

Actually part of our travel situation is an unpleasant reality. You may remember M is undocumented. While he is sanguine for the most part, I have been deeply destabilized as our new reality sinks in.

I have long wanted to live abroad (and I did for several years and loved it.) But to be forced to leave is a different thing altogether. Where would we go together? There is no agreement. Or would we go from place to place? Or separate? Who knows?

M is sensitive to political situations. We could both go to Argentina, for example, which I love. But the pesky political and economic problems bother M (and me, not at all.) Same thing about the corruption and strife in Brasil where I lived. (It would not bother me a bit. Because it is not personal to me.

But I do not know where in the world, now, is exempt from uncertainty, and strife and chaos, except perhaps Australia/New Zealand, places that would not be my first choices.

Now that my daughter is on a better path and my granddaughter is on her own, my husband and I are looking at options like yours. It is exciting

What would you and your husband like to do, RE?

Now that my daughter is on a better path and my granddaughter is on her own, my husband and I are looking at options like yours. It is exciting

RE. I hope you share with us some of your ideas, and of your hopes and aspirations for traveling. Will you look for a second residence? Or take to the road? Do you plan on leaving the country?

I have been very scared lately for good reason. M has not committed any crimes. He has been back and forth to the States legally for more than 30 years. He has been here continuously 12 years and has citizen siblings. His father is a permanent resident and he is here in the States, now.

But I can see how, now, for him everything has changed. And now for me, too. As I write this I can see why the last week has been so de-stabilizing for me. Largely, I did not acknowledge it.

The following is a digression. Jump one paragraph, if you wish: The voices against undocumented people's presence here in our country I deeply understand. I empathize too. Because despite the changing I did in my lifetime I am a working class person, of working class parents and grandparents. I care so deeply about my people in Michigan, Pennsylvania. In Wisconsin and Ohio. Appalachia and the South. I care deeply too about both side of the Culture Wars. These are issues we have to work out as a family. Inclusion and deeply held moral beliefs. I hope we can keep in mind the love and responsibility in the human family. CD is a model for doing so. We are so humane in our differences here, nearly always remembering the grief and love and responsibility and morality that unites us. Regardless of who we are on the surface of things: geographically, ethnically, politically, culturally, and all the rest of it.

None of this is a political statement. Only the acknowledgement that I (we) are affected by the political as much as we can affect it. All of this means that there could well be a great deal of chaos and discord here for a long time, in our society and our world. Although in a way I welcome it, but I fear it too. We cannot leave the country because M could be arrested by ICE as he leaves, and because once left, he could not return. (Forgive me, people. I am not asking for either understanding or pity. It is only a reality that is affecting our lives. Everything in his life was already in place when I met him. We are only have to deal with it.

Thank you everybody for your support. I am feeling so much better today, because of it. M thinks my son has left, but I looked in his closet and I saw his Pandeiro (Brasilian musical instrument.) Maybe it is here for safekeeping, and he has left. That is still good. His phone is broken and I will have no way to contact him, if he is gone. That something of him/his is left, I will have solace.

Thank you.

 

[Copabanana]

I just looked and found a bonded and insured pet sitter in my town who lives close to me!

It is only $30 a day for 2 visits, each one half hour at least. She says. It is a start!

 

[mof]

Lil...I need to stop being his Mom...reminding him to do mundane stuff....I have tried to be conscious of me telling him these things. He lives with us out of need as he shapes his life...it's hard to see him as A man child who is just th a t....man child. He grows in adulting every month.....and I need to also.

Your statements were very real for me.

 

[recoveringenabler]

Or like I am in a lunatic asylum and I am the patient. I like the reframe. I just do not see myself in it.

Copa, I felt as if I was in a lunatic asylum too......but thankfully, we CAN change. Now I feel like I am an adventurer about to take off on a journey........way more fun!!

I realize I want nobody in my house.

Yes I have come to that conclusion as well. I like the pet sitter idea and it looks like you found one!

Except my son is not a self-starter and has few skills that would enable him to do this.

If the place has electricity and water and heat, then it sounds as if it is enough. It beats the streets and he would be safe. I've had to give up what my idea of esthetics is where my daughter is concerned....geez, she's lived in a place with no water for over a year!!

Would I just let him find who he wanted to live with, or not? Would I have a right to request drug testing (for my son) or is this illegal? Does anybody know? Even if I do not charge rent? Would I charge rent?

Well, if it were me I would say no roommates. That is just my opinion based on my own experience, but that unknown person will be on your property and you won't be there. I would make sure that I felt safe and make that my priority, not what my son wants, but what I want. You are offering him a place to stay, it is your home, you get to make the rules. I have felt that people need to contribute SOMETHING, whether it's rent or work but otherwise resentment builds on both sides, he should have something he has to offer for a living space.

Except there is that primal scream in response to the need to do this. I mean why should I have to detach from the person I love most in the world?

I can't tell you how long I ruminated and railed against that too Copa. Sigh. I know how you feel. Yes it sucks, but from my point of view, it is necessary for US so we can let go and accept what is. I was just listening to yet another CD by Eckhart Tolle and one of his favorite quotes is "if you don't like something in your life you have 3 choices, change it, leave it or accept it. Anything else is insanity." I know I can't change my daughter and I can't leave her, so all that is left is to accept it........clearly the hardest choice too.

When I read about your (and husband's) quest I felt so excited for you too!! And it made me feel more secure in the reality of our own dreams.

Ahhhh, Copa, thank you for saying that.......I've had to do a bit of work too to feel that security in my dreams. I know exactly what you mean.

RE. I hope you share with us some of your ideas, and of your hopes and aspirations for traveling. Will you look for a second residence? Or take to the road? Do you plan on leaving the country?

Thanks for asking Copa. Well, as you know, I retired last year and I made a hard choice then to wait one entire year before I made any big choices. During the year my husband and I have talked about many options. As the year progressed, my daughter and granddaughter were doing better and that made a huge difference to clear the road ahead. In addition I needed to go through the grief of letting go of my career, and then fear emerged about the void left in my life without work and parenting.....so I've been busy on an inner journey too. It's been a year of intense changes internally and externally. I put myself first for the first time and you may recall, we began a whole new dietary experiment with no dairy, sugar, meat and processed foods as well as a very good exercise program.......so we are in very good health.......we completed our wills......we organized the house and got rid of a lot of stuff we didn't need.......the year has been kind of an in-between time, the old is gone, the new hasn't arrived yet.....so I spent the year getting healthier, and on pretty much all levels cleaning up my life.

Like you, we're looking at the possibility of selling the house and moving.....to another country? Maybe, more research is required. I am on a bunch of sites where older folks are RV'ing, traveling the world, living abroad, it's been fun to look at all of that. I see this time as the talking about options time......now that we got a lot out of the way, it is getting closer to a time of movement, but not quite yet. Right now we're considering going to Kauai (our favorite place on the planet) for an extended time, sort of to rest, soak in the beauty and that incredible balmy air, and think about options. But that wouldn't be until after the New Year anyway. I've even thought about going back to school! I think if things had been different, I would have ventured more to art and writing......I love school so that would be fun too.

Many years ago I took a workshop where the facilitator gave us this way of looking at options.....first you have what he called "conversations for possibilities." That is where my husband and I are right now. And, it's way fun to have these conversations too! After you get through with that stage, you then have "conversations for action." That's the next step for us......but that may be next year some time, I am not interested in rushing......I want to uncover my buried desires and really make sure I am focused on what it is I truly want. I read something the other day that made sense to me, " to live a soul driven life where your intention is to create harmony, cooperation, sharing and a reverence for life." The author talked about a "sacred task" and "authentic power" which all resonated with me as well. I'm reading books that are helping me negotiate this new life. I started with a new therapist who is helping me create a vision with the steps necessary to create this new life. So I am in this fully now......As my husband jokingly says to me all the time now, "it's all about YOU now!"

Our plans have been to go back East to certain large cities where the cost of living is lower than CA large Cities where I am now priced out.

I live in Northern California, so I hear you! We are in a similar situation.....We've thought about taking a few months and a long road trip and going to different states/towns which we like and renting a small place for a few months and then traveling around that area to see if that would work on a permanent basis for us. We love the south, Savannah, Charleston, the small islands off of Georgia......but I'm not sure that would be a good fit.....hence the short stay. We could just keep on moving around the US for awhile checking out towns and staying for awhile.....and then moving on. I read about a couple who bought an RV and trucked around for awhile, started a blog and then left the country to live in various other countries......they evolved in their original travel plan.

RE have you thought about what it is you seek for yourself, as you travel? Is it something that is missing, like for me, or is it something that you seek? Or is it the very process of shedding skin and being open to what comes? Kind of almost a surrender, by letting go? How exciting is this

Great question Copa, thanks. I think I've been shedding that skin now for about 5 years, ever since my daughters life blew apart. The changes I made during that time placed me in a very different zone and that zone made this new thinking possible. I believe in being open to what is next but doing my homework as well. Yes, it is definitely a surrender, a letting go.......the old life is gone, perhaps this whole life as I know it is gone......maybe selling the house and taking off is exactly the right thing to do.......I'm not quite there yet. Travel is probably my favorite thing to do, so I am seeking that kind of adventure, but with a certain amount of comfort since my days of staying in youth hostels is long gone! Having traveled a good amount, I know how each step leads you somewhere else......if you have no agenda or time constraints you can show up for what happens in an open way and go with it.

I read this the other day and it felt important to me......it is what I want and what I seek...."The outer path we take is public knowledge, but the path with heart is an inner one. The two come together when who we are that is seen in the world coincides with who we deeply are. As we grow wiser, we become aware that the important forks in the road are usually not about choices that will show up on any public record; they are decisions and struggles to do with choosing love or fear; anger or forgiveness; pride or humility. They are soul shaping choices." "May you know which path has heart and have the courage to take it." I'm not sure I've ever had my outer path and my inner path coincide and I'm determined to live that way now.

As I read, research and talk to my husband, insights and awarenesses are coming forth.....giving me clues as to what this next stage of life will look like. I'm preparing for it now.

I can understand your concerns about M and his undocumented status. What are your options?

The new political climate may alter our plans a tad, I'm not sure yet.....

Thanks for the opportunity to gain a little more clarity Copa.......it's a whole new world out there for you and I.......let's go for it!

 

[Lil]

I mean why should I have to detach from the person I love most in the world?

But don't you think parents of typical children detach? For instance, Jabber hasn't seen his parents in a few months now and it's not like we call all the time. In fact, I talked to them Saturday, but Jabber was hunting, so they didn't stop by. We called a few weeks ago to get his mom's date of birth, but it was a quick question and answer time. We'll see them at family Thanksgiving and at Christmas. But we likely won't talk between then.

If this is detachment:
*Ability to allow people, places or things the freedom to be themselves.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.
* Giving another person "the space" to be herself.
* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with people.
* Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control a person, place or thing.
* Developing and maintaining of a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life.
* Establishing of emotional boundaries between you and those people you have become overly enmeshed or dependent with in order that all of you might be able to develop your own sense of autonomy and independence.
* Process by which you are free to feel your own feelings when you see another person falter and fail and not be led by guilt to feel responsible for their failure or faltering.
* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing or controlling.
* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective and recognizing that there is a need to back away from the uncontrollable and unchangeable realities of life.
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people you love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to practice tough love and not give in when they come to you to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
* Ability to allow people to be who they "really are" rather than who you "want them to be."
* Ability to avoid being hurt, abused, taken advantage of by people who in the past have been overly dependent or enmeshed with you.
Read more: http://www.conductdisorders.com/community/threads/article-on-detachment.53639/#ixzz4Q6actsfh

...then they are detached. They live their own lives. They travel and visit family, do their church thing, visit with their kids, and I'm sure would be first in line for moral support - they came running when we first started having problems with our son - to listen, counsel, and give support. But they didn't try to fix things. They didn't blame themselves or anyone for our issues. They didn't let our issues become their issues. I'm sure they worried a bit and prayed for us, and they tried to help our son for a short time, giving him a home. But they determined that would not work and backed away. They don't call and ask us how it's going with him...though they ask after him from time to time, in the process of asking after all of us.

I'm sure my parents would have been the same way. Wow....do I ever miss them these days.

I guess my point is, Copa, that you and I both hate the idea of detaching from someone we love to pieces. But I know that it's necessary.

 

[BusynMember]

Detaching from a typical child is different. You still feel close and warm and proud. Detaching from a difficult child hurts more in my opinion and experience. Our memories of them are not the same...hard to explain. I'd still feel sad if my typical kids only called me once every few months though. I hear at least once a week, usually more.

Of course difficult son calls me most of all and I admit I am not always up to answering him. I wish he would find one person to talk to besides me. But that never lasts long...if he lived with me or even near me and I had no other children near, I'd probably leave the country. There is no way I could do it. I can picture trying to walk away to get peace and him following me, ranting. No. Couldnt.

Re, I loved your post. It got me all pumped about my future RV travel life which will take place when 61 year old hub retires next year. I love knowing other seniors are traveling and having fun. Thanks so much for sharing.

 

[Lil]

I'd still feel sad if my typical kids only called me once every few months though.

I know people have posted before that it seems like not enough contact...but keep in mind, Jabber's parents have SEVEN kids! Not to mention all the adult grandkids. If they all called every week they'd better have unlimited minutes, lol. Several of the other kids live close, and we're all on Facebook, including father-in-law. They have plenty of company.

 

[Copabanana]

For instance, Jabber hasn't seen his parents in a few months now and it's not like we call all the time

Intellectually, while I cannot say I want detachment as described, I can see I may have no choice--eventually--my son will build a life separate from me, in which I have no vote or voice.

I mean, what right do I have to have a voice in the life of an adult? Which is exactly the situation now that is leading to such dismay on my part, on all of our parts: I should not to have either voice or responsibility in the life of my adult child.

Except I do think there are cultural differences in the extent to which family members, particularly, grown children and parents, separate-or stay close. My grandparents were very much a part of life in my mother's home until her second marriage. In M's family, his children are very, very close to their mother--dine in her home at minimum once a week--all of them together, and go to her for counsel about any major or even minor decision. He believes that this is not good for his kids, but this is their life--and some of the kids are around 40 or near it.

His sisters' adult children, have similar relationships with their parents.

I would be bereft if I spoke with my son only occasionally, even though that was how it was for some time.

But I see that the relationships that each of us forms with our children has everything to do with what these kids want, can maintain, and our ability to appropriately respond.

We are doing it, you guys. No matter how painful it may be. One of us said on this thread, or maybe more of us. We put into place, together with our kids, their efforts and wants, and dislikes, and limits and strengths--what we can and what will work. That is what we are doing, here. Painfully, sometimes.

 

[Nomad]

I have a migraine...will read later...am limited now.
First of all, I'm so sorry to read of this grief.
I just wish to mention that during the most difficult of times with our daughter, hubby and I saw a therapist. NOT due to marriage difficulties, but due to the stress and confusion regarding having a mentally ill child. I would think to handle something one way and he would think differently and vice a versa. One would be stressed out of his/her mind over an incident and one would be more or less ok. Sometimes both of us were drained and just needed to talk and talk and talk.
She (the therapist) was highly experienced and knew when to just listen. Knew when to offer her opinion. Knew how to help us hash out a plan.
That was years ago. It was INVALUABLE.
We never went long term. We would go to one, maybe two appointments. Then, we might not go again for six months. Then again, one possibly two appointments. I would guess we went three times a year.
We had not been for many many years.
Recently, we went through another incident and I mentioned it on another post.
I could tell my husband was unusually bothered by it.
I would say between the two of us, it is me who gets this way more often.
Anyway, I found a person very similar to the one from years ago.
We had already more or less hashed a plan before we got to her office on how we were going to handle the current mess.
But, getting it off our chest and hashing out a few thoughts and details made all the difference.
We don't need to go back....but who knows...maybe in six months we will.
It's just an idea.
We have, at times, found having a mentally ill child (now adult child) extraordinarily confusing, taxing and draining and quite frankly needed the help.
My heart goes out to you.
No easy answers.
Blessings.

 

[LoveSushi]

Detaching from a typical child is different. You still feel close and warm and proud. Detaching from a difficult child hurts more in my opinion and experience. Our memories of them are not the same...hard to explain. I'd still feel sad if my typical kids only called me once every few months though. I hear at least once a week, usually more.

This is true. My son and I have a warm and loving relationship; we talk once or twice a week, sometimes more, and I just feel normal maternal affection and love for him and pride in the outstanding job he's doing at adulting. I have to check myself more often than I should from offering unsolicited advice. He's doing great without it and he always knows he can ask me anything. He wants to take me to the beach town where I took he and his sister every summer when they were little, on the first weekend of December. I'm thinking it would be so magical to go there with my kids as adults....

My daughter, my difficult child...things are better, but they are different. Her mental illness has been diagnosed and being treated, trying to get the medication and dosage correct at this point. Our relationship is slowly rebuilding. But I do find myself much more cautious with her. Treading lightly. Still hopeful that it will keep getting better and better. She seems to be maturing and seeing things much differently than she did even a year ago. So much more to say, but I'm typing with one finger on my tablet and i hate it. LOL

 

[Nomad]

Recently we went through something with our Difficult Child and we had to use detachment skills. She was about to embark on something that very well could have left her homeless. Horrible, frightening judgment skills. It leaves you gut wrenched. I sometimes wonder if she has the ability to understand what she is doing in the moment she is doing it. I ask "would we allow our child to make these decisions if she were retarded?" And of course the answer would be "NO!" But, then I think to myself, I do believe somewhere in there, she does understand that she is making a poor choice. The closest I can compare this to is when I've been sick with a medical problem, have pain, on strong medication, gone into a depression...etc. During times like this, I will defer to my husband temporarily for any major decisions. It is a decent comparison, but not an ideal one. Because her very judgment is off. Sometimes, I can get her to defer to a very close childhood friend. Basically NEVER to my judgment. I can sometimes say to her "please call your friend X and ask her what she would recommend you do in this particular case." If she does that...this is wonderful....nine times out of ten she will listen to her friend. In this particular case, we bargained with her. She had many complaints, most were not particularly valid. BUT, one was somewhat logical. So, we concentrated on that one. We agreed to help her out with the complaint she had that made some sense and we agreed to do it IMMEDIATELY in exchange for her staying put. She was willing to give up a nice condo to move into a bad area with bad people with no money blah blah blah over nothing. We made her the offer and kept a detached, cool head doing it. It worked. Don't know if any of this applies, but it ended up working out for our situation.

 

[Copabanana]

hubby and I saw a therapist.

Nomad, while I admire (and envy) this course, it is not one I feel is available to me. M will not consider therapy and, if he did, we are quite limited because of language differences. Quite honestly, I do not have a lot of muscle left to reach out and take the risk to trust therapists, due to past experiences. But respect this course of action, in general.

Because her very judgment is off.

My son, too. But he displays this arrogance--without knowing or caring to learn about how things work, and what can be the consequences.

Today we had another disaster. An explanatory document arrived from my insurance (I had begged them to keep him as my dependent beyond the 26 year cut off. Because of his liver disease I wanted him to have insurance beyond the Medicaid that comes with his SSI).

Well. He uses emergency psychiatric hospitalizations in favor of homeless shelters or motels or hotels. When he needs a place to stay, (we have asked him to leave, for instance) he shows up at hospital x to say he is thinking of suicide, and thereby solves his housing needs on a temporary basis. This forces the insurance company to pay almost $6000 a pop.

At dispute right now are the bills he racked up when he was at the residential treatment center. I urged him prior: Make sure you confirm with the insurance company if you have coverage at x facility and if so what percentage they will cover, and what part you will have to pay.

Thousands and thousands of dollars of bills have been coming in. He is overwhelmed. I offer to assist him, and he rejects my counsel or support. He just says: I have handled everything. There are no more bills that I am responsible for.

In some of the cases, the insurance company sends me the check, which I am responsible to turn over to the hospital or other entity. That happened this morning. All he read was $15 copay and came into my room waving the statement like a flag to prove how virtuous he was and how well he handles his business.

I read it and saw there was a check to me, below: J. This is a check to me that needs to be turned over to the hospital (he was unaware that it was from a hospital nearly a year ago, and not from his recent travails.)

He replied: No it isn't. This is not a check to you. It just says I owe nothing. (I would guess my son has an IQ over 125 or 130, but is he stupid.)

He calls me a liar and renders everything I know to be true about a particular thing or life generally--invalid and in error. To him I already have Alzheimers. And that Is the only reality of things. He will use me and try to manipulate me, but the truth of things, to him is that I am without real value, and demented. That is how he acts.

I am re-thinking any involvement with him, what so ever.

M told him privately after this episode with the insurance statement: none of your words mean one thing to me. I do not believe what you say about anything. And don't think that your manipulations and your games work with me. They don't. Go about your business as you wish.

In other words, don't believe your shxt does not stink with me, because it does.

I guess M might be ready to detach.