Brokenhearted

[Hopeful97]

Leafy thank you for your kind words. I do not think the tears will ever stop. I do sort of feel like I am getting part of my life back and have mixed feelings, mostly guilt. My husband does not talk about it much but we are on the same page I believe. I know you know the pain is physical as well as mental right now. Thanks for your help and everyone else too.

The serenity prayer is very helpful.

 

[New Leaf]

Leafy thank you for your kind words. I do not think the tears will ever stop.

The tears will lessen in time Hopeful. You will go through degrees of sorrow. You will get through this. We owe it to our d cs to show them by our strength, how to be strong. We show them through our resilience, how to be resilient themselves. They may not like it, or understand it, but in time, they will.

I do sort of feel like I am getting part of my life back and have mixed feelings, mostly guilt.

Please do not linger in guilt for finding joy in your life, Hopeful. It does you no good, or your son. By thriving and living a joyful life, you are showing your son, his endless possibilities.

My husband does not talk about it much but we are on the same page I believe.

My hubs is very quiet and stoic, but I see him changing, and understanding we cannot help our d cs. They need to figure things out on their own.
We held on far to long to the notion that we could help them. Our d cs ended up despising us in spite of all we did, and all the while feeling they were entitled to help.

I think you and your husband have a much better chance at seeing your son become a man of his own, due to your resolve. Try to look at it as that. You are helping him more, by giving him his wings. It is true.

I know you know the pain is physical as well as mental right now.

Yes Hopeful it is mental and physical. It was hard to see my daughter in the condition she was in yesterday. But you know, today is a new day. I will get past this, and so will she. I am hoping she will see that she can be strong and stand up for herself. She most certainly would not, if I had caved and let her stay. That is quite impossible in the state she is in.

Thanks for your help and everyone else too.

You are welcome Hopeful, and thank you for sharing your story. Thank you to everyone for being here and helping.
(((HUGS)))
leafy

 

[Hopeful97]

Hopeful, my son's situation is similar to your son's...just a bit down the road.

My son is mentally ill. He started to act differently in his early 20s. I am a special education teacher and my 2 sisters are schizophrenic. I did not want to accept what I was seeing. He started to act differently and stopped going college or see his friends.

He ran off and lived in his car in a cold state north of us because I had gone into his flooded room when he was gone.

I went through a year of torture. I filed a missing persons report. I knew the state he was in because of his banking statement. I flew up there twice to try to find him. The police told him twice to call home. He said, "I know that I should, but I can't".

One year later, to the day, he returned. After that, I clung tightly and did too much for him. I paid for an apartment for a few months for him. He never charged the phone I got him. He never went to college or worked, like he had promised. He never saw friends or let us in the gated building.

I should have stopped the help completely. I let him move back home with no clear expectations in place. I was treating him with 'kid gloves'. I was afraid that he would run off again...

He slowly got worse, stayed in his room longer, and his behavior became increasingly violent. Emotional abuse turned into smashing things and stabbing my counters and cupboards. He destroyed 3 computer, a landline, a T.V., light fixtures, walls, doors, ceilings, floors, rugs, antiques, family heirlooms...

Would he be better today if I had kicked him out earlier? Probably.

But, I do believe that I did not HELP him in any way by allowing him to stay in my house until he had to be forceably removed by the police 5 months ago. He is 35. I had to file a restraining order. He both tried to kill me and argued with his voices about not wanting to kill me.

He lost time to try to get better while I allowed him to stay here with little rules. What little rules I had he broke and kept us in fear with his increasing violence. He was in control.

He also stole things and would smile and blatantly say, "Do you want me to help you find it?"

Did I help him by letting him stay here? No. I knew where he was...but at what cost? I am a single mother and became very afraid in my own house. My two younger sons slept with knives. They put a lock on my door and gave me mace. I found out later, that they were stalling starting their lives to stay home to keep their mother safe.

Hopeful, rest assured that you did the right thing..for everyone involved. I have been told by several therapists that NOW my son has a chance to get better. Living at home, shut away in his room, he had NO chance.

I was giving him negative reinforcement for his violence. I would tell him to go to the doctor. He smashed something...and I stopped asking... right then. This pattern repeated and repeated.

When someone who is mentally ill becomes violent, it is usually toward family members. You deserve peace and a safe home.

You did the right thing. You have shown love toward him by allowing him to get treatment and take control of his life. I am very proud of you. There are a lot of services out there to help the homeless. People find it much harder to say 'No' to several people at a shelter, than to one mother. He needs to comply to society's rules.

Theft, bad behavior, or emotional abuse will not be tolerated.

Hopeful, you have reason to be very 'hopeful'!

Thank you very much for your wise words. I kind of slipped, my son contacted my husba

 

[Hopeful97]

Thank you very much for your wise words. I kind of slipped, my son contacted my husba

Today it is cold and rainy. After I did some things for my son last week as mentioned above, I still do not know if he is still in our hometown or in another state. He tried contacting me a couple of times over the weekend asking for food or a ride and I told him "I am tapped out, sorry" and when he asked for a ride I told him he needed to stay where he was so he could be there when the family left and he could go with them like he was/is allegedly supposed to. He has not contacted me since. I am going to try not to answer his calls or if I can't take it anymore just answer and tell him the only other thing I can do for him is get him to a homeless shelter. Oh my gosh, I cry so hard and feel so so so very sad when I know think or say that my son is or maybe homeless, maybe in a shelter, maybe on the streets, maybe in jail. He is only 18 and this seems like it is getting harder. We could no longer live in the sort of prison our house became, all interior doors except his has bolt locks on them. Numerous numerous thefts, lies, threats, verbal abuse daily. I think about that and believe that we are doing the right thing. As I sit here and pour out my heart it continues to break. I know many of you said the pain eases but right now it feels like it is getting worse and never going to ease. I think of our older son and he is a pillar, he is such the opposite of my younger son. My older son has helped us more than he will ever know and he continues to do so. I believe my younger son was trying to creep his way back into the house because the weather is changing, but I do not know that for sure. There were tears before we made him leave, now there are even more tears and I did not think that would be possible. I am really trying to keep my head up but it is getting harder. You know the poem footprints in the sand, well God has been carrying me for a long time and I am grateful for my faith. I feel like I am getting more and more weighted down in pain (physical and mental). The weight is getting heavier, and I think it is going to get worse (although I do not know how it can). I am dreading Thanksgiving, which is usually a great time of family and friends. My son really stopped his education at 9th grade so he does not have an education to help him. I am sorry for rambling, I am hurting and it feels especially intense right now. Thank you for your support.

 

[Hopeful97]

Wow Childofmine! Well said. Powerful. Excellent words. you described exactly how I feel and what I have been going through with my 23 yr. old son.

The fear, panic attacks, not knowing... Pure torture. I feel like I have been in a cruel and abusive relationship. The addict is such a mean and hateful person. I never dreamed my son could be so cruel to his own mom. You described everything to a tee. Especially after you kick them out how you feel such intense fear, guilt, grief, shame and you obsess over wanting to know if they are OK. Nailed it - excellent post.

My son is at the "You are delusional, its all your fault" stage. No where near admitting he has a problem and wants help. I've got a long way to go and only thing that helps is prayer.

 

[Hopeful97]

Wow Childofmine! Well said. Powerful. Excellent words. you described exactly how I feel and what I have been going through with my 23 yr. old son.

The fear, panic attacks, not knowing... Pure torture. I feel like I have been in a cruel and abusive relationship. The addict is such a mean and hateful person. I never dreamed my son could be so cruel to his own mom. You described everything to a tee. Especially after you kick them out how you feel such intense fear, guilt, grief, shame and you obsess over wanting to know if they are OK. Nailed it - excellent post.

My son is at the "You are delusional, its all your fault" stage. No where near admitting he has a problem and wants help. I've got a long way to go and only thing that helps is prayer.

Sea Genie You are so right pure torture and I agree you never can believe how your own child can be so cruel it is very hard to understand I do not think I ever will.

 

[Hopeful97]

Hello Hopeful, there is a lot said in your name, Hopeful. Although we have no control over our d cs, there is always hope. I am sorry you have had to find your way here, it is a good place to be, lots of folks in similar situations with empathy and good advice. This is your journey, and your choice on what to do.
I have had a similar situation, minus the mental illness, but looking back, maybe depression. Now my d cs after years of using, do seem to have drug induced issues.
Hopeful, it seems to me that you and your hubs have tried everything to help.
What can we do as parents, when our help does not work, and the choices our d cs make invade the peace of our homes and our own souls?
I believe, you have done this Hopeful, you have done your very best to help, and you are seeing it hasn't helped your son and hurt you. You have given your son his responsibility, his wings. They all have them our d cs, these wings, and they work.

My d cs have been out for four months, but this after years of trying to help. I am glad you and your husband have figured this out sooner, rather than later.
It will make a world of difference for you and your son.


You have not lost your son, you have given him is responsibility, and you have gained yourselves.
That is precious, Hopeful, to gain yourself.
We were not meant to continue to sacrifice our lives, as our children cross the threshold to adulthood. That threshold is the beginning of their responsibility for their journey.
Ahhh, the questions. When our children become adults and are d cs, there are the questions. In our releasing them, there is an anguish, a despair. We are grieving. In the grieving process, there are different phases you will go through. If you are not already going to a counselor, I would urge you to try. Or Alanon, or something. These groups understand more than we do, what addiction is, and what it means for our adult children, as well as us. It is helpful to know what is happening, in order to deal with it.

Your oldest son is wise. I hope you find time to spend with him.
I have come to realize how much time we spent with our d cs, trying to figure things out, we had neglected ourselves, and our relationships with our other children.

Hopeful, please take deep, deep breaths. If you believe in a higher power, pray. It is very difficult to do anything when coming from deep hurt. I know how you feel, I have been there. But you will come out of this. It may not feel so now, but you will.

This is true Hopeful, we cannot help someone who does not want help. It is probably not even for us to do. Our adult children simply do not grow, when kept under our wings. They only resent us the more so, for trying to help.
I know the feeling of not knowing. It is okay Hopeful. Many folks are where you are. You are not alone. Try to change that perspective, that focus on not knowing, to understanding your son is on his own journey, and so you must focus on continuing yours.

Yes, happy times. Hold on to those memories. Try not to hold an image of your son as a child. He is an adult, and will choose as he wishes. It is not the right choices right now, but that may change. It is his choice and as parents of adult children, we have no control over their choices.



Yes, Hopeful, it is hard and heartbreaking. I find great solace in saying a prayer when my thoughts go to worry, for my two out there. Worry saps us of our energy, and does nothing to help them or us.
There are many agencies out there who can help. The words you have said to your son over and over, spoken from a stranger, might sound like something new. Perhaps your son is out there, and he will meet someone who will inspire him to walk a better path.
With you folks, as I am sure you already know, it would be the same ole, same ole.

I hope you are able to refocus your energies in to rebuilding yourselves up. We become empty after struggling with our d cs. It is important to take good care of yourself. You have value, Hopeful, and a bright future ahead of you. By being strong, we are showing our d cs the importance of self worth, self value. We are showing them while their choices hurt us, we will not let that break us.

Stay strong and please do take care Hopeful.
Take the time you need to grieve, but in that remember, you have not lost your son.
He is on a journey, and you can be hopeful that he finds his way.

(((HUGS)))

leafy

Leafy,

 

[Hopeful97]

Leafy,

 

[Hopeful97]

Thank you

 

[Childofmine]

Hopeful, it IS very hard when you set boundaries. It feels wrong. That is why we have to work very very hard to separate our feelings from our actions. For so long, many of us acted and reacted based on our feelings. If you stop and think about it...it was more about us than about them.

We couldn't NOT do it. After all, this is our precious precious, our very own child. How could we not try and try and try and try no matter how discouraging and how hard it was?

We did all we knew to do, and that was to keep on trying.

And then, after years went by, of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result (we have learned that is the definition of insanity, now), we started wondering. What is going on here? We are telling them and working so hard to get them to do the right things...but NOTHING HAS CHANGED/

In fact, in most cases, things keep on getting worse and worse. We become distraught.

That turns out to be a good day for them and for us. We get so sick and tired that we are ready to start working for change. And that change has to be in us, because we can't change them.

Helping doesn't help. If there is to be a change, something has to change, and that something must be us.

We finally start to see that...and then we start to set boundaries, like you are right now...and at the beginning and even for a long time after the beginning it is very very hard to live with. We are miserable and we are still scared.

Many times, we just give up and go back to our old ways with them...but again...nothing changes and perhaps we are ready to try again.

So...little by little...we gain the strength to set boundaries and stick to them most of the time. Not all the time, but most of the time.

It is perfectly okay and understandable to make mistakes...and fall back...and get back up again and try again.

We are only human, and this is the hardest stuff in the entire world.

That's where you are right now. It's time right now to start working hard on yourself if you haven't started already. You deserve good things. You deserve peace and joy and contentment and you need to start working to find that.

Are you going to Al-Anon? Are you reading books like Boundaries, Codependent No More and Al-Anon literature? Are you taking a walk, taking a nap, sitting quietly looking at nature, just being, just breathing. Prayer and meditation are very good practices for times like these. Take a nap when you can. Buy some flowers for the kitchen table. Write in a journal---pour out your feelings on paper or into a computer. Let it all out---it is very healing. Go to therapy if you can. Spend five minutes every morning writing a gratitude list.

All of these things are tools---I call them my toolbox. Using your tools---whatever tools work for you---every single day. block out the time in your calendar. This is the very work of change. This is the very work of healing and forward movement.

I did these things when my son was homeless and I didn't know where he was or what he was doing and I was scared to death. I did them every day and more and more, I felt better and better. He was still spiraling down but I was beginning to look forward and move up in my views of myself, my situation and the world.

You can do this. One step, one day at at time. And we are here for you, all the time, with support and encouragement.

Your feelings are real. The situation is real. Feeling your feelings is a must for healing.

Keep posting. We're here for you.

 

[New Leaf]

Hopeful, I am at work so cannot write too much.
Hang in there, it will get better. It is hard to see the rainbow for all the clouds, but it is there. Your son has a much better chance of finding himself and walking his path. I know it is difficult to imagine this when the weather is bad, it makes us awfullize even more. The truth is the sooner you put your foot down the better. Living as you were was not healthy for any of you, including your son. I know, I've been there. We had to lock everything up. We were prisoners in our own home. It was torture living with them, then the hardness of wondering came. Cry the tears you need to. It is important to release them. Say a prayer. Even short ones matter Hopeful.
I am sad for your sorrow, it is devastatingly difficult. There is always hope my dear, and by giving your son his responsibilities, you have made one giant step to him seeing the light. It does not seem so now. It is true.

My heart goes out to you.
Take deep deep breaths.
One step, one day at a time.
Gods peace,
(((Hugs)))
leafy

 

[Hopeful97]

Leafy and Child of mime thank you for your support.

I talked to him a couple of times after no contact for 2 months, help him out way beyond what I should. He starts calling and asking for stuff. I tell him no. He calls this morning I do not answer then he texts telling me his symptoms of his acid reflux saying he is hungry and asking me to bring him food. I tell him "I'm sorry, I can not." Then the insults threats and insults start. So I am taking no more calls or texts from him. I know it is going to be very hard but I have learned from you all that this is part of setting boundaries. I have to do this for me, for my mental and physical help and I guess for him too. I keep telling myself that he made these choices. This is hard, but I stopped contact for 2 months I can do it again I guess it'seems going to have to be for longer this time. It is obvious there has been no change and no desire for real change and real help. I started down the path that he (my son) does not have an education he is a drop out, but we did all we could - he got kicked out of 4 schools and 2 alternative learning programs. He has been having problems since he was about 9 and we got him help lots of ups and downs started to get really bad around 12 or 13 and thing just got worse and worse no matter what we did. I can not go back there. I'm sorry it seems as if I am turning to you all a lot, talking to you all really helps. I ordered the book Codependent No more and think I am going to try a newcomers meeting to Ala non. I also apologize if I am repeating myself . Thank you everyone for listening and giving my your feedback.

 

[Hopeful97]

Thanksgiving is going to be rough!

 

[New Leaf]

Hi Hopeful,I hope your day is going well, mine is just beginning, roosters crowing and cool dawns air wafts through my windows. I am glad you are still here with us and posting. I am sorry for your heartache. Truly sorry dear.

I talked to him a couple of times after no contact for 2 months, help him out way beyond what I should.

It is okay, we all go through this, we are all learning.

He starts calling and asking for stuff. I tell him no. He calls this morning I do not answer then he texts telling me his symptoms of his acid reflux saying he is hungry and asking me to bring him food. I tell him "I'm sorry, I can not."

This is hard, Hopeful, but you are doing the right thing.

Then the insults threats and insults start. So I am taking no more calls or texts from him. I know it is going to be very hard but I have learned from you all that this is part of setting boundaries.

Boundaries, important for them and us. This is disrespectful to you, first in the expectation of you to drop everything and bring him food, he is an adult and capable. There is help out there. I am pretty sure if you brought him food, he would have asked for other things, money, etc. Then come the insults, yes I have been there, too. Hold on to the insults, they will help to strengthen you.

I have to do this for me, for my mental and physical help and I guess for him too. I keep telling myself that he made these choices. This is hard, but I stopped contact for 2 months I can do it again I guess it'seems going to have to be for longer this time.

It is for him, too. It is for him to learn and grow, to stop depending on you and abusing you at the same time. Unacceptable, it is all so unacceptable. This is not how we raised our children, Hopeful.

It is obvious there has been no change and no desire for real change and real help.

Hold on to this thought, it is what helps me to be strong, because it is true. No change.
It does not mean it will not come, change. It means stepping out of the picture is all the more, imperative, for us, and them.

but we did all we could - he got kicked out of 4 schools and 2 alternative learning programs. He has been having problems since he was about 9 and we got him help lots of ups and downs started to get really bad around 12 or 13 and thing just got worse and worse no matter what we did.

You do not deserve the treatment you are receiving. Do not accept it.

I'm sorry it seems as if I am turning to you all a lot, talking to you all really helps.

Please do not ever apologize for posting and turning to this site. I find myself here a lot, too, it helps me process what I am going through. There will come a time when we will not need to be here so often, that is healing. So, Hopeful, I hope you continue to post and share, and vent. It is good for you, and others who are on similar paths, we know we are not alone in this.We learn, heal and grow from each other's stories.

I ordered the book Codependent No more and think I am going to try a newcomers meeting to Ala non

This is wonderful Hopeful.

I also apologize if I am repeating myself . Thank you everyone for listening and giving my your feedback.

Repeat away, it is helpful. No worries.

Thanksgiving is going to be rough!

Ahhh, the holidays. We are not the Norman Rockwell painting now, right? So, start new traditions, volunteer in a Church dinner, visit a nursing home, go to a park.
Do something different. We do not have to be that painting, we can make our own.

I pray for you for peace of mind. You are doing very well. It is not easy, so please take time to do good things for yourself. Rebuild yourself. You have been through many years of this, it is wearing.

Be good to yourself Hopeful, your life and your time matters.

(((HUGS)))
leafy

 

[InsaneCdn]

I'm sorry it seems as if I am turning to you all a lot, talking to you all really helps

That's what we all are here for - it helps that it's a forum, so we get here when we can, it's not like a phone call that interrupts supper
Keep talking. Sometimes it's the last finger-hold we have on sanity.

 

[Hopeful97]

My hubby and I arem'the exactly on the same page. As you know, my son has been gone almost 10 weeks and there was no contact with me for 2 months. He would still call my hubby and they would talk for a few minutes, sometimes my hubby would meet him somewhere for a few minites. The conversations were usually how are you doing, what are you doing, things like that. I totally understand because my hubaby is at a different spot in this journey of ours. We do agree that the way our son treat (s) (ed) me and sometimes hubby is wrong and not acceptable (it went on for to long) and our son can no longer come to the house that is not in stone but has to be for now and probably for a long while. I talked to and visited with my son a few day, the same old pattern started so I stopped answering calls. I have not talked to him since Friday. My hubby and older son have talked to him here and there. He is living in a house with I do not know how many people. Allegedly the electric and gas are shut off. I can't worry about that. We talked about Thanksgiving and our son. If he contacts us, we both feel we should take him a plate of food and possibly have him come to where we are having Thanksgiving. Really on the fence about this. Guilt really coming in because son is early high school dropout but on the other hand seems to be pretty resourceful.

 

[New Leaf]

This is tough, I know because it is the same for me. My hubs has a hard time, especially with my eldest, she was his favorite when the kids were little.
What happens is called triangulation. This means your son may try to use this to manipulate.
I do not think it is a bad thing to take food to your son on Thanksgiving, or consider him coming to where you are. This is your process and yours alone. You have to be able to look at yourself in the mirror.
Guilt does not help you. What does help is to review your posts, journals, memories of what has happened. Nobody knows what it is to be in your shoes. Having a disrespectful adult child in the home is unacceptable. He is young, but as you say, resourceful. He will learn much more from this than he would have if he stayed. He now has a chance to grow and become a responsible adult.
You are doing great. It does not feel good setting boundaries and letting go. It goes against our nurturing instinct.
I know how it feels to fight with this instinct but it feels way worse to have a sullen, disrespectful adult child living in our home.
Hang in there Hopeful and don't be so hard on yourself. The Holidays make things a bit tougher on all of us.
Take care
(((HUGS)))
leafy

 

[Hopeful97]

When my son failed to get me 3 times on my cell and once on the house phone he called my hubby and hubby texted him and son told hubby just wanted to say love u. I felt like I should maybe text him, but I reminded myself that he will probably ask for something (a ride, momey, food or who knows). My sis reminded me that he could have easily have texted same message to me and that he probably wanted something.

 

[Hopeful97]

This is tough, I know because it is the same for me. My hubs has a hard time, especially with my eldest, she was his favorite when the kids were little.
What happens is called triangulation. This means your son may try to use this to manipulate.
I do not think it is a bad thing to take food to your son on Thanksgiving, or consider him coming to where you are. This is your process and yours alone. You have to be able to look at yourself in the mirror.
Guilt does not help you. What does help is to review your posts, journals, memories of what has happened. Nobody knows what it is to be in your shoes. Having a disrespectful adult child in the home is unacceptable. He is young, but as you say, resourceful. He will learn much more from this than he would have if he stayed. He now has a chance to grow and become a responsible adult.
You are doing great. It does not feel good setting boundaries and letting go. It goes against our nurturing instinct.
I know how it feels to fight with this instinct but it feels way worse to have a sullen, disrespectful adult child living in our home.
Hang in there Hopeful and don't be so hard on yourself. The Holidays make things a bit tougher on all of us.
Take care
(((HUGS)))
leafy

Thank you Leafy, for your word, care and concern. You are right this is really hard setting boundaries.

 

[New Leaf]

I am glad you have a Sis to talk with. My two did the same to me. They would ask me for help, or to come home. I would cave, but guess who they were the most disrespectful to? Yup, me.
Bite the hand that feeds you.
The article in PE on Detachment is good, it describes a lot of behavioral patterns associated with us and d c's. It helps to see the role we play in it. I read and re-read it.
Keep your head up Hopeful. You are going to be okay. Keep posting, it is really helpful for you and also others who are on a similar journey. We all learn from each other.
leafy