Bump in the road...

Mattsmom277

Active Member
I cant claim how I would handle it, is necessarily how others might see it or do it. From my experience with s/o, I realized that (maybe it was just with him as an individual and not for all addicts attempting recovery, this is just my personal experience) I felt better and he was much relieved (if embarrassed) when I called a spade a spade. When he messed up, I didn't beat him with it over his head. But when the time was right, it was not pretended by me that I was not aware. My thinking was, we needed a relationship based on honesty. Also, part of addiction is hiding substance abuse and accountability. I also realized that punishing HIM wasn't helpful, he needed to be self reflective all on his own to be truly sober. He needed to all on his own realize this wasn't working for his life. What I COULD and DID do, was always use his "slips" to reinforce how I felt about the impact of his addiction on MY life, and enforce my boundaries, which grew stronger and broader with each "slip". For example, for something like your situation, how I would typically handle it back when I was dealing with this in early years of dating s/o? I would absolutely wait for your daughter to reach out to you, and not reach out to her first. I would then not be berating, but also would NOT behave as though I wasn't aware. If your daughter reaches out and brings up her relapse first, that is a positive step for her. If she reaches out but does not bring up her relapse herself, that gives you a opportunity to bring up her addictive behavior of pretending the addiction didn't take precedent again. Either way, I would ensure it was addressed. The message would basically be the same, regardless of who brings it up. But it would be first thing that was up for discussion, not debatable or negotiable. "I am aware of your relapse, which is why I waited for you to reach out to me instead of getting in touch with you first. I was using this time to decide if I needed once again to redefine MY boundaries in terms of your addiction and its impact on my life. While it is completely up to you to use this slip as a stepping stone to realizing your own triggers and how to better avoid them to maintain sobriety, it is up to me to ensure that I insulate myself and our family from the effects that your relapse has on us. So I have done that. I have decided that getting back to actively working your program to avoid relapse is the top of the priority list for you. The top of my priority list is loving you while not enabling you. I also need to practice letting you work with addiction specialists to address relapses. I support your efforts and encourage you in every way obviously. At the same time, I must put limits on physical support. I will continue to pay your weekly cost for your program. I will no longer provide extras such as clothing, (insert whatever applies). So long as you are sober at the time and working a program, I will not allow this relapse to ruin our family holidays and I hope that you can and will join us and enjoy the holidays. You should know however, that I will not allow you to participate if you aren't sober, and I must also let you know in advance that I will not allow participation if you are actively using in the future, even if you remain sober during our celebrations. It would still mean you are actively using." I would then make it clear that your support is unwaivering. And that does not mean that it is wrong for you to place these boundaries. And that if you ever must draw that line because she actively uses again, it does not constitute lack of support for her, it simply implies refusal to engage in addict behavior and acts.
I think you are doing a wonderful job, and I think that addicts are all different in how they respond. I can't say if this works for others. I know it worked for me. I did spend 9-10 months without a word of contact with s/o when he stopped trying to be sober and was actively using. My message was clear, I support you and DO believe in you. However returning to active drinking meant, for me, an end to relationship as normal. I made it clear I was absolutely here for him if he got truly sober, but eventually the "relapses" came to close together and active efforts to be a sober man went to the wayside. So during random, few and far between one night relapses, I followed the advice I posted above for you. When relapses became relapse (singular, ongoing), I opted out. My heart didn't. But my life did. And I know its different with a child rather than a spouse. I can say though, that I truly believe that with addicts actively engaging their addictions, I strongly believe there comes a point that it may have to be all or nothing. Sometimes it takes baby steps to get there. But I really believe bottom often comes from losing so much that an addict wants back what they have sacrificed for their addiction substance of choice. I also never feed into the naysayers who believe it is too harsh to deny family contact for holidays etc.
In terms of your daughter, I really am glad she went back. And perhaps her lack of contact with you since returning has been shame. It could also largely be because she needs to focus on her own issues, and not those of others right now. And that isn't wrong at all. Frankly, I believe addicts have to get it right with themselves for the most part, before doing much worrying about how they have hurt their relationships. In the end, its better for her and for you if she reaches out after she has had time to analyze herself and her relapse. Although addiction hurts a entire family, I really believe that addicts can't be focused initially on effects on others, that their efforts must focus on one step at a time, beginning with themselves. Just as rehab works best when one chooses it for themselves, I also believe true recovery often begins when a person can learn to love themselves enough to put their own needs first. For your daughter right now, she may be doing just that as she tries to put this relapse in perspective and find a steadier path in her sobriety. If that is the case, this is a blessing. It is obvious she loves you and needs you and wants a healthy relationship. I really believe she is going to achieve sobriety and get to a point where she is healthy enough to begin repairing damage her addiction inflicted upon her loved ones. While she is working on her needs right now, I see you doing everything you can to work on yours. It is hard to let go completely of participating, but she is in a supportive place with trained persons to help guide her path right now. You are facilitating that by paying for it and supporting her decision to participate. That really is enough. Now focus on your needs. You want your daughter for the holidays. I don't see it being needed to worry about involving her for the holiday considering she is working her program right now. Of course I would advise otherwise if she was actively using come the holiday, in which case I'd merely send caring and understanding hugs about how hard it is to set that needed line in the sand for yourself. But right now, I don't see involving her for holidays as a bad thing at all. She has an addiction. She is also a daughter and currently working to maintain sobriety. What a major change from not so long ago!!!! I hope you all enjoy each other for your holiday. (sorry I got so long winded, this just got away from me as I started typing)
 
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PatriotsGirl

Guest
I really, really appreciate your response!! I fully plan on including her if she is still there - I was excited and looking forward to it. But if she leaves treatment between now and then, I am rescinding the invitation. If she leaves, it means she is active in her addiction and I will need to remove myself. I can no longer watch her kill herself and it is just too hard on me to see her that way. She told me that is why she stayed away for so long - to save me from having to see her. I am thinking the reason she has not reached out is shame. She has talked to others, just not me.

You are so right. I cannot pretend that I don't know. She does need to be accountable and honest. But I will not beat her up over it, I need to just reinforce my boundaries. Especially now that my health depends on it.

Thank you!!!!
 
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toughlovin

Guest
I think Mattsmom gave you really good advice, and advice i will also have to remember. What I have come to is to keep the door open to the relationship but stay clear about your own boundaries. So at some point I probably would text her something to let her know I was there and thinking about her.... but I wouldnt extend any invitations until I had a better handle on what was going on.

Would the sober house call you and let you know if she left? I would think they would especially if you are paying the bill. When my difficult child left or was kicked out of place after place I always got a call letting me know... which of course made it easy because then he knew I knew.

TL
 
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PatriotsGirl

Guest
I think Mattsmom gave you really good advice, and advice i will also have to remember. What I have come to is to keep the door open to the relationship but stay clear about your own boundaries. So at some point I probably would text her something to let her know I was there and thinking about her.... but I wouldnt extend any invitations until I had a better handle on what was going on.

Would the sober house call you and let you know if she left? I would think they would especially if you are paying the bill. When my difficult child left or was kicked out of place after place I always got a call letting me know... which of course made it easy because then he knew I knew.

TL

You would think...but when she was put on a 48 hour ban, I only knew when difficult child told me the next morning and the only reason I knew to ask difficult child was because I saw on the phone records that she was calling people after midnight. That didn't happen the whole time she had been there so I knew something was up. I then texted the program director and asked her what happened and she then texted me the consequences and why. She also said at the time that she knew difficult child was not going to use. That she knew in her heart that difficult child was done with meth. Hmpf. She had no where to go and doesn't know anyone other than other addicts. I think I would have been shocked if she didn't relapse. :(
 

SuZir

Well-Known Member
My difficult child has had just a couple slips till now. They were quite early in his recovery and fortunately they were short and he got back to the track. He was also taught that relapses were part of the recovery and you just have to analyze them and learn from them and get back in track as quickly as possible. I know there may well be new, longer relapses for him in future, but now that he hasn't had slips in year and a half, I'm quite happy how we handled them. I don't know if it's a best way, but it was a way I'm able to live with without regrets - at least for now.

We didn't in fact react much. Of course I felt horrible, was very afraid he would be going back to active addiction etc. But I really did my best not to show that to him. He was early in his recovery, very young and fragile, it would had not been fair to saddle him with my feelings and fears, he had enough to deal with his own. I did tell him I was sorry he had slipped and that he did know that doing those kind of choices would cost him dearly, if he continued to do so. But more than that I did congratulate him on getting back to working his program, letting them be just slips and making right choices again. That I was proud of those good choices. He was beating himself up enough over his relapses by himself, he didn't need my disappointment to deal with too. And after all, it was my disappointment, my fear, my feelings, not his.
 
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PatriotsGirl

Guest
My difficult child has had just a couple slips till now. They were quite early in his recovery and fortunately they were short and he got back to the track. He was also taught that relapses were part of the recovery and you just have to analyze them and learn from them and get back in track as quickly as possible. I know there may well be new, longer relapses for him in future, but not that he hasn't had slips in year and a half, I'm quite happy how we handled them. I don't know if it's a best way, but it was a way I'm able to live with without regrets - at least for now.

We didn't in fact react much. Of course I felt horrible, was very afraid he would be going back to active addiction etc. But I really did my best not to show that to him. He was early in his recovery, very young and fragile, it would had not been fair to saddle him with my feelings and fears, he had enough to deal with his own. I did tell him I was sorry he had slipped and that he did know that doing those kind of choices would cost him dearly, if he continued to do so. But more than that I did congratulate him on getting back to working his program, letting them be just slips and making right choices again. That I was proud of those good choices. He was beating himself up enough over his relapses by himself, he didn't need my disappointment to deal with too. And after all, it was my disappointment, my fear, my feelings, not his.

Another awesome post - thank you!!!
 
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PatriotsGirl

Guest
I texted the director just to check how she is doing and she responded that difficult child is still there and doing better every day. Hopefully, it was indeed, a little bump...thanks everyone!!
 

Tiredof33

Active Member
Sadly, I know of an addict in recovery for 10 years and relapsed. Like others have said, it just seems to be part of the process. I think the fact that she is still there shows that she is trying to take responsibilty for her actions. GOOD FOR HER!!!

Years ago we went out after work for something to celebrate, one of the ladies was trying to stop drinking. I would not have called her an alcoholic, but she did pass out in a bathroom at a friend's party.

Most of the group kept urging her to have a drink saying just one won't hurt you. Well, she got drunk! It is amazing to me that she even went to the bar if she wasn't going to drink - and these were her friends getting her drunk!

I was another that had a very difficult time with cigarettes, and I had to completely stay away from my smoking friends. It was so hard for me, I dreamed about smoking, and just smelling the smoke would start cravings. I was very addicted and for at least one year or more I was not sure if I could stop, today I am not tempted at all.

Take care of yourself, in my opinion she's trying really hard. It IS hard!
 

Mattsmom277

Active Member
I am glad my response helped you affirm your own mind in some fashion. This truly is a place where sometimes our responses, being personal, can be hit or miss. So when one resonates from sharing my own experiences, it makes me extra glad for sharing my personal perspective. I do hope that she keeps it together and you two can enjoy the holiday. And all in all, if she doesn't rush off to slip again, this truly is the definition of "bump on the road" and need not discount or disqualify pride in herself for working hard and making progress towards a healthier, sober, life. I do believe she wants this. That isn't to say she will fly through the process of recovery easily. But she's back there, and I'm glad you are able to see past this relapse and see the encouraging news that she returned and is for today, working at it. I'm glad you have the back of plan, just in case. Now you can leave it there as just that back of your mind knowledge of how to respond "if". But meanwhile, that you can be excited to share your holiday table with her is a great thing. She's still the pre addiction daughter you love and miss. I hope she's happy at your table this year. Enjoy! If she knows about the board, tell her this board auntie is rooting for her and truly believes in her.
 
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PatriotsGirl

Guest
Well, bad news.....just checked the phone records and difficult child was on the phone all night. What was especially concerning is that she was on the phone when she should have been in a meeting. Meetings are at 8pm. She was on the phone. She was on the phone at 1am, 2am, 3am and 6am. I am thinking she left again. So I texted her and she comes out with this BS story that she was discharged for 72 hours because she didn't go job hunting yesterday. Yeah. Okay. She claims she will be going to outside meetings. Yeah, okay. She claims I can drug test her if I don't believe her. Yeah, okay. I told her I was asking for a refund for the days she was not there. That is two days last week and three this week now so I figure that is 105 bucks coming back to me. She got upset asking if that means she can't go back and I told her I would support her if she is IN recovery and right now, she is not in recovery. I don't believe a single word that comes out of her mouth. Sorry, I don't. I told her if she gets her butt back there, I will pay the fee. No more clothes, extra food, shoes - nothing. She will need to get a job and provide for herself. I told her if she is discharged ONE MORE time, I am done paying whether she goes back or not. I feel like I took a pile of cash and just set it on fire. I am so angry and disappointed right now.
 

AnnieO

Shooting from the Hip
:hugs:

Good for you... And awful for you, too. I don't understand the rationale behind their thinking... But then... Addicts can rationalize anything.

HUGE HUGS for you, sweetheart.
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry PG, I really really am. This is exactly what my difficult child did, left the sober house and found another that would let her come and go as she pleased and did not require meeting attendance. Claimed she was going to meetings on her own....bull****. I too did not believe a word that came out of her mouth and was right. We get our hopes up so high over and over again and we see them making progress and see what their potential is and then it all falls apart.

I hope she pulss it together somehow and gets back there, if they will accept her. I find it hard to believe they discharged her for 72 hours. I've never known them to do that around here, they either discharge you completely or not but they don't throw you out on the street for a few days. They may have told her she can come back in 72 hours and ask to be readmitted and they will make a determination at that time.

Time to start detaching again and taking care of yourself.
 
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PatriotsGirl

Guest
Yeah, this is the second discharge in less than two weeks. The program director said she has to issue the same consequences to everyone - so I guess her consequences are tossing them out to the street?? I am really not happy. I texted the director this morning and have yet to hear back from her. I am paying the bill, I should be notified when she is discharged!!

Nancy, that is exactly it. My hopes were so high. I finally saw my real daughter and it was such a joy, such a blessing, that I am mourning all over again. :(
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
The director in difficult child's sober house told us when she was admitted that they do not notify anyone if they leave and there would be no refund and that whatever personal items she left there would be divided up along other residents after 48 hours. I never understand why but I guess they feel that they are adults or else they come and go so quickly that they can't keep up with it.

Do you have any idea where she is? Do you see why I am so fed up with being surrounded by addicts? Both of our difficult children know where to go for help and they chose not to so why are we making ourselves sick over it. I finally got tired of beginning the grieving process all over again.
 
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PatriotsGirl

Guest
She called me. She explained what happened with her relapse and that she called the program director right after she did it and said she messed up bad, that she felt horrible and that it reminded her why she never wants to do it ever again. I did see that call on the phone records. I found it odd at the time that she was calling her around 3am. She said she is going back on Thursday and has a job interview that morning at Boston Market. She said she is clean, fishing during her break and is enjoying herself - sober.

Well, it is certainly everything I wanted to hear...I know the interview is real (checked phone records...lol). I almost want her to stay here to ensure she doesn't relapse again but not sure how husband would feel about that. He is out of town until tomorrow evening or Thursday evening. He still does not even know she relapsed. I am sure he thinks something is up, though. I used to ramble non-stop and report good news to him daily. I haven't said a word since I brought her back...

Sure hope they let her back in the program...
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
I do too PG and I don't have to tell you this but take what she says with a grain of salt and a great deal of skepticism. I have seen that often when they have these mini relapses and they tell us exactly what we want to hear that it means they are torn about recovery and are not committing themselves to the program. I don't say this to take away your hope, just guard your heart and if possible pull back a little. They go into recovery and start feeling better about themselves and start thinking that they aren't as bad as they or everyone else thought. They forget the bad times quickly.

I'm crossing all body parts that she does goes back and recommits herself.
 
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toughlovin

Guest
Oh PG I am so sorry you are going through this.... I have been through this several times as you know. So I doubt you will get a refund.... I think most places do not give a refund if people leave or break the rules. Most sober houses do have strict rules and will kick you out if they break them.... and although it feels awful to us it is a matter of making the residents live with the consequences of their actions. I hope she is really ready to go back this time.

I know with my son I think he always intended to do better, but then some part of him just figured he would get better at getting around the rules and would not get caught.

I wonder if you can ask the director if she goes back if they can let you know specifically if she leaves? That seems reasonable to me, since you are paying the bill.

TL
 
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PatriotsGirl

Guest
Thank you so much ladies for being here for me. I honestly don't know what I would do without this board to keep me grounded.

I am so very skeptic of anything she says and I told her she must understand why. Still haven't heard from the director but difficult child told me that the director was dealing with some personal issues with her son, so that could explain it. At this point, I just want to know if she is allowed back. I do have to go into the office tomorrow which is not far from the sober house. I told her I can pick her up on my way in and drop her off at her interview. She will need to wait a few hours for the interview but that is not my problem. Then she will have to go from the interview to the house and sit on the steps until she is allowed to go back in. Should be a humbling day for her. :)

As much as I didn't want to, I had to check the phone records this morning. She was off the phone by 11pm. Fingers crossed she meant what she said and absolutely hated the feeling when she relapsed. But, a drug test upon her return should tell all...
 

Kathy813

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I'm so sorry, PG. I hate to say it but it sounds like she has relapsed and is playing you. I can't think of one single good reason anyone would be on the phone all night. I hope with all of my heart that I am wrong and she will be allowed to return and get back on track.

It seems like you should be able to talk to the director and get the truth since you are the one paying for the sober house.

Of course, in my difficult child's case, she was playing the director of the sober house, too.

{{{Hugs}}}

~Kathy
 
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