Marguerite
Active Member
I considered adding to my previous "Bureaucracy rant" but it had fallen too far back (page 3, as I type this) to resurrect.
Time for an update. It will also help me put my thoughts in order as I type my complaint letter.
difficult child 1 has been receiving disability since he turned 16. He is now 24. Besides paying a pension, this also entitles him to certain other benefits including some health insurance bonuses (cheaper medications, cheaper or free doctor visits and tests) and assistance in other areas such as one free college course a year, fee-free bank accounts, discounts on car registration etc. I was also receiving a Carer Payment for a while. In Australia ALL welfare payments, including some which just about every Aussie family gets, is administered through a huge government organisation called Centrelink.
When a person in receipt of a pension gets a job, Centrelink has to be notified within two weeks. The aim is to prevent over-payment of pension because they WILL come after you for the money, they will get it back in blood if they must. difficult child 3 has officially authorised me to negotiate with Centrelink on his behalf (which involves passwords, code numbers, reference numbers and personal security information before you can even talk to a person).
So when difficult child 3 got a job at the beginning of the year, I made sure that Centrelink were notified, fast. I rang them to let them know he was working, but I didn't have his pay slips for final detailed information. As it happened difficult child 1 was able to make a personal visit one afternoon (fifteen minutes before closing time) and showed them his pay slips so they could log his hours, his pay rate, his starting date and contact details of the employer.
A couple of weeks later he was doing some online banking with husband, and noticed that his pension was still being paid, even though he was drawing a wage. I rang Centrelink the next day to request that payment of his pension be suspended.
Two weeks later, he had lost his job (he was good at washing cars; not so good at parking them without damaging them. They liked him but couldn't afford to keep paying for the repairs).
So I rang Centrelink again to get his pension payment recommenced. Because he had been overpaid, he had to pay back the amount overpaid. It was calculated, seemed a bit larger than we expected but we figured that it was only fair to pay back every cent that was overpaid.
Flash forward - three months later, while still trying to get him an apprenticeship, I managed to get him a foot in the door with a furniture company. They said they couldn't afford to give an apprenticeship to someone his age. I asked if he could just spend a few days at their company, unpaid, just trying out the sort of work they did to see if difficult child 1 was on the right path. Given the prospect of unpaid labour, they jumped at it.
As I hoped, they liked him and offered him a job (as labourer). A week's trial to begin with.
Good. I waited for a pay slip, but none arrived so although we had no info, I rang Centrelink to at least let them know he had a job. Again.
Centrelink of course wanted details on when he started, what his hours were, how much he was earning. And who he was working for. I didn't have the info but they at least logged that they had been notified. I did tell them he was working close to full-time.
Over the next few weeks there were still no pay slips from his work. I wasn't even sure if he was being paid. I told him to ask; he said he did, and was told the accounts person was on long service leave and he would get pay slips when they returned.
Meanwhile I had discovered that when a disability pensioner gets an apprenticeship, the government subsidises his salary very generously. In other words, for probably less than they were paying difficult child 1 as a labourer, the company could employ him as an apprentice and give him a leg up the employment ladder. The people to organise it would have to be the disability employment service who difficult child 1 had been seeing for two years or more.
A big catch - his pension would have to be current, although suspended payment would be OK. With a new job, pension should be current for the next 12 months.
The disability agency were working on things, but because it had been such a long time for difficult child 1 on their books without a job, he had to reapply. This meant getting paperwork filled in by his specialist and getting a Job Capacity Assessment (JCA) done at Centrelink.
difficult child 1's first RDO (rostered day off) came up. He gets one a month. He used it to get his new-old car serviced, plus I drove him to the disability agency to see his caseworker (who was helping get him listed back with them, so they could then try to get the apprenticeship possibility ironed out). His disability caseworker took him to Centrelink to lodge paperwork. The doctor's report was lodged (already had been) and the Centrelink staffer then said they would have to organise a JCA.
difficult child 1 asked why, since he was working, would he need to do a test to see if he could work. He didn't want to jeopardise his new job by asking for time off to do a test that didn't seem necessary. In fact, difficult child 1 was thinking the whole process wasn't necessary and he should maybe chuck the whole thing since he had a job and no longer needed his pension.
I understand the logic - it seems the right thing to do.
End result of that meeting - the disability caseworker said they'd work at the agency to find another way, so difficult child 1 wouldn't have to take time off work for something so unnecessary. The Centrelink staffer seemed to not "get" that difficult child 1 was unwilling to attend a JCA because he was unable to take time off work to do so.
Also, outcome of that meeting - difficult child 1 had discovered that his pension was still being paid, 3 weeks after I had requested it to be suspended. I rang them the next day to AGAIN ask for payment to be suspended, on the grounds that he was working. And no, we still didn't have the details we needed, I could only give them a rough estimate. Surely that would be enough for now? No, they said.
A week later I spoke to the boss at the disability agency - Centrelink had agreed to do a JCA over the phone for difficult child 1, it was happening as we spoke. After that it would be a matter of days and difficult child 1 would be back on their books and they could then get his apprenticeship set up. They could also get the pay slip info (still not forthcoming from the employer).
Then difficult child 1 got the letter from Centrelink - "your pension has been cancelled due to your failure to report. Tear up your concession card and do not apply for any pensioner-related benefits" sort of thing.
difficult child 1 was angry - "But I was there last week!" Then, "I don't need them anyway. I've got a job now, I can look after myself from here."
I pointed out, "Without your pension being current, you can't get your apprenticeship subsidy."
Phone calls have flown back and forth. I became more and more irate as I dealt with Catch 22 circular logic. The cancellation was because we still had not been able to give those vital employment details EXACTLY. A rough idea was just not enough. In vain I pleaded that difficult child 1 was now being penalised for his employer's failures. They said difficult child 1 should get the info. I said that his extreme anxiety meant that he just couldn't, which meant that Centrelink's obstinacy was punishing difficult child 1 because of his disability. This is discriminatory.
I took my complaint to our government representative who finally was able to kick enough rear ends. There were other hassles happening too - I won't go into detail here - which frankly are actionable in a big way. It did include, though, the doctor's report going missing and no record, either, of the JCA that difficult child 1 did over the phone.
Tuesday last week, I got an extremely apologetic phone call from a senior staffer at Centrelink. All was fixed. difficult child 1's pension was reinstated (but not payment, of course). He was once again a client of the disability agency. But we had to get that info within two weeks, at which point the computer would again flag difficult child 1's file. I then rang the disability agency to organise it.
Flash forward again to today. Incoming mail. A big bundle from Centrelink. A letter dated 17 June saying his pension had been reinstated. Another (undated), with a new pension card. A third (undated), with a request for a report from his treating specialist. Then a letter dated 18 June, the image of the earlier one which caused the upset - "your pension has been cancelled for failure to report." And another, demanding payment of excess pension paid (due to their failure to stop payment when I had requested).
I rang. Again. And amazingly got someone helpful. HOwever, each time I ring I get told stuff which is contradictory. This person today was the sole voice of reason in the months I've been calling them. He said that the estimate I gave back at the beginning of May should have been enough to prevent all these hassles, all the threats of fine and prosecution, all the cancellations etc. He was going to make some enquiries and call me back.
While I waited, I called the disability agency to keep them informed. Then I called the local government rep, requesting more read ends be kicked.
It took me weeks of phone calls, tears, blood pressure crises and rages to get things fixed - and they stayed fixed for a day, even though we had been promised two weeks.
Without his pension (even suspended), we can't get the apprenticeship. I was just about to send off the new prescriptions for the kids' medications, but the pharmacy MUST have the pension card details as well. But every time they send him a new pension card, they tell him to tear it up by following letter!
I am still waiting for people to call me back. I'm getting increasingly vocal about my threats to go to the media.
I've also found (last Tuesday) that whenever he's been overpaid by Centrelink (generally due to Centrelink's refusal to suspend payment, even after we've asked and given them the employment details) that he is getting charged 10% routinely, as "punishment" for allowing the overpayment to happen!
To say I'm furious is a major understatement. And I am calm, compared to difficult child 1.
He had another RDO today (which means it's a month since he last visited Centrelink's office). He used it to get his car registration and insurance renewed for the year. But although he was home, there was no way that he could handle any of the phone calls associated with these hassles.
So here I sit, surrounded by an increasingly large pile of paper detailing the idiocy of the system, wondering if there is any chance we can get an apprenticeship for this lad in time for HIS WEDDING IN NOVEMBER!!!
I am also drafting a letter appealing the payment of every amount of money he has given Centrelink to allegedly repay overpayment. I want it all audited and checked, and any amount over the basic $ amount refunded to difficult child 1. He should not have to pay a 10% fine on top of paying back money that was sent to him AFTER he requested payment to be suspended due to his income change.
Tell me - is it only Australia that gets it this badly wrong? And how, with a country's population of only about 20 million, can a bureaucracy build up that is so complicated despite its purpose being to help the disabled?
Marg
Time for an update. It will also help me put my thoughts in order as I type my complaint letter.
difficult child 1 has been receiving disability since he turned 16. He is now 24. Besides paying a pension, this also entitles him to certain other benefits including some health insurance bonuses (cheaper medications, cheaper or free doctor visits and tests) and assistance in other areas such as one free college course a year, fee-free bank accounts, discounts on car registration etc. I was also receiving a Carer Payment for a while. In Australia ALL welfare payments, including some which just about every Aussie family gets, is administered through a huge government organisation called Centrelink.
When a person in receipt of a pension gets a job, Centrelink has to be notified within two weeks. The aim is to prevent over-payment of pension because they WILL come after you for the money, they will get it back in blood if they must. difficult child 3 has officially authorised me to negotiate with Centrelink on his behalf (which involves passwords, code numbers, reference numbers and personal security information before you can even talk to a person).
So when difficult child 3 got a job at the beginning of the year, I made sure that Centrelink were notified, fast. I rang them to let them know he was working, but I didn't have his pay slips for final detailed information. As it happened difficult child 1 was able to make a personal visit one afternoon (fifteen minutes before closing time) and showed them his pay slips so they could log his hours, his pay rate, his starting date and contact details of the employer.
A couple of weeks later he was doing some online banking with husband, and noticed that his pension was still being paid, even though he was drawing a wage. I rang Centrelink the next day to request that payment of his pension be suspended.
Two weeks later, he had lost his job (he was good at washing cars; not so good at parking them without damaging them. They liked him but couldn't afford to keep paying for the repairs).
So I rang Centrelink again to get his pension payment recommenced. Because he had been overpaid, he had to pay back the amount overpaid. It was calculated, seemed a bit larger than we expected but we figured that it was only fair to pay back every cent that was overpaid.
Flash forward - three months later, while still trying to get him an apprenticeship, I managed to get him a foot in the door with a furniture company. They said they couldn't afford to give an apprenticeship to someone his age. I asked if he could just spend a few days at their company, unpaid, just trying out the sort of work they did to see if difficult child 1 was on the right path. Given the prospect of unpaid labour, they jumped at it.
As I hoped, they liked him and offered him a job (as labourer). A week's trial to begin with.
Good. I waited for a pay slip, but none arrived so although we had no info, I rang Centrelink to at least let them know he had a job. Again.
Centrelink of course wanted details on when he started, what his hours were, how much he was earning. And who he was working for. I didn't have the info but they at least logged that they had been notified. I did tell them he was working close to full-time.
Over the next few weeks there were still no pay slips from his work. I wasn't even sure if he was being paid. I told him to ask; he said he did, and was told the accounts person was on long service leave and he would get pay slips when they returned.
Meanwhile I had discovered that when a disability pensioner gets an apprenticeship, the government subsidises his salary very generously. In other words, for probably less than they were paying difficult child 1 as a labourer, the company could employ him as an apprentice and give him a leg up the employment ladder. The people to organise it would have to be the disability employment service who difficult child 1 had been seeing for two years or more.
A big catch - his pension would have to be current, although suspended payment would be OK. With a new job, pension should be current for the next 12 months.
The disability agency were working on things, but because it had been such a long time for difficult child 1 on their books without a job, he had to reapply. This meant getting paperwork filled in by his specialist and getting a Job Capacity Assessment (JCA) done at Centrelink.
difficult child 1's first RDO (rostered day off) came up. He gets one a month. He used it to get his new-old car serviced, plus I drove him to the disability agency to see his caseworker (who was helping get him listed back with them, so they could then try to get the apprenticeship possibility ironed out). His disability caseworker took him to Centrelink to lodge paperwork. The doctor's report was lodged (already had been) and the Centrelink staffer then said they would have to organise a JCA.
difficult child 1 asked why, since he was working, would he need to do a test to see if he could work. He didn't want to jeopardise his new job by asking for time off to do a test that didn't seem necessary. In fact, difficult child 1 was thinking the whole process wasn't necessary and he should maybe chuck the whole thing since he had a job and no longer needed his pension.
I understand the logic - it seems the right thing to do.
End result of that meeting - the disability caseworker said they'd work at the agency to find another way, so difficult child 1 wouldn't have to take time off work for something so unnecessary. The Centrelink staffer seemed to not "get" that difficult child 1 was unwilling to attend a JCA because he was unable to take time off work to do so.
Also, outcome of that meeting - difficult child 1 had discovered that his pension was still being paid, 3 weeks after I had requested it to be suspended. I rang them the next day to AGAIN ask for payment to be suspended, on the grounds that he was working. And no, we still didn't have the details we needed, I could only give them a rough estimate. Surely that would be enough for now? No, they said.
A week later I spoke to the boss at the disability agency - Centrelink had agreed to do a JCA over the phone for difficult child 1, it was happening as we spoke. After that it would be a matter of days and difficult child 1 would be back on their books and they could then get his apprenticeship set up. They could also get the pay slip info (still not forthcoming from the employer).
Then difficult child 1 got the letter from Centrelink - "your pension has been cancelled due to your failure to report. Tear up your concession card and do not apply for any pensioner-related benefits" sort of thing.
difficult child 1 was angry - "But I was there last week!" Then, "I don't need them anyway. I've got a job now, I can look after myself from here."
I pointed out, "Without your pension being current, you can't get your apprenticeship subsidy."
Phone calls have flown back and forth. I became more and more irate as I dealt with Catch 22 circular logic. The cancellation was because we still had not been able to give those vital employment details EXACTLY. A rough idea was just not enough. In vain I pleaded that difficult child 1 was now being penalised for his employer's failures. They said difficult child 1 should get the info. I said that his extreme anxiety meant that he just couldn't, which meant that Centrelink's obstinacy was punishing difficult child 1 because of his disability. This is discriminatory.
I took my complaint to our government representative who finally was able to kick enough rear ends. There were other hassles happening too - I won't go into detail here - which frankly are actionable in a big way. It did include, though, the doctor's report going missing and no record, either, of the JCA that difficult child 1 did over the phone.
Tuesday last week, I got an extremely apologetic phone call from a senior staffer at Centrelink. All was fixed. difficult child 1's pension was reinstated (but not payment, of course). He was once again a client of the disability agency. But we had to get that info within two weeks, at which point the computer would again flag difficult child 1's file. I then rang the disability agency to organise it.
Flash forward again to today. Incoming mail. A big bundle from Centrelink. A letter dated 17 June saying his pension had been reinstated. Another (undated), with a new pension card. A third (undated), with a request for a report from his treating specialist. Then a letter dated 18 June, the image of the earlier one which caused the upset - "your pension has been cancelled for failure to report." And another, demanding payment of excess pension paid (due to their failure to stop payment when I had requested).
I rang. Again. And amazingly got someone helpful. HOwever, each time I ring I get told stuff which is contradictory. This person today was the sole voice of reason in the months I've been calling them. He said that the estimate I gave back at the beginning of May should have been enough to prevent all these hassles, all the threats of fine and prosecution, all the cancellations etc. He was going to make some enquiries and call me back.
While I waited, I called the disability agency to keep them informed. Then I called the local government rep, requesting more read ends be kicked.
It took me weeks of phone calls, tears, blood pressure crises and rages to get things fixed - and they stayed fixed for a day, even though we had been promised two weeks.
Without his pension (even suspended), we can't get the apprenticeship. I was just about to send off the new prescriptions for the kids' medications, but the pharmacy MUST have the pension card details as well. But every time they send him a new pension card, they tell him to tear it up by following letter!
I am still waiting for people to call me back. I'm getting increasingly vocal about my threats to go to the media.
I've also found (last Tuesday) that whenever he's been overpaid by Centrelink (generally due to Centrelink's refusal to suspend payment, even after we've asked and given them the employment details) that he is getting charged 10% routinely, as "punishment" for allowing the overpayment to happen!
To say I'm furious is a major understatement. And I am calm, compared to difficult child 1.
He had another RDO today (which means it's a month since he last visited Centrelink's office). He used it to get his car registration and insurance renewed for the year. But although he was home, there was no way that he could handle any of the phone calls associated with these hassles.
So here I sit, surrounded by an increasingly large pile of paper detailing the idiocy of the system, wondering if there is any chance we can get an apprenticeship for this lad in time for HIS WEDDING IN NOVEMBER!!!
I am also drafting a letter appealing the payment of every amount of money he has given Centrelink to allegedly repay overpayment. I want it all audited and checked, and any amount over the basic $ amount refunded to difficult child 1. He should not have to pay a 10% fine on top of paying back money that was sent to him AFTER he requested payment to be suspended due to his income change.
Tell me - is it only Australia that gets it this badly wrong? And how, with a country's population of only about 20 million, can a bureaucracy build up that is so complicated despite its purpose being to help the disabled?
Marg