Call him out?

[Shari]

I need some outside perspective, ladies, on another husband thing. Counselor said to call him out on stuff - is this worthy of calling out, or just nitpicking?

I do most of the laundry and usually put it away. Sometimes, I won't get it done before he goes to bed, and he'll put his stuff away. Tonight, that's what he did.

Due to our small house, some clothing items go on a shelf on the wall above the dresser. There's a basket for his socks, another for his underwear, a basket for my socks and underwear. Then my tshirts are folded and stacked on the shelf (I knew it would never work for his, cause he rakes thru them - his shirts are in a drawer). And his work jeans are folded on the shelf. Lately, he has started just wadding the stuff up and sticking it up there. WHile it looks unsightly, I really don't care - until I have to put laundry away, and you can't stack 5 pairs of jeans on top of a tumbling pile and expect them to stay. And if I leave it for him to deal with, he'll just put them somewhere else - like on my sewing table.

Tonight, he had 3 tshirts and undies to put away, and he just wadded them up and put them all on top of his undies basket because the raked-thru shirt drawer will no longer accomodate anything else without cramming (and yes, if they are folded, all shirts will fit easily into the drawer).

So, while I can continue to throw undies on the pile without it toppling, its just time before I can't. So, do I say something now, and call him out, or am I nitpicking at this point, and need to just let it be?

(And I can't stress enough how much of a NON NEAT FREAK I am...my house is just so dang small you have to use space wisely, or you'll get swallowed up in stuff - my mixing bowls only have to nest cause I only have room for 2 if they don't!!! Otherwise, I wouldn't care! - also why when he didn't "nest" things this winter when he did dishes, he didn't have room to put things away so he just started piling stuff on the table, chairs, and eventually, the floor.)

 

[1905]

I'm right there with ya, but I do nothing. I put husband's shirts away all nicely folded in his drawer. It doesn't matter that I do that, the next time I open the drawer everythings completely wadded up. So, when I put things in there, I'm just putting them on top of wadded up clothes. I could waste my time re-folding, I could demand he fold them (but he wouldn't, and I don't need the aggravation), so..I just leave it. I do wonder why I fold them in the first place. If your husband is just going to keep his stuff like that, it's not worth having him fix it since he'll just do the same thing the next day. Let it roll off your back. If he wants it like that, well...he's got it.

 

[confuzzled]

slightly nitpicky.

but no less annoying.

i think i'd pass on the call out, but i'd run to the store and get two bigger baskets to match the undies/sock ones and let him have a basket full of rumpled t-shirts and a ball of jeans. then you can still stack the folded on top of the basket--you'll have the rim to hold it all in, Know what I mean??

if you feel the need to say something, i think i'd wait until a non-laundry day and explain/show exactly what you want...some people need explicit directions and modelling. if i had to guess, its wayyyy less important to him than you, and he doesnt see your perspective that it just makes it harder for the next time if you dont do it right the first go round. but i dont think i'd be confrontational over it-he did, after all, put away his laundry :-D

 

[AnnieO]

I've heard you can tell someone to do something, or tell them how to do it - but not both.

in my opinion? I like the bigger basket idea, but if he's anything like my husband, it will be 2 days till it's overflowing.

What are the odds of putting his other stuff in another drawer and your jeans on the shelf...?

husband and I are lucky - we have two dressers. Mine? Has the TV, DVR, DVD on it. His? Has an overflowing pile of papers, change and other "stuff". (Some is migrating to mine, too.)

ATDT - Am There, Doing That...

 

[Shari]

And it makes no difference that we've already been down the road of it doesn't fit in it's space anymore so I'll just stack it on her sewing table/sewing machine? This isn't an aesthetic problem. Bigger baskets would work but I'd have to move the shelves. That's why I left his shirts in the drawer in the first place...I knew he'd never leve them such thy stacked on a shelf would be an option...
I'm noticing something else in our relationship, too. The more I find ways to 'work around' his habits, the more habits he develops to work around....the shelves and baskets were a solution to another problem...it's worked for a couple years...and now here we are.
And it is more important to me than him, because, well, did you see the pics of his moms house I posted? He gripes and complains about her place all the time, but quite honestly, if it's up to him, ours will look just the same. Our barns and sheds already do, and when I was laid up...well, there's still stuff stacked in the floor along the walls in the kitchen, and at one point, it was along every available inch of wall space - all stuff that fits in the cabinets if you take the time to do it.

 

[AnnieO]

If he's developing workarounds to your workarounds... It might be passive aggressive.

Correct me if I am wrong but... Doesn't it seem like Two Brooms wears the pants? And has cowed her son his entire life? So he picks a strong woman (you, dear), but one who is not overbearing... And then he rebels - not against Two Brooms, because she still holds the strings - but against you.

 

[Hound dog]

Since it's a space issue.........

I'd say something but make sure to preface it with hon, this is a space issue, not me just trying to pick on the way you do things.

I say that because before we moved into this house we were in a teeny one bedrm that had been "converted" into a 3 bedrm....and no it really didn't work well and you felt like you were climbing over each other. Space was a HUGE issue and I had no choice but to be picky or we'd be drowning in stuff. And if clothes started falling on the floor ect.......I started having to re wash things and that just ticked me off. Wasn't the appearance that bugged me.

My husband who is a class A slob, was able to get it that way without being offended. He wasn't perfect after that but it was like 80 percent better.

 

[Star*]

Well......I live with a farmboy gone biker/batchelor for 30 years. If there is a bigger oinker? I'm all ears. Our 'deal' on moving into the house was this - Find a place that resembled the farm (so he could have junk) and now I'm guessing any number of single wide trailers -cabin houses (cause ......long exhales) looks at his man-getter he has to have a place just for him -the he-man woman hater club house (aka den). But the rest of the house? Well that's the 'Oh don't you dare think about putting that hammer down there - you know where it goes and it AIN'T there." is my territory. That includes closet, dresser - and our house is ALSO smalll. I think 1297 sf. SO....we made an arrangement that if it couldn't be hung, or put in the chefferobe, folded or on a shelf neatly? I'd just toss it. And I have - and he's gone to the trash can and said "WTH?" and I said - well you are not going to wad up stuff - it makes ME nuts and I'm nuts enough already - and our deal was yadda yadda yadda - so either fix the closet so if I am gracious and put your clothes away I can and not play a veritable game of Jenga - or Im going to toss the junk that falls out."

Problem solved - and he agreed - he's a pig....and it's not like he's so busy that he didn't have time to fix it---he just didn't WANT to----and he didn't really know HOW to organize ----which is PHOOEY - because he can organize TOOLS - and parts ----so he didn't get the almighty pass on socks underwear, and the rest - I gave him boxes - and he tossed out stuff - I gave the size OMG are you serious you will NEVER get back in those - 32's again - lets be real about this----Mr. I eat cookies after midnight with a gallon of milk and you are just kidding yourself about the diet......so put the freaking pants in a box and make room for your big man pants. Which also .....prompted him to loose weight. Sometimes you have to be just blunt - (not hurt feelings) but blunt to make them see that those Levis - are within reach - but maybe it will take 2 years - and you'll get him some NEW ones ---or he can pack them up and put them in the SHED....and make room for the 38's NOW.

And besides - I had to throw out all my plastic and terracotta pots for his motorcycle parts...I remember him saying something like I wasn't going to use them anyway - after all I really didn't do so much gardening like I used to (I remember thinking at the time did he mean since I gained so much weight??? But he would never say it like THAT......so what goes around? comes around.

But yea - maybe it's time to purge the closet and donate some things....

 

[Shari]

I went to the shelves because dressers weren't working. The only space I have in either of the dressers now is the small drawer on the top of the chest of drawers. And in those drawers are all of my shorts, tank tops, swim suits, sweat pants, etc. Kinda oddball stuff - all crammed in there. The 4 other big drawers are his. The other chest of drawers is completely full of stuff. Not a single article of clothing anymore. Shells, old cell phones and chargers, papers, fishing stuff. Another 5 drawer chest completely full of stuff that mostly doesn't even belong in the house. When easy child 1 and difficult child 1 moved out, I knocked out a wall to make 1 room bigger for cgfg, and rebuilt that wall into a small walk-in closet for him to store all of his gun supplies in. Its chock full of everything, too, and not just gun supplies. Just....junk.

While he can be very passive aggressive, Step, I don't think that's what he's doing here. I think he's that lazy. One quick example of another solution/override, he'd come in the door and throw his outer wear on the floor. Ok, fine. When you have 5 people in a 1000 sq ft house, and they all throw their outwear on the floor, gets to be an issue. Plus, husband has 10 or 15 coats and 3 or 4 pair of coveralls, so he won't wear what's on the ground. So I put up a closet rod on the porch (that is not in a closet) to hang coats on, but that was too much work. So I bought brass coat hooks and hung them every 2 ft around the perimeter of the porch, one up high, and one lower. How hard is it to stick a coat on a hook on the wall, and I made them available.

I just went and counted and without moving anything, I come up with 23. I just cleaned up the porch this weekend, so this isn't "typical" but his stuff is on 18 of them. His chaps are hung on one, arrows on a couple, fishing stuff on one, a bag of deer hunting stuff on one, good coats that he wore out to dinner one time this winter are on 3 or 4, you get the gist. SO the hooks were filled up, and this weekend I hung up 2 pair of carharts and 3 coats and 2 sweatshirts that were - tada! on the floor in a pile, because "we're out of hooks".

He even filled the decorative shelves on the walls with "stuff". There was a bottle of liquid rubber coating on one of them for 3 years. I finally took down the decorative shelves, cause I got tired of fighting with "stuff" on them. The top of the 2 dressers are 12-20" deep, each. I see a bag of turnip seed, deer lure, 3 old cell phone chargers, water toys he bought in tx last summer, a broken belt, a box that contains a sticker for his truck I bought him at least 6 years ago that now contains the sticker and I don't know what all else....and that's what I can see from across the room.

Like Hound, its not an aesthetic issue. This house is tiny. We have one tiny closet. I don't even store blankets in the house anymore in attempts to make usable room for "stuff". But I'm drowning in ****! I have taken off 3 days recently just to purge and try to catch up in the house, and I am making no headway at all. None. With 3 solid days dedicated to nothing else, 3 days that I worked my tail to the ground, had to have vicodin to sleep work...and I still haven't even gotten all the **** in the kitchen off the floor.

 

[ML]

We have similar space issues and husband is what I lovingly refer to as my borderline horder. And difficult child lacks the putting stuff away skills too (and I can't help but wonder if it's part of the Executive Functioning stuff). If husband and I have one recurring argument it is the one he sees as the "why can't she leave my stuff alone" that I see as "why can't he put/throw his stuff away" and frantically throw in drawers and open spaces when people come to visit. I am also a neat freak. I cannot stand disorder in my environment or it too makes me nuttier than I already am. Which is pretty darn nutty lol.

I would point it out in a very nonconfronting way but personally, I've done that and done the "gone bezerk" route too and we still have the same problem.

I am encouraged by the fact that he is trying to at least put his stuff away. Ideally it would be nice to see him put everyone's away but not if he's going to do the wad and throw method. Keep up the good work Shari.

 

[Shari]

Starbie, I'd be throwing away my own ****, cause he's every bit as likely to haul my stuff around as his. Remember the beer in the yard problem from years past? (he doesn't want to put the beer away from his cooler, so he lets it sit in the cooler til he wants the cooler again, then just dumps it wherever he happens to be in the yard...?) Well...he did that again already this year....his cooler is laying in the yard with leftover beer falling out of it. He used easy child 1's cooler next, now he's nabbed mine. He has no respect for boundaries (but is quick to let you know if you don't respect his)

 

[AnnieO]

...Sigh...

Does it make you feel any better to know that I almost tripped on a circular saw this morning? It was in the middle of the 18" path through the garage. You know, the one I'm supposed to park in...

 

[Star*]

Well - that? WOULD NOT HAPPEN - because I'm a MAJOR boundary person. I used to be an "Oh it's okay use my whatever - I don't care....I'm a Mom, it's fine -----" person.

Then it got to the point with Dude, his friends, and everyone that ALL my stuff was being used - all the time. So THEN? When I would say something about it? You'd think I was a witch...and it came out like I was a major control freak or "THATS MINE' THATS MINE - NO THAT"S MINE - and NEVER SHARED. I mean even I got to the point where I couldn't stand to hear me say "THAT's MINE." lol

So in therapy I came out and said - HOW do you get people to stop using your stuff without coming across as a witch? And that's when I learned about boundaries. Boundaries about space, time, the words NO I CANT, No I won't NO I don't want to, NO I DO NOT LIKE THAT, NO YOU? Can do that yourself while I sit here because I've done my work - and not feel guilty, NO I will not do that for you. DO NOT TAKE MINE you have used yours. If you want one - USE YOURS. I mean it isn't what you say it's learning HOW you say it. (Effective communication) and that part of it is AWESOME - It takes time.

As far as the coolers? Mine would be locked up. The next time he needed beer and a cooler? he'd HAVE to clean his up. And as far as cleaning it up? Oh boy - would that last more than a day? Noooooooo. Beer in the yard is a HUGE peeve of mine. Shooting bottles with a Henry? Now THAT? Is a lot of FUN! But you have to have a horse, and a Golden boy - Know what I mean??

 

[Star*]

That saw would have been in the trash can. RIGHT on top with the pig tail hanging out - where husband could see it and when he came to me and said - "Did you throw this away? I would have said .....ummmmmNooooooooo I just put it where YOU wouldn't trip over it. BECAUSE I LOVE YOU."

 

[Shari]

I seem to be good at boundaries with everyone but the man i'm married to, and I don't know if its that I'm that bad at them, or if its just that he absolutely refuses to abide by any but the brooms'. If he borrows something of theirs? OMG the world will stop turning if its not back on time or sooner. But the booms he took without asking easy child (and the booms easy child usually keeps locked up because of husband - but didn't have locked up because easy child doesn't LIVE HERE ANYMORE, he was here visiting and his truck was in the driveway!!! OMG) are still rolling around in the back of MY truck cause he never bothered to return them. Its never ending.
I'm really thinking this is a problem beyond anything I can tackle. When I get him to do something in one place, he just lets another go to hell. And he doesn't care. He had the gonads to call easy child 1 yesterday and tell him that he didn't park the trailer right when he borrowed it last week. He didn't put the plug in the right place, and he didn't lock the hitch down with the pin in it. OMG, really? You have just left his booms in the back of my truck for 3 weeks in the rain, and you're griping at him cause he didn't place the plug thru the spare tire, and he left the hitch open with the pin in it, instead of locked down with the pin in it?
Unless I'm willing to just giive up and live like the brooms, I'm not sure this is a winnable situation. I have dedicated to myself, that since the accident and the investment of a trainer for my horse, come hell or high water I WILL ride that horse 3 days a week every week. I owe that to myself. And I have been doing it. But, he lost the pasture close to the house, and I'm really fighting resentment for that now, too. I either have to keep my horse in the dry lot and hay him every day, or I have to go to the back 40 to find him, because thanks to husband and the brooms, we lost the pasture that is outside my window and its now leased to the neighbors. But its no skin off his back.
Oh, and step, the outbuildings....don't feel alone. One entire stall in the barn is full of "stuff". The 2 bay shed here you can barely fit the lawnmower in. The one-bay shed has the buggy in it, but that's all that will fit, and that's with precision parking. His folks have a 4 bay garage that you can't park a 4wheeler in....and one bay is "his"

 

[DaisyFace]

Shari--

I'm not sure this is an issue that would be 'solved' by calling him on it.

I think the best you can probably do is come up with a system that won't bother YOU so much.

Maybe ditch the shelves and get some under-the-bed containers for husband's clothing? Out of sight - out of mind.

Or create some more space by putting off-season clothing in a box in the garage.

Something whereby you don't have to look at the mess day after day after day....

 

[Hound dog]

The beer in the cooler......I would be furious for 2 reasons. 1. Beer is expensive 2. he wasted it I'd throw it out, but he'd know I was NOT happy about it.

I used to be like Star too........oh sure, no problem, you can borrow..........Now I'm also one that says Hands Off that's MINE! Similar reasons. lol

Like you, I spent like 2 days killing myself to clean just the kitchen alone. I have to tackle that room before moving beyond that point. Unfortunately it's frigging HUGE and takes an eternity when you have 2 males to trash it. I was so proud. And this accident happened with easy child and I've spent the majority of my time over there.............And again it's totally trashed. Looks like I never touched it. Cleaning doesn't bother me. Cleaning only to find it suddenly trashed again after nearly killing yourself to clean it.........can make me need a padded room. Worse yet, I have NO time for such cleaning right now. I don't even have time for pick up type cleaning. So it's just getting worse. Heaven forbid husband realize that I'm overwhelmed and pitch in and CLEAN something. omg

At that old teeny house I got so fed up that the trash man became my best friend. I tossed stuff left and right every chance I got to get it out, sneak it out, whatever. I had yard sales too for stuff that I could do that with. But the bulk went into the trash.

husband is a hoarder. His parents were hoarders, ok......his dad was, mom not so much. I've had to admit husband is because now that he's not working I can't get him to part with even broken we're never gonna use it again stuff. I forgot I used to trash that stuff when he was working........even if it meant finding a apartment dumpster to haul it to so he wouldn't see it.

So now I have to start all over again. I can't even think about it until 4 wks. I hate to think of the condition of the house by then. And when I do..........I'm gonna go into full blown mean *ss warrior mom mode and this sh!t is gonna MOVE! I can't stand it no more. omg

If getting rid of it won't work........try a different organizing approach.

Hugs

 

[AnnieO]

That saw would have been in the trash can. RIGHT on top with the pig tail hanging out - where husband could see it and when he came to me and said - "Did you throw this away? I would have said .....ummmmmNooooooooo I just put it where YOU wouldn't trip over it. BECAUSE I LOVE YOU."

I can't pick it up... So it gets to stay, for now.

I have bigger issues.

*****

Shari, I'm going to be bluntly honest with you. I don't know how long you are planning on trying to get through to your husband, but I'm not seeing true improvement in what you've been telling us... What I am seeing is a total lack of effort on his part. He's just moving from spot to spot. Every now and then there is a spark of hope - the reason you married him will shine through - but maybe not often enough.

Just my $0.02.

 

[AnnieO]

get some under-the-bed containers for husband's clothing? Out of sight - out of mind.

We have 3 of these in my closet.

They're for husband's & my winter stuff. My winter stuff is all hung up, though. So he can use these...

They're empty. His winter stuff is in a pile on the shelf. And I don't mean a neatly folded pile. Part of it has fallen on the floor. But - his side of the closet!!!

 

[Shari]

I'm there, step. Right there with you. I'm not sure I can do this, and I dang sure don't want to live in a space like his parents (which is what he will be if left unchecked). I don't want another failed marriage, but whether it's public knowledge or not, it's not exactly successful at this point. But im trying to do what counselor said... Just not sure if I do it now or wait til it's actually a problem. Hound the beer pisses me off to no end. It's another mess to clean up, and it's way expensive. I accounted for about $100 in beer in the yard last summer. And it makes me feel used because I work so hard to do things myself to save money so I can do other things I want to do. Which he benefits from, too.