Can a Speech Impediment get you an IEP?

Discussion in 'Special Ed 101' started by totoro, Oct 18, 2007.

  1. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    Well I just found out that one of the reccomendations for K was speech 2x a week... she has toungue thrust and a Sigmatism (Lisp) slight. Can this help qualify her for an IEP? She is the one that is "doing great in school".

    She has some scattering on her IQ results also, but all above average, but one of the largest spans is 40 points between her Verbal Immediate Index and her Attention/Concentration Index
    Her subtest Scatter on her WPPSI-III is only 6 points.

    In Understanding Girls with ADHD they suggest- If a girl with a very high IQ functions in the average or even high average range in school, she can still be said to be significantly impacted by her ADHD because her potential is so much higher than her performance.

    Has anyone's school actually agreed to this, with High IQ???

    I am kind of thinking aloud here... trying to think of some things that we can push for... we would like her to be tested in a less chaotic setting... also.

    Any ideas? Thanks
  2. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    Oooh! I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for someone to answer this one, too.

    Tink stutters. Only sometimes, but when she does, it is very noticeable.
  3. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    I have found a lot of stuff regarding delay of speech, but nothing on this?

    BBK-They are evaling N though (the SD) because of full sentance stutter... I don't know if this has a medical name??? As well as Sensory Integration Disorder (SID), I don't know what services she will get if any... N's stutter comes out when she is nervous or anxious.
  4. Sheila

    Sheila Moderator

    It's a plus anytime a school district evaluation recognizes a problem. It's even better when the report recommends therapy for the problem.

    Speech-language therapy is a "related service" under IDEA/IEP and Section 504.

    Unless the test instruments are based on hugely different measurements, a 40 point spread seems significant.
  5. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    totoro, the sentence stutter that my difficult child was doing was due to language processing problems. He had some pragmatic issues as well and started with a speech/language label.
  6. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    Thanks SRL I figured you would have some insight I remebered your difficult child had/has some speech issues that he has been helped for. Thank you

    Her huge deviation of points are from the Children's Memory Scale (CMS) a standard measure of immediate,delayed,recognition, and working memory.

    Average scores were 100

    This was from the Neuro-psychiatric:

    Visual Immediate Memory Index 122
    Visual Delayed Memory Index 118
    Verbal Immediate Memory Index 143
    Verbal Delayed Memory Index 128
    General Memory 138
    Attention/Concentration Index 103
    Learning Index 134
    Delayed Recognition 118

    He said that her span of deviation is seen in only 2% of children her age...he said it is highly uncommon, I believe for "easy child" kids.
    I just don't know how to measure success if she is doing great already? I know she is distracted... hmmm

    We are also looking at the fact that she needs to hug the boy next to her about every 15 minutes... to help center, calm and help her focus. While I am glad she has a friend I realize this is not appropriate for the future or if he decides he doesn't want a hug... she needs help with an alternative...
  7. Sharon1974

    Sharon1974 New Member

    When my son was in K he had an IEP due to speech problems. It continued through first grade. When he was released from speech they switched him to a 504 plan. I am not sure what the law is though.
  8. Martie

    Martie Moderator

    I HATE to amend Sheila who is almost always right....

    However, the S/L lobby was very afraid in the 1970s that if a full evaluation were needed to get speech and language services, then they would be "made obsolete" because most speech ONLY issues (as opposed to Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD) issues) go away with or without therapy in NON neurologically involved children.

    SOOO...Speech is the only service that is a primary as well as a related service. What this means in effect, is that the evaluation for speech services can be limited to S/L issues only, if no other disabilities are suspected, and there is a much lower standard for "negative educational impact," because it is assumed that it is undesirable to lisp or have systematic sound substitutions (articulation problems) beyond preschool or KDG. They seem to KNOW that speech anomalies have a negative educational and social impact if children continue to have them into middle childhood.

    I have ended up writing about easy child twice recently on the topic of her early S/L problems: She received an abbreviated evaluation from the SD and received preschool S/L services only from the SD. I refused any other services/evaluations from the SD because I had her evaluated continuously at Northwestern University S/L Clinic. The SD did not resist serving her despite no evidence of any Learning Disability (LD) or EBD problems (she read at 5 but was not hyperlexic) and actually did have a Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD)--but I let the SD work on her articulation (which was poor at 3) because they had no idea what to do about Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD)---sad but common. Perhaps things have improved in the last 20 years in regard to schools working with Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD).

    Anyway, your above average child should qualify for S/L based on the evaluation of that area alone. If you suspect an Learning Disability (LD) based on the scatter (which is statistically significant,) then a FULL evaluation would be required for services. However, I would look for problems with performance not test scores as a basis for making such a request. I use test scores to bolster a claim of Learning Disability (LD) when there is a performance problem--but especially with no scatter on the WPPSI, I would not trust a test score alone to make the case right now.

  9. PollyParent

    PollyParent New Member

    I'm not sure what you mean by "full sentence stutter", but I have heard the term "cluttering" assigned to this type of speech:

    "My Mom asked me, asked me, asked me, asked me, asked me to go to the store to get bread."

    My son does that fairly frequently when he's anxious. Also, both Ritalin and adderal caused that to happen more often. I only ever heard the Director of Special Education call it "cluttering". I don't remember what the psychiatrist called it.

  10. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    My 3yo has not been assessed for this yet so I only know what I hear and as I don't know much about speech issues... well that was the only way I could explain it to the SD...LOL
    I had asked about cluttering and they of course act like I am crazy... I have heard that term but wasn't sure what it meant? I guess I could google it...

    Anyway she "has" to repeat the whole or various parts of a sentance when stressed or anxious...

    "Mommy can we go to the, mommy can we go to the, mommy can we go to the , mommy can we go to the hot cocoa store, mommy can we go to the, can we go to the hot cocoa store?"

    Like that... not nagging, but it has to be repeated and is a stutter, until she can say it, correctly? Or get it all out?
  11. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    Hmm. Wonder if Tink has a prayer.

    She has your typical stutter.

    "We we we we saw the dinosaurs, a-a-a-a-and they were th-th-th-th-THIS BIG!"

    She knows she does it. She gets angry at herself, and she says she "hates her voice". I feel so bad for her.

    Of course, her father goes from either telling her to slow down and think about what she is trying to say, to telling her to spit it out.

    He makes me nauseous.
  12. Martie

    Martie Moderator


    Full word or part of sentence repetition is "normal." We all do it and young kids do it a lot. It can also be a habit that occurs when one is thinking about what to say. Generally, it goes away without Tx if it is the only problem the child has.

    Sound repetition, "MMMMMy mmmother is cccoming to ppick me up," (also called 'hard' stuttering or 'atypical' stuttering) is much more serious, and usually occurs at the beginning of a word but can occur in the medial position as well. Some children have certain sounds that they stutter on....obviously this is not an articulation problem because the repeated sound is usually crystal clear; other times it seems random and any initial sound can be repeated.

    All types of stuttering increase under conditions of anxiety or frustration.

    Here is what I was advised to do for a child who had a moderate/severe expressive Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD) language disorder and had all three problems but no other concomitant disorders:

    Ignore whole word repetitions (cluttering) as though they did not happen.

    Ask for clarification of mis-articulations so severe that intelligibility is compromised (we are talking about a 3 year old who said "cawa" for potato--"tato" would have been OK.) Then model the correct form and DROP IT--do not ask for repetition.

    Interrupt sound repetition (hard stuttering) very pleasantly and say what the child is trying to say for her/him.

    I might be reluctant to relate these suggestions because they are so "old." However Northwester S/L Clinic is absolutely cutting edge for stuttering and therefore, I believe that the above has not been superseded by any other research-based practice. I reached this conclusion based on a conversation with easy child's primary therapist in 2003--she told me diagnosis was improved a lot since 1987, but recommendations to parents and teachers for abnormal repetitions was essentially the same.

    Best to you,


  13. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat


    Let me make sure I understand what you are saying.

    Tinkerbell has a hard stutter. I should say her word for her when she does that?
  14. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    I think so
    So for N I am supposed to act like it doesn't happen, which is what we do. If we try to help her she gets worse... But for us I am not so worried about her cluttering, but her anxiety...

    I believe yes... if you can't understand her have her repeat it and if she is stuttering hard, say it for her? That is what I read... maybe this helps trigger it in her mind and the stopping and saying it again after hearing you say it helps... All in a pleasant tone!

    I am sure she might get ticked a few times...if she is anything like mine. can't hurt to try. Tell her it is therapy...

    Good luck. Have you started the assessment proccess at school or are you??? Does she "need" it? It sounds like she can get speech help?
  15. Martie

    Martie Moderator


    I'm sorry I missed your question.

    The reason I was given for interrupting hard stuttering is that it is often accompanied by increasing tension and extra movements (grimacing, hand movements) that are more difficult to get rid of if they are established. I thought of it as interrupting the hard stutter rather than uninterrupting the child--and I tried to be VERY pleasant.

    The biggest problem that caused emotional reactions in easy child were her word finding difficulties (which I didn't mention above because I was talking about stuttering and cluttering.) easy child would access the right word class, but could not think of the right word. This upset her a lot sometimes. I would supply the correct word for her and just keep on moving (easy child also talked rapidly--so it was easy to move on without comment.) An example of what I mean is while wrapping a package at age 6, easy child would want the word "ribbon," but she would think of the word "string." She knew it was wrong, but techniques that are SUPPOSED to help children with word finding difficulties really made her angry, so I just supplied the word and ignored any reaction--"I think you mean ribbon," if she was reacting--if she didn't care, I would never correct "string." When easy child developed a large reading vocabulary in first grade, most of her word finding difficulties disappeared. I do not know why, but Northwestern S/L Clinic hypothesized that easy child was accessing the correct word through a visual image of it. Made as much sense to me as any explanation because easy child read by sight and was/is generally very visual. On the bright side, she is about 95% compensated and only has WF problems when she is tired (or has had more than one drink)--LOL--she is over 21.

    All of this is very individual to the child but if you have a child with hard stuttering, I would want therapy ASAP because hard stuttering is not easy to correct in older children, adolescents and adults.

  16. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    Thank you so much for getting back to me, Martie.

    Well, Tink has what you are calling a hard stutter, as opposed to cluttering. She says "Th th th this weekend I I I I get to go to my daddy's".

    But she always knows the word she is looking for, and her vocabulary is phenominal. She just stutters, but only sometimes, and it seems to ebb and flow. Of course, the problem I keep getting is that nobody wants to take the time to deal with it because "oh, lots of kids stutter, she will grow out of it".

  17. Martie

    Martie Moderator


    If this persists past age 7, I would not take "no" for an answer. Seven is the "magic" age for S/L problems that are going to go away without Tx to do so.

  18. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    Thank you Martie. You have a great weekend!
  19. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    Wynter's cluttering didn't start until the 2nd grade. To my untrained ear, it sounded like stuttering. However, she was really repeating parts of word and/or whole words and phrases. At times, she does get stuck on just the beginning of a word, especially 'sh' or 'st' sounds. In addition, she talks super fast...almost twice the number of words per minute as normal. The higher her emotional state, whether anxious, excited, angry...whatever...the more cluttering going on. Sometimes it's difficult to understand her.

    The speech therapist at the school was trying to not allow speech into the IEP, saying it didn't have any educational impact. However, the teachers spoke up and said it discourages her from participating in class. In fact, Wynter had a teacher in the 5th grade that didn't know that Wynter had a speech problem. :surprise: You can't miss it. But, Wynter never talked in class.
  20. Sheila

    Sheila Moderator

    We don't disagree on this issue, Marti.

    When difficult child was in 3rd grade and had a 504 plan, he was denied speech-language therapy because he "didn't qualify" for an IEP under TEA's separate category via the initial evaluation process. "Significant discrepancy" formulas and all that business..... When I argued that it was also a related service for IEP and 504 students, I was told difficult child would have had to had qualified under specific learning disability for IEP to get it. (I think it was a sub-category under SLD, but can't recall exactly.) I do recall that we went round and round....

    I ended up pulling him out of school in the afternoons twice a week and taking him to private language therapy. I also filed a Complaint with-TEA, OCR and OSEP. (Speech-language therapy was just one issue of the Complaint). Shortly thereafter, TEA's policy changed, but I have no was of knowing if my Complaint directly had an impact on this issue. But we did end up with-language therapy as a related service 5x/week via an IEP thereafter. (Another case of if they'd just thrown mom a bone to begin with....)